Change a few words (alcholic to abusive, etc) and boy do you hear my story. Throw in parental divorce, having to be responsible for younger siblings because of it, sexual molestation by family member as a child...no wonder I NEEDED to avoid conflict and my self esteem was/is off! And carry that forward as an adult. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Changing to be an un-enabler (is there such a word?) is the challenge!

How do you put the past hurts/wrongs in the past and become the strong person we all need to be?

The way I did it was to put past hurts/wrongs in the past and stop picking the wound. I had to accept that I was a big girl now and was fully responsible for my own happiness as an adult. No more looking back and blaming others for my shortcomings. No more self pity. All that self pity was just a diversion so I wouldn't have to look honestly at myself.

I became strong by stopping enabling and by taking decisive action when appropriate. Conflict avoidance keeps a person weak and vulnerable because it sends the message that I can't take care of myself. Strength comes FROM action, not the other way around. I also think that enablers seek approval outside of themselves, much like a teenager, which keeps them on a treadmill that goes nowhere and leads only to frustration.

That was me to a tee. XH still can't pay his bills on time that I know of (well at least not until recently - I haven't got a NSF notice at the house for a while but I used to get several of those and collection notices every month). During the M, I managed all of this for the better of the family.

If not for me doing this, we'd never have been able to buy a house, save any money, open a business...

I suppose I don't regret that much, but it wasn't right that I felt I "had" to do this.

It is a fine line indeed.

The statement that these people are with enablers for a *reason* is quite enlightening. VERY enlightening.

Thank you!

JinGA

Thanks!
Ace

MVG....Ok I will throw those in. Dad was abusive and my parents were D'd as well. LOL Thanks for making me throw those in. LOL.

Jinga....A person that needs an enabler finds an enabler. A selfish person that doesn't want to be responsible will find someone who will be as their partner. It is the Yin and the Yang. The whole opposites attract thing. Just in a much more unhealthy manner.

Ace... I would then say that as far as EN's are concerned that Admiration, and Appreciation would be two top needs but is that unhealthy. To look for outside validation of your accomplishments?

IMVHO the best way to stop being an enabler is to end the relationships you have that you are an enabler.

I have found that in most realationships that I have stopped enabling the other person, it usually slowly dies.

If you can't do that then you need to ween the other person off of your enabling behavior.

It isn't easy.... the other person will resist... Tell you that you have changed... You are not as "Nice" as you used to be... But as you continue to tell them You Broke It.. You Fix it, they will understand that you won't fix it anymore.

One caveat don't say that unless you are willing to move forward with it never getting fixed....

Hey Frog & Melody, Thanks! It's hard to see yourself as an enabler when you are trying so hard to just be the "good guy". And Frog you're so right, they don't like the not so nice person now! But it's such a lighter load to carry truly what is only yours to carry.

Melody, I don't know that I can totally accept your perspective, however I do see there is a time for the past to be the past and move on.

I AGREE!!!

Ace

I've seen some interesting things on this thread. I more or less get the point the enabling is when you are assisting someone in doing something destructive, and being a cheerleader is supporting someone in doing something positive.

But I don't find it as simple as that.

I've struggled immensely in my M with this "fine line". Or the "happy medium" if you want to call it that. IME, what makes this confusing is that most times an action one takes can't be defined as supporting or enabling based solely on that action. As an example, I was always supportive of my WW's career. The actions or what I did in being supportive of her career never changed. But somehow, many years ago the result changed from being supportive to being enabling. The same activity was good for my M for many years, then became destructive.

Some of the other examples people have described I think of as the "greater good" dilema. You act in a way that covers for one person and for a time it is supportive. But somehow over time it becomes enabling.

I've pondered both of these and considered that the solution must lie in being able to accurately predict will someone use/recieve your actions in a supporting or enabling way.

Unfortunately, I have been unable to develop those accurate predictions.

Not sure that's always true.

People born into families where enabling is endemic, grow up thinking that what they're doing is supportive and good, and see themselves as selfish if they refuse to 'help', 'rally round', 'stick together', etc. The family reacts with such hurt and anger if a member refuses to conform to family 'values', a child automatically sees such non-conformist behaviour as bad. They think well of themselves if they conform.

And, of course, such a child takes the same enabling behaviour and expectations into other relationships. It's only when the enabling leads to disaster that they have any reason to look at their own contribution to the crisis.

