Summary: After working for a year trying to recovery from an affair and secret porn, he is caught doing porn again. I asked him to stay away from me, if he fixes his mess he can knock at my door and see if I am still interested. He is trying through a workshop at chuch. I am 4 months pregnant.
This was a week ago

Things continue more or less the same
We went together to the pregnancy control appointment
He squezzed my hand during the sonogram (I always get very emotional during sonograms) and I squezed back. But that was it
In our way to the hospital he told me about his day, conversations he had with his boss and co-workers, etc

I didn't feel like having that type of familiarity, but I listened. I don't feel like being aggresive to him, but I don't feel like being close friends either

Getting used to being alone was easier than I suspected. although I think being pregnant uses a lot of my mind, so that might be helping alot as well.

I think I care less about him that I used to. I wander if I am falling out of love.I feel the person I do love doesn't exist, I thought it was this man, but this one is a different one, one I don't like.

If it is true he is living a double life, I don't know which one is real and I don't think I am able to separate them both.

Everything is getting colder, emotions are less intense. I still cry at times for the lost dreams
In one of my dream he was the one receiving the baby and we had a trio hug on overjoy for feeling like a family, so happy for the new life we created.
Now, I haven't decided if I want him there with me or in the waiting room.
I also cry because this should be such a happy time for both of us. He is paying for the consequences of what he did
What am I paying for?

We'll se what happens, he continues going to the church and he told me he is completing a workshop.

He told me he is trying not to get in panic for the short time he has (March is due date for baby delivery) because if he does he won't be able to do this right.

I think when the time comes closer I'll have to re-eveluate things and also seriously prepare myself to be able to evaluate where is he at

What are REAL sign of recovery?

Your personal recovery for you should come 1st. Let him know he needs to STOP BABBLING.

Babbing: He told me he is trying not to get in panic for the short time he has (March is due date for baby delivery) because if he does he won't be able to do this right.


Let him know you can see right through the babbling and anymore of this type of babbling makes him look stupid and foolish.

L.

I understand what you are saying

To be fair, however, he always preface his conversations with "I know my words have absolutely no value and that only my actions will prove who I really am"

He is not asking me to believe anything he says
And I dont
When and if he comes to me saying,I am ready, let me show you who I am, I'll have to be ready to identify real sign of recovery (he calls it transition, maybe a church term)

It is possible also, that that workshop will not work, I am not sure how it works, but knowing other church based workshops, they must be guiding him and encourage him every step of the way
I read that people like him thrive on that setting, because SOMEONE ELSE is helding them accountable
Instead he might need to participate in one that expects nothing from the participant, where they are the only ones helding themself accountable

In any case, I am bitting my tongue not to interfere, it needs to be his journey, his path, his destination, his choice.

I am sure he will not be ready by March, I need to make tough decisions as to the delivery of my baby. Even before that, I need to make tough decisions as to who will be with me WHILE I choose the method and train for it.

In the mean time I miss us so much, I broke down really bad last night
I have to admit that while him talking to me about his efforts doesnt really do anything and doesnt get us any closer, it does good to my heart.

He talked to me this morning and my spirits are lighter
Hey, whatever works.

You are doing fine. Just keep concentrating on preparing for your baby.

The decision of who will be with you at the birth is yours alone to make. So do some thinking on that.

He is a clever one but still a foolish one, so what I see is babble.

Here's a sample of a BS reverse babble (RB) response:

WS: Don't believe what I say, just what I do. (blah...blah...blah).

NOTE: let him think you believe this.....then respond...

BS: Well that is good to hear you say it but as you just said, since I can't believe what you said....well the vicious circle has begun..... you are now have the choice to chase your tail and keep babbling or change your course and show us you are worth listening to. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

See the strength in that response? Either way you have exposed his tactic and forced him to decide with out committing yourself to any changes.

Remember he needs to make changes. U R pregnant and need to take care of yourself and your baby. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

L.

I am confused
I know I need to use his actions and not his words
But, how do I do that?
I mean, I should not talk to him?
What actions am I looking for?

