OK.

Your attitude is telling me that you have swallowed this hook and so far you aren't compelled to regurgitate it.

I think it's safe to say the cliff has been pointed out and and you have been urged and entreated to turn away from it.

If you don't agree that the cliff exists or you think that what you are doing now will protect you from falling I can't convince you otherwsie and it's really disrespectfull to continue to try beyond a certain point.

At this point you are ARGUING with and resisting people telling you to withdraw from him and moving closer to him emotionally and with regard to defending him rather than judging the situation objectively.

So there's nothing more I can really offer you.

I think the cliff is there and that you are going over it.

I think we had a similar conversation last year when you "went to" this same place emotionally/mentally. I "feel" the same vibe from you.

When he offers you a crumb you gobble it eagerly and believe that NOW he is SURELY going to turn it around without waiting for him to ACTUALLY turn it around before you accept any more crumbs.

You are an adult who has all of the information and resources that I do so if you choose not to use them I will respect your decision.

Good luck, I'm stepping out.

I hope you can spend some time with that 13 yo girl of yours this weekend. Go to the movie, out to lunch...get out with her and 17 yo. Try to have some fun and find some joy this weekend. Maybe you could make cookies and get some funny movies.

Gotta come out of the darkness and pain for awhile, and your kids deserve some happiness from you. They can't be happy without that.

I know if my little girl were here with me this weekend, that's what we would be doing.

There's nothing wrong with being sympathetic. It shows you're human and care. Just don't let that act as an excuse to accept inexcusable behavior. That's where your boundaries come in.

I know my wife would divorce me in the blink of an eye if I even came close to more acts of infidelity. Regardless of any other circumstance. I understand and admire that stance.

Selfish, self-centered and self-absorbed are described in SA behavior. We're not talking about different things, just causes and perhaps frequency. Isn't that what needs to be done? Find out what the initial causes are for behavior and change those? Stop the final act before it becomes a thought?

Selfish, self-centered and self-absorbed can all be used as excuses too. I imagine we'd want the person to not exhibit those behaviors either. We might even want them to seek help in changing them. Another basic requirement of the WS before trust can be restored.

How comfortable would anyone be if they were told. "I have no idea why I cheated on you, but I just know it won't happen again. There's nothing I need to do to prevent it, I have my own will power. Now....let's go get some Sushi."


RLT - I really hope you've discovered a path to your own healthy life. Once your husband has changed, if he does, what are you going to do? Is becoming a nervous wreck worrying about his stuff healthy for you? What have you done to be proud of yourself lately?

These are rhetorical questions to hopefully help you change your focus. He's a mess that you can't do anything about. Only he can change his path.

I would encourage you to handle the polygraph yourself. That way you won't question who he has chosen or whatever. It should be someone you're comfortable with, not the potential ad a dart hit.

I recommend meeting with the tester in a prior appointment to do the initial work on forming the questions. It's not as easy as you might think. Most likely, your questions won't be usable and you'll need help forming them.

If nothing else, the polygraph is a tool to get the purge beforehand. Not only does the test itself record fear, it also generates it in those who are hiding things.

The appointment to do the test should take at least 2 hours. Plan on 3. If the tester indicates they can do it more quickly, look elsewhere.

Also...I'm curious. If you don't mind, please take note as to whether his cardio is flat.

This is easier than actually having to change. It's fear and an unwillingness to implement any changes of your own. If it is an SA, that takes all the burden off of you, rlt. Your WH can fix his addiction, with no actual changes being made by you.

As wind said, if it is an addiction (and I know nothing about SA) that not only would your WH have to stop his sick behavior, but you would have to not have your identity wrapped up in his.

And you do, this is why what other people are thinking or saying is so important to you. What the OW is thinking of you, what his parents are thinking of you. And why you didn't boot him out and make him prove first that he was worthy of being married to.

For a healthy individual who has a healthy identity of their own, they wouldn't give a rats *ss what these people thought. They would know they are a respectable, loveable person. They are more concerned with what they themselves think of the people they let into their lives, than what others are thinking of them.

Just some things to think about. We who are reading here can see that had you kicked his rump out after he told you all those horrible things...you would have expeerienced growth that you are not likely to experience now. You would have learned boundaries, who you are, how to tell if someone else is blowing smoke up your butt, etc.

And he would have had no choice but to rise to the occasion if he wanted to be with you again.

Your dark, confused, uncertainty would have been ended. You would have been dealing with something a whole lot healthier than what you are now.

Does that make sense? I almost hope that he fails, so you can experience what it feels like to be strong, confident, loveable...

And so that should you reconcile you will know that he is a changed man. You deserve that. And it's going to be hard now to ever know that about him, because you do not have the boundaries in place you need to have to even trust yourself.

