D-Day was 7/13/07. WH confessed EVERYTHING by 8/12/07. No contact with OW since 8/16/07. I believe its over with her and there has been the 30 day w/d period. Last week more info came to light about an inapprop. flirtation with my sister a year ago.

I am staying steadfast and have read the books SAA and HNHN. My question is this.... how do I keep the hope alive in me/us during this time? I am struggling. I think what I am seeing/feeling now is what broke us down before. He is selfish and does not meet my needs. We have each completed the needs assessment and have had that discussion. I do not feel he is there for me yet emotionally (I realize this is normal).

As I write this I can see that I am likely expecting too much too soon. I just need some encouragement to hang in there. He says SAA saved our marriage, no doubt. Its the rebuilding and trust that I fear will never be the same or come to be what I need to sustain the marriage.

I know I am driving myself nuts, I question his every move internally and externally. I am trying not to check him all the time as it only provides a second of reassurance. This is killing me emotionally. I feel so sad and depressed and fearful. I have to pull it together for our 1 and 3 yo kids.

Give me practical advice to stay the course. SAA has worked thus far... I just feel I am fading in the process.

This board is unbelievably validating!

MK
together 10 years
married 7 years

Has he ended all contact with the OW? That is an important first step, Karen. Another is to spend 15 hours a week together meeting each others needs as he withdraws [and beyond] so that he draws TO you.

If all contact has ended and you are working this program, then there is hope.

You have come to the right place. We are ALL here because we have all been where you have.

Yes, you are driving yourself nuts. It's natural. You are human and you care about him. That is why you are thinking about what he MIGHT be up to all the time. You need to heal and healing takes time. 30 days is a mere drop in the bucket in terms of a lifetime with someone.

Be vigilant and keep a track of him to make sure he is telling the truth when he says it is over with the OW.

By you reading all you can here in MB, you are regaining the self-confidence that has been taken away from you when you found out. You are rebuilding it back up again and in time, this ugly episode in your M will fade. I promise you it will. Just give it time. If your H is committed to rekindling your M, you will work things out.

The best of luck to you in this trying time.

AB

thanks! this is a roller coaster ride! sometimes he is everything I need him to be and other times he's moody and appears to be struggling.... which is hard to deal with for me, understandable but hard. This is the encouragement I need to hear to keep going and focus on reconneting and building trust.

Its interesting as we have been in crisis mode since I foudn out and now I think we are stripped bare bones back to us and what made it go south in the first place, and what needs to change... question is can he do it and can I be patient enough to allow the process w/o letting fear take over. This part seems almost harder to me than the w/d period of the OW! How do I ever trust him again? It feels like a mountain in front of us.

I do feel like there is hope... its just harder than I thought it would be. I thought once the OW was out of the picture we'd rebuild and I'd feel so much releif and happiness about moving forward. Instead I feel worse....fearful and hypervigilant... anxious and angry....depressed and at times desparate to get rid of the pain this has caused. (not address the tough issues).

This place has some great ideas, validation, and encouragement. Thanks to all who post their stories.

God Bless. MK

Karen, has all contact ended with the OW?

Karen,



This is completely normal. You can see that with folks here whose S had their affairs decades ago and either just finally confessed or were just found out. The pain is as if it were yesterday and recovery takes a long time to achieve.

Don't get discouraged that you don't feel right yet. For one you can't go back to the way you used to feel. Your FWH's A has changed everything. You will be a new you and have a new marriage. Recovering from and affair can take from 2 to 5 years though so buckle yourself in and prepare for a bumpy ride, cause it is often very difficult. But it is worth it.

Who

Yes...as far as I can tell all contact has ended. Cell phone is visible, co workers know, they are on different shifts and whenever they have crossed paths no conversation since 8/16/07. It does stink b/c they do have to occassionally cross paths in a shift change but he's been honest (I feel) about this and how to best handle it.

Also her mother works with me (nice) and we have talked. She was not happy her daughter was having an affair with a married man more than 15 years older than her. Also the OW is still married even tho separated during the affair.

I believe its over.... I just am struggling to trust him again. I felt so betrayed and deceaved that I want to be hypervigilant now... not that that will prevent anything!
I am working plan A, just struggling to be patient w/ him. I am the queen of resolution and that is just not what I am going to get right away in this situation. I feel God continues to work on me learning to trust HIM and have patience. I need to just be OK with things not being just as I want them to be... for now.

Thanks for listening.... those in recovery give me hope. MK

Karen,


If you have been reading here, you already know that this isn't going to work with them still working at the same place. If he still sees her, it isn't really NC.

I know that this is tough, but unless your FWH is in a position to talk to HR and get OW transfered to another location or he can transfer to another location, he is going to need to get a new job. Your marriage will not recover as long as there is a chance that he may run into OW at work.

They will always remain vulnerable to restarting their A and you will never really feel the comfort level that you need to be able to rebuild any trust.

Many here have tried to do this and have failed.


Has the A been exposed to OW's BH?

Who

Well, as soon as contact ends, THEN recovery will begin. But there will be no recovery until all contact ends because he can't withdraw from her. He will be in a state of perpetual withdrawal and you will be looking at YEARS of an on-again, off-again affair.


So, its not over until ALL contact ends. This is like sending the "recovering" alcoholic into the bar every day and hoping he sobers by calling his drinks "business drinks" instead of booze. Booze is booze. And contact is contact. His feelings for her will stay rekindled until contact ends. And as long as his feelings stay rekindled, the OW will remain top of mind and he will never withdraw, never recover.

Dr. Harley in Coping with Infidelity: Part 2
How Should Affairs End?