TA

TA exactly right for me. I had no fear that I can identify as to why I enabled. I just learned that was how to deal with interpersonal relationships.

After I figured it out I looked back at past relationships and there it was the whole time.

When I look back at my M there it was all the time.

I do think that enabling is a learned behavior. Some may learn it because of their fear. Possibly the fear of losing that person or being alone?

Interesting. In my situation, for example, I managed the household finances because I was good at it - and XH was content to let me do so. After a while, it became a burden as he was complaining about money (that there wasn't any), and I was trying to show him where it all went... and he wasn't interested.

I guess at that point or somewhere in there, it went from doing my part to, "enabling". When I was taking extra jobs on the side to make ends meet, and he was complaining that I was never home... and didn't want to hear that his finding a better paying job or taking on other work too, would have eased the situation - THEN it was definitely enabling.

The irony is it came back to bite me in the butt...

Yep it's one thing to 'job share' in a marriage when one person is good at something or prefers to do it - it's another thing when it's cast upon them or when that one partner feels compelled to do it 'or else'.... or else risk cleaning up the other person's mess.

Is the difference between an enabler and a co-dependent this?...

An enabler feels compelled to clean up the other person's mess, thus making it easy/enabling the other person to keep making messes...

A co-dependent feels that they *must* do this or that, regardless of the other person's ability to do it themselves? In other words, if I looked after the finances because I felt I must, even though XH could have done it himself willingly, would that make me co-dependent? Seeking another's approval or feeling that I *had* to take care of them?

Learning lots from this thread.

JinGA

Don't they go hand in hand?

For me I am a codependant, enabler with conflict avoidence issues.

The irony for me is that once you try to quit enabling in this kind of sitch you become percieved as nagging or a control freak.

FWIW - I've always viewed codependent is being someone who derives their self worth from the success or well being of another. In that sense, I would view more as people who are codependent are more like to cross the line between support and enabling.

That is why I think each case is a little different. I did the finances and still do.

The enabler let the FWW spend money and then went about fixing the problem. IF the FWW wanted something and I said we couldn't afford it I was accused of being controlling. So I gave in, conflict avoidence. It was a horrible cycle.

Now I do the finances with the understanding I am not being controlling. I am not sayin no she can't buy this that or the next thing. THE BANK is. We also have the understandign that at any point she can take over ALL of the responsibilities of finances at any time she would like to.

So far she likes me being in control of the finances. Since I am better at it.

No more fights over me checking the accounts on a regular basis and asking about a debit from the accounts.

Since this understanding has gone into full effect we are getting very close to being debt free.

We would actually be there but I needed a car and I rufused to finance it so that was a chunk of change I didn't expect.

Now I simplified the process we fought a lot about it. No POJA on this one. So at the same time I was trying to deal with my enabling I had to deal with my Conflict Avoidance.

Frog,

Would you consider CA a big part of enabling? Could fear of conflict be one of the fears being investigated?

LA

There's a lot of grey areas that I can see.

I think women become co-dependents and enablers by conditioning to a point - we're taught to nurture and take care of others... and that may be well and good but when it crosses that imaginary line, it becomes destructive.

I wasn't a conflict avoider, per se. I don't like conflict (does anybody? Wait - I have a friend that picks a fight with her H at every opportunity!)... but I'm not afraid of it and I'm not afraid of negotiating - and reading about POJA and enacting it has been very empowering.

My XH was a conflict avoider, big time. He'd deny there was anything to talk about, avoid talking about it, tell me he wasn't in the mood to talk about it and just procrastinate the issue until (he hoped) it blew over. Not a good way to settle things, in fact that probably "helped" me blow up more times than I ever needed to.

I don't blow up anymore. I can negotiate. I can set boundaries and stick to them, and I can surround myself with people capable of taking care of their own junk, and when our junk intertwines, I/we can figure out the best way to do things that's enthusiastically embraced by those concerned.

Hey... I'm learning <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

It is interesting though how these personality types do tend to attract one another, and feed off one another. Learning lots about where I've been in this thread - and a lot about where I'm going <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

JinGA

Good catch.

Yes CA is a big part of enabling, at least for me.

Part of my enabling wasn't calling my FWW on BS. To expand if she said well it will be fine because I will ..... Even if .......was a bunch of crap and I knew she wouldn't do it! I avoided going any further. In essence I would be calling her a liar if I questioned her. This enabled her to make decesions based on future actions, on her part, that she wasn't going to do and I just stopped there. Pretty much knowing that if it turned out bad that was ok with her because I would pick up the pieces.