Now, as part of my update, I need to set the record straight
I thought, or assumed he was doing a program at church
No, he is attending church as part of his own inner search, he feels he needs to do that
The workshop he is completing is actually recoverynation
Just thought I would clarify that

I am very calm now, you can tell by the frequency of my posts. The more distress I experience, the more often I need to post.

I am not waiting om him, although I believe it would be nice if we can end up together. I just don't know how will I know If I can run a the risk with him
I also don't know how will I heal the wounds, which is my work, not his

I am trying, very slowly to do the recovery nation partner's side, but it really very painful, taking care of my baby, researching about healthly pregnancy and delivery options is just so much better. This is my emotinal vacation from it all, and it is great!

I decided I am allowing him to be at the delivery and participate, not as my husband,I told him, as my partner and friend. I trust he will do a great coach

We went together to see cribs and I really had a good time
All we talked about was the baby and the nursery setting, I was able to enjoy the "look at this, how cute" and the "what is this for?" Half way he asked me if I was confortable, I am having a good time, he added, are you ok?
I said, yes, I am doing fine

Everything else is fine

Please help me understand how my interactions with him should be. I am not even close to allow him to date me. But it seems I am still giving him too much credit?

Orchid is giving you examples of her reverse babble which comes in very handy. Sounds like you are doing just fine.

But if he gets foggy, you can learn from Orchid how to respond.

Let's see, delivery options...... I had both of my sons with natural childbirth - a bit overrated. But they both came out extremely healthy - 10 on the Apgar scale.

Yes, you do need to see his actions and not put any stock in his words. I thought when your husband said "to believe in his actions not his words", I agree with that. Now, if he were to continue to say this and at the same time not be making any kind of true changes that you can see, then yeah, I would consider that just babble and lip service.

Your H is brand new to RecoveryNation. One of the thing they teach in early recovery is to not pressure the spouse to trust them again because that is out of their control. So, they teach them to focus on themselves and concentrate on becoming trustworthy. So the only thing he can do is show you through his actions. You may never be able to trust him again. He cannot hang his recovery on how you feel. So when he said to watch his actions, I believe this is what he was also thinking. At least I hope so. Something you can discuss with him if you want.



I think talking is extremely important. It is important for both of you to work through some of these issues together. Not too much at once. Just whatever you can both handle at any given time. I find it necessary to know what my husband is feeling and thinking so I can feel close to him and share in his life. When we do this, I can also see how he has changed. He has a whole new outlook on a lot of things, mostly regarding what kind of values he has and his behavior is mostly in line with that. I check to see if they are in line with mine also. If there's a discrepancy, we talk about it.

Discuss his betrayals. He needs to find out why he did those things so you can know he won't do them again. He needs to tell you what he plans to do to protect himself from ever cheating on you again.

Some other actions you are looking for is transparency. He needs to offer you all his passwords to anything he has. He needs to check in with you and be even more transparent if you need it and it's humanly possible.



That is one of the best steps he could have taken. Also on RN, they tell you not to rush the recovery process so you can really think about and practice what they're trying to teach you. However, watch for complacency. If he starts to feel things are going well and stops, well that's an obvious problem.



Your fears are certainly valid but I feel it's too soon to tell if it's worth the risk. You are both pretty new to RN but if it were me, I'd watch and see if he is showing real change. If he's not, you don't have to waste any more of your time. I don't think there's anything wrong with waiting until the baby is born surely. The right time is when you know it's time. You'll know it. As long as he is making real changes, you've got more time. Remember, you don't have to make any decisions right now. If he truly loves you, he'll give you the time you need to work this out for yourself. And it's also o.k. if you want to end up together as long as it is becoming a healthy relationship for you. Only you can decide if it's healthy for you.



I don't agree that it is not also his work. The best advice I can give you for your deep down pain is to get and read the book, "How Can I Forgive You", by Janis Springs. It hits the target on what your husband can do to help you with all of this pain.