And so you would see that regardless of the choices other people make, including the person you choose to be married to...you are responsible for spreading Gods light and love, especially to your children, and those whose happiness is affected by your own.

These are the blessings and responsibilities we have been given as adults...

And I believe that even in the Bible it says "protect your heart".

I don't mean to beat you up here...I want you find happiness. The kind of happiness that another person can not take away from us, at least not for very long.

I should have written all this before my last post where I told you to try and find some happiness this weekend. But I did sincerely mean it.

And yes you do have a right to choose not to decide right now...I think we all feel that you are making it hard on yourself to be able to say no later, though.

You're completely right, weaver, when you say that I have a problem in worrying about what other people are thinking. That's low self-esteem.

At this moment, I am fretting over what most here at MB are thinking of me.

Look, right now on MB I am between a rock and a hard place. If I tell you any ACTIONS that Mr. RLT is making to address his problems, I am perceived as defending him and enabling him.

If I utterly agree with everything you say, I'm expected to immediately kick him out to the curb.

Boundaries--we're in separate bedrooms. I am not doing a whole lot for him. I am not making his appts., etc.

I let him talk to me yesterday, and I get slammed. Believe it or not, I was pretty unemotional. I never cried, never LB'd, I pretty much just listened.

See, Mr. RLT is dammed if he do and dammed if he don't, too.
For post after post, everyone says nothing can happen until he is completely honest with me.

Then, he starts talking, and he's STILL not doing it right.

I know you think you already have, but please, give me a chance here, guys.

If this IS SA, then it's a whole new ball of wax.

No, it's not...it's a whole new excuse for his behavior.

And he said a long time ago he was being honest...he wasn't.
NOW, he admits that he isn't telling you everything...and yet you allow this to continue.
.
It is very sad to watch an abuser pull his victim back in for another round. I feel sorry for you at this point RLT. Your weakness for his bs is tearing you and your family up. Did you ever stop to think that your children would be better off living in a home filled with harmony and not the mess they have been residing in for all of their lives. Maybe your oldest would even come home if the liar left.

I for one will no longer enable this behavior. I have offered all that I can to you here...continuing is a waste of my time and energy if you are not interested in helping yourself. I will take the route that at least one other poster has done and step out of this. I cannot stand to see you self destruct any longer. I genuinely wish you well RLT.

I hear you. I think most of us here are more concerned with YOU than Mr. RLT.

At what point does the reversal start? Today? Tomorrow? I think it's already started for you and hopefully for him. Most of us want you to protect yourself from any more hurt.

I get that you love him and that you want your marriage. That you have hope. And that's your decision to make. Personally, I don't know if I could handle it b/c my DH (FWH) only had TWO affairs and it nearly destroyed us.

But if this is what you want, then, speaking for myself, I'll be here for you. I hope others will too.

This is what I'ma gonna do,

When I'm done posting here, I'm gonna take a shower. Then I'm gonna come back to my computer. I'm gonna turn on the classical music station. Then I'm gonna go to documents and open up my novel in progress, the one has been left on the back burner because of all this crap. And I'm just gonna write.

I'm not going on recovernation right now because I just don't feel like it. I don't have the energy, or the inclination right now.

I'm gonna take care of the kids, the animals, and myself.

thanks, princessmeggy

Sounds like a good plan to me.



I think a lot of you. That's why I keep thinking about your situation, I even went over it in length with my H last weekend...I was so worried we are being too hard on you.

I've been where you are, only for six years and not with my DD's dad... but I know the confusion and the desire to protect and to believe.

So I am going to keep on posting and saying what comes to my mind, unless you ask me not to.

I have already been supportive of you and guess what? You are still with him. So you have my support regardless...however I must call it as I see it. Actually, I've been holding back. LOL

RLT, I really feel for you in a big way. I woke up this morning thinking of your situation, and have prayed for you many times today. My prayer is that God will guide you through the decisions you must make. And yes I agree, you do not have to decide now. The horrible things you have learned appear to mostly be from long ago; there is no need to put yourself under the tremendous pressure of kicking him out this instant, unless you WANT to, then of course you have that right. The way I see it, you have lived in a hellish situation for quite some time, and you survived it. It appears that there is at least a CHANCE things are improving now; I sure don't see how they could be getting worse.
It does appear that some would give you you the ol' "damned if ya do, damned if ya don't", but RLT, please do not let a group of strangers on a message board make you feel any less about yourself and your decisions. This place is wonderful for giving a sense of community, and enabling you to see things from a different persepctive, but we do not live your life ; we do not know all the intricacies of why you may or may not need to save this marriage and exactly how you may best do that. There are no cookie-cutter answers in real marriages with real people with real imperfections.