Now she will try that and I say nope. So by not worrying about the conflict that may arise I can enable my self not to enable her.

The hardest part is I enabled her to continually make bad decesions because I dealt with the consequences.

I'm checking into that, too, TA. It may be a concept that has different applications.

Thanks,
Ace

P.S. Rprynne....good to see you back. You posted on one of my early threads and I truly appreciated it, even if I can't recall on which thread....may have been about dumping triggers.

But TA....this is where the fear is learned. You described the environment where this fear becomes reality perfectly.

I learned to enable in a very similiar environment.

But the message I received, the lesson I learned, was that taking care of me was selfish, enabling (which is really an aspect of controlling) others was virtuous.

When enablers don't achieve the results expected - the resulting blow to self is very deep. Resentment and anger grows, along with a belief that if I was really good enough, if I had just done things better...the outcome would have been what I desired.

The enabler (controller) mistakenly believes that he or she has far more power and influence over situations and people than he or she really has. So...with all that imagined power...when the outcome doesn't match the desired objective...it becomes the enabler's failure.

If I had just been good enough...if I was a better person...if I was prettier...if I was funnier...everything would have worked out!

Martyrs...are enablers. They do far more than their share of the work - unselfish, virtuous in their own eyes. But when others take them for granted and simply take advantage...the martyr doesn't say: It was my choice to do all of that work, but next time, I'll simply take care of my responsibility.

The martyr (enabler, controller) says: I worked SO HARD so EVERYONE ELSE could have a good time and NO ONE APPRECIATED ME....those selfish jerks...next time I'll show them...I won't lift a finger and then they'll SEE how wonderful I was...THEN they'll be sorry...

Or if the enabler is really messed up...like I was...all that anger and resentment is suppressed (must be GOOD at all times and ANGER is bad)...

But in either situation...

All along a little voice is whispering...if you were better, you would have been appreciated....

Btw, I don't think enabling is such a gray area. It is only really unclear when you are an unreformed enabler!

For example.

When my husband begged me to come home...I said yes after about a month of his demonstrating 100% effort and transparency.

My brother..who is a recovered alcoholic...had only been in the program for a few months.

Knowing my husband is an alcoholic, he called me and said: How can you let him come home, you are NOT letting him experience consequences!!!!

I said then, and I'll say it now to anyone wondering if they should take an action that enables....

*MY* responsibility is to myself and to my children. Their well being is FIRST. *MY* responsibility is NOT to enforce consequences on my husband...he is NOT my child.

So, I fulfill my obligations and take care of my children and my family as a whole. I have to do those things no matter what....even if it means that my husband is sometimes more comfortable.

So if a spouse doesn't pay the electric bill and your children are going to be without heat and electricity...you pay the bill. If your spouse doesn't pay the mortgage...you pay the mortgage...you don't let yourself and your kids be evicted and your credit ruined.

That is not enabling. Thats called taking care of what is YOURs to take care of.

Now what is also my responsibility, should I ever find myself in the above situation, is to go get the family resources that were withheld...which also means going to court...where consequences will happen. But the motivation is NOT to teach the other person a lesson. The motivation is to be a good protector, a good parent.

If my husband says he'll pick up my daughter from the bus every day at 3:15 and does not...my daughter is in danger. My obligation is NOT to force consequences to happen to him - the angry school calling to reprimand him, and fine us, and suspend her from the bus....my obligation is to make sure she is SAFE and retrieved from the bus every day. So I make arrangements with the other ladies at the busstop to collect my daughter, rather than risk her getting off the bus and being left alone on the street. Yes, it makes my husband's life easier. But my job is not to fix him, my job is to take care of my daughter.

(my husband does not do this btw, its just early and the only mundane thing I can think of).

It is the nature of a controlling enabler to fret about the consequences someone else might be avoiding! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

It is simple. I draw a circle around my feet. Anything inside is mine to care for the best way I can, even if it means that someone else benefits when they should not.

Everything else outside of the circle...well as long as I am inside...I can't interfere with natural life consequences happening to others in all other situations. I have to trust that God will take care of the consequences for everyone else, as long as I am doing what I need to do for my own stuff.

Mind your own business is the MOST POWERFUL lesson an enabler can learn.