I understand how painful it is. I know I am working it very slowly for the same reason. Mostly because I am just so numb still. Not even sure I have the energy to bring it all up and write it all down because it all seems so overwhelming. There is just so much!

Emotional vacations are vital to your health. Take them as needed. Then call me in the morning.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />



I think him asking you if you were o.k. is a wonderful sign of caring and compassion. But remember, if you are not fine, at a time when you are ready, share with him why you are not. I know it's hard to do but it's a two way street. You have to open up too, when you're ready.



I completely understand. I love my H but I sure don't like him very much right now. But I'm starting to like him a little more. Take your time, take your time. As far as credit? Give credit where credit is due. If you see good and decent behavioral changes in him, I would let him know. It is good encouragement for them.

However, I sometimes have a problem with giving my H credit because these new behaviors of his should have been present a long time ago. Last week I asked him if he wanted a hero cookie for becoming the husband he should have always been in the first place, and that's only talking about loyalty for goodness sakes.

I give my H credit when I see he is really trying. I would recomend checking out the RN partner's lesson on what "true recovery" will look like in an addict. I was happy to learn about that so I could see some of the signs.

Do you think the RN lessons will be helpful for you? Have you read any of the stuff in his lessons to learn a little more about it? Just curious. I know you probably haven't had time with the baby and the disclosures and all, silly me. But when you do get time, it helps.

Take care.

Thank you

He left on a church trip this weekend (Recounter with Jesus is called)
He volunteer the communications he had with the church, trip brochures and the receipt for what he paid for it
He gave me phones numbers and contact names

With the first affair happened, he did the same, he volunteered all passwords, confirmations, would call me from land lines and never got offfended or defensive when I doubted him or quiestioned him

But, here I am again, I guess he just got more carefull, I can not find any evidence of anything (and I am computer literate) of even of the page I know he visited. I did put the key logger and everything is the regular stuff, pay bills, research for work, read his email (which I have access to).

He tried to babble yesterday saying "I don't want this anymore, I am too old for this" I replied: you were too old for this last time as well. You are right, he said.

It really sucks.
We are cordial to each other and continue sharing on the pregnancy and delivery planning

Now, I guess because he was leaving but this morning when he woke me up to say goodbye (I asked him to) I broke down real bad

I cried that it was so difficult not knowing even what to hope for. I cried that we miss us or what I thought we were about. He approach, very carefully and I just hugged him. I felt embarrasad of myself, this man has caused me so much damage and here I am crying because he is leaving for two days?
Still I couldn't contain myself and we make out (nothing sexual) for some reason I could't allow him to kiss me in the mouth. Everything happened like it wasn't me but I was a third party observer
Now I regret I did that, what will be his motivation if he can get that close anyway?

After that, I felt compelled to clarify. "This doesn't mean..." He interrupted me, "I know, I doesn't mean you have decided to stay with me"
No, it doesnt, I replied, have a good time on your trip and I hope you find what you are looking for

I love you, he said. That is something else I can not do. Say I love you or walk holding hands.

I want to re-focus. It was just easier when I was considering myself already single.
If we ended up together great, if not, great as well

But because I decided to allow him to share with me, I am all a mess. Right now I am ok, I am looking forward a me-weekend. But I want to create some distance when he comes back. too much familiarity, it makes me weak

Dear Believr
If you don't mind me asking, in what you feel is natural birthing overrrated? If you had another kid, would you choose hospital birthing instead? Thanks

Oh, TotallyLostNow, that was just kind of tongue in cheek. I had both of my boys by natural childbirth, which was the popular thing twenty some years ago. I was blessed that they both came out very healthy.

With my first son, everything was easy. The second one was induced because they thought he was distressed, and he was born in the hallway on the way to the delivery room. The whole thing only took a half hour. But it was difficult and I didn't even want to hold him. I think most of it was my mental state because I was so worried about him.

Nowdays I hear all the mom's where I work talk about getting a spinal block, and it sounds good to me. I don't know if that is just as good for the baby or not.

Take your time and figure out what YOU want. I did the Lamaze classes and they really helped.