The one thing I would say to you which is probably controversial, is that whether or not this is an addiction, you do not have to respond any differently. Personally I hate addiction excuses; I even hate to see someone call themselves a recovering alcholic when they have not had a drink in 30 years.I do not define people by their sin of choice nor by whatever "holic" they are "diagnosed" as. All of us are either choosing each day whether to sin or not to sin, and I would not let actions which I had long forsaken be my identity today.
If I used to smoked 5 packs of cigarettes a day, but haven't smoked in 20 years, I am not a smoker nor will I introduce myself as a recovering smoker, but that is a rabbit trail.

My big thing is owning our actions, owning our choices. There are no excuses.

Whether Mr RLT has acted out sexually just because he could, or because he felt compelled by something seemingly chemistry-induced, in the end it is all the same. These actions have hurt you and you have the perfect right to choose what you will and will not accept in your life.
God bless you as you navigate this jungle. You are not alone.

weaver, I do truly appreciate your posts, and your deep concern for me and my family. And I welcome your continued posts. Thank you.

setfree, thank you also for your continued concern and for your prayers. I agree with you on addiction excuses. It doesn't really matter what you label it. The fact is, whatEVER it is, he is still hurting other people.

Every marriage is different, every dynamic, every situation, unique.

I'm not really responding any differently. The way some are posting, one would think that because he says, I'm a sex addict, that I am now holding his hand and walking him through it.

I'M NOT.

I told him last night this was his deal to walk through, and that he'd have to do it alone. I AM keeping my distance. And actually, I'm feeling pretty darn good about it right now, despite the criticisms I'm getting.

I dunno what else to say.

Good observation Setfree. It's really not about the addiction, it's about the present and future.

The real issue, is whether the bad behavior is recognized, something is being done about it, and it isn't repeated.

None of that stops the hurt from the past actions. Nor does it excuse them.

rlt,

You know I'm here for you whenever & in whatever form you need me to be. My H & I will continue to help both of you off the boards like we have been doing if that's what you & Mr. want. Still continuing to pray for both of you.

thanks, ST.

RLT, I haven't posted to you before, but you stay on my mind and on my heart. I have to reference the "twinkie" defence on this. In Steel Magnolia's a reference was made that the only thing that separates us from the animals is our ability to accesorize. Surely to God , not. This "ADDICTION" he has has to be addressed on his part, not incuded as a way of his life. I have arthritis and fibromyalgia, and as it is a way of life, I continue to seek out cures. He has got to enter into any program available to him to change his life style. He can't use any excuse for his unfaithfulness. He needs to give you a plan, as painful as it may be for him and stick to it.
I will pray for him and for your healing. Perhaps a 12 step program could work for him. The excuses have to stop. he does have to step up and decide what he really wants in his life. If it isn't you, let him know you will go on and have a happy life and find a man who can be faithful, and let him know what he has done to his kids. May God show you happiness and mercy to him.

Going Forward,

Thank you for this post.

I will pray for you tonight.

Thank you for your prayers. If I walk without a limp tomorrow, if my muscles don't ache, I will thank your in MY prayers. I will, anyway. My point is, if something will
cause you to suffer, you will do ANYTHING to stop the bleeding. Mr RLT, please, YOU are the only one who can stop your wife's pain. Please, in the name of "God, stop her pain! I am a hopeless cripple, but my H is now seeing my pain as something that God put on me. It is a fact of life, he sees how I cope with it daily. When I have good days, I am working at church, I am playing hymns, he sees that i am looking forward to my after life. And as a Christian, he knows that we will be together in eternity. So many people just go on just living in the 'FLESH" Mr. RLT is so much better than that. Mr. RLT, will you eat vomit or steak? This is your choice. A good woman's price is above rubies. Mr. RLT, can you say, " This is my beloved and this is my friend"? See her as your beloved...for your own sake. In Jesus' name I end this post.

RLT,

I am praying for you to find some peace and tranquility in your daily life.

I remember being where you are now. Granted our false recovery was very short lived (less than 2 months), I know that whirling, overwhelming feeling you are having.

I suggested that you have your H leave so that you could move past that feeling. I didn't realize how important that was until my H left on his own. After a few weeks of him being gone, my life became more tranquil and I could think more clearly. It is so much easier to see what needs to be done when WS is removed from our daily lives. Now I am able to formulate a plan that is healthy for me, that focuses on my needs and my recovery. This plan doesn't exclude him if he ever truly desires to return. But by removing him from the picture, healthy boundaries for me became much more obvious.

It still seems to me that this is what is in your best interest. But I am not you, and your H is not mine. I can only share what I have learned in my very short journey. I have peace again, my kids have peace again. We are laughing together again. NONE of us had that while WS was still in the home.

I certainly acknowledge that we each must follow our own paths, and I will "love you" through whatever path you choose, as I am sure most MBers will. We will be here for you, but our hearts break when we watch the agony you are in, and believe it could be relieved with a few tough, but simple, actions on your part.

(((((((((((RLT))))))))))))