Never see or communicate with a former lover

Once an affair is first revealed, whether it's discovered or admitted, the victimized spouse is usually in a state of shock. The first reaction is usually panic, but it's quickly followed by anger. Divorce and sometimes even murder are contemplated. But after some time passes (usually about three weeks), most couples decide that they will try to pull together and save their marriage.

The one having an affair is in no position to bargain, but he or she usually tries anyway. The bargaining effort usually boils down to somehow keeping the lover in the loop. You'd think that the unfaithful spouse would be so aware of his or her weaknesses, and so aware of the pain inflicted, that every effort would be made to avoid further contact with the lover as an act of thoughtfulness to the stunned spouse. But instead, the unfaithful spouse argues that the relationship was "only sexual" or was "emotional but not sexual" or some other peculiar description to prove that continued contact with the lover would be okay.

Most victimized spouses intuitively understand that all contact with a lover must end for life. Permanent separation not only helps prevent a renewal of the affair, but it is also a crucial gesture of consideration to someone who has been through ******. What victimized spouse would ever want to know that his or her spouse is seeing or communicating with a former lover at work or in some other activity?

In spite of career sacrifices, friendships, and issues relating to children's schooling, I am adamant in recommending that there be no contact with a former lover for life. For many, that means a move to another state. But to do otherwise fails to recognize the nature of addiction and its cure.

<snip>

We don't know if R.J. still sees his lover, but he says he has broken off all contact. In many cases where a person is still in town, that's hard to prove. But one thing's for sure, if he ever does see his lover, it will put him in a state of perpetual withdrawal from his addiction, and make the resolution of his marriage essentially impossible. In fact, one of the reasons he is not recovering after three months of separation may be that he is not being truthful about the separation.

Entire article at: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5060_qa.html

How to Survive an Affair chapter in HIS NEEDS, HER NEEDS
p. 177

...I have seen husbands build new and wonderful relationships with their wives but then go back to their lovers after five or six years of what appeared to be marital bliss. When I ask them why, they inevitably tell me they miss the woman terribly and still love her. At the same time they stoutly affirm they love their wives dearly and would not think of leaving them.

I believe a man like this has told the truth. He is hopelessly entangled and needs all the help possible to be kept away from his lover and stay faithful to his wife. I often recommend that a man once involved in an affair come in to see me every three to six months on an indefinite basis, just to talk about how things are going and to let me know how successfully he has stayed away from his lover. He must resign himself to a lifetime without her. HE MUST CERTAINLY NOT WORK WITH HIS FORMER LOVER AND SHOULD PROBABLY LIVE IN SOME OTHER CITY OR STATE. Even with those restrictions the desire for her company persists...

Karen, isn't his affair the WORST thing that has ever happened to you? Why wouldn't you want to do everything in your power to prevent it from happening again? There is no need to set yourself up for years more of this when recovery is possible by ending contact. Don't damn yourself to years more of this.

MelodyLane is absolutely right about no contact. That has to come before you can begin recovery or there will be no way to work on trust. You certainly can’t rely on what he tells you. He may get mad at you for insisting upon it, but he needs to make a choice. He can’t have both. Once there is no contact, visually or otherwise, you have a long, windy road ahead.

I understand completely about not being patient. I am the peacemaker in my family and am used to making peace within a day. This is not going to be anything like that. The struggle is long and hard, but you can do it if you want it to work.

Rely on your faith in God and your friends here at MB. It has been 10 months for me and I can see progress but may never trust him completely. What has helped me the most is to spend quality time with him alone and often. Keep finding new things to do together and keep doing them. He has to be willing to put your marriage first as well. The more time you spend together, the less time you have to worry. The roller coaster can swoop down when you least expect it. When it happens, come here - it has helped me gain enough strength to push me back up again. The pain will be there for a long time but it does very gradually get better.

Checking up on him will also aid in bringing some resolution. When something occurs that you question, check up on it right away so that you can dispose of the anxiety when you find out everything is okay and you can focus on creating new happy memories with each other.

Snuggle as much as possible. Hugs can do wonders and can help bring those good feelings back.

Do you have a friend nearby to bounce things off of when you are feeling really down? This has saved me on occasion. You may also want to try individual counseling. I did not do this and I think it may have helped me to move forward better and possibly to have refrained from LoveBusters when I kept hitting rock bottom.

Above all, don't give up if your H is trying. I am repeatedly reminded that men are not like us and do things differently. That is hard to be patient with so you have to look for other signs of progress like a new affectionate name that your H might call you or a small gesture that might mean he's trying. It's all baby steps now. Look for these little things and even write them down to read again later.

Keeping a journal can be very helpful to get out your frustrations or to record your progress so you can look back and see that you ARE moving forward.

Keep your chin up. We are all here with you. It will get better, just very very slowly.

MissKaren, is it impractical for your H to have absolutely no contact with this OW? What I mean is, they are both working at the same company but different shifts. No contact would mean someone has to leave; perhaps find another job and even move to a different community.

I agree with Melody and others about no contact period!! but sometimes that could be impossible. Is this the case in your situation?

Here is an example of what I mean. My W had an EA a year ago because of my not meeting her EN. Long story. Read my post in the General discussion emotional needs forum if you wish. Unfortunately in my case, my W has a contract at work she cannot break. The OM lives 100 miles away but due to work, my wife HAS to talk to the OM on occasion. This just cannot be avoided. There is no way around it other than my entire family moving to another city and my W being in breach of her contract.

This has caused some dilemma for me since how would I know that there is nothing going on behind my back? I have done my homework and my hyper-vigilance has proven otherwise. The issues I have now are not related to her affair. Their affair IS over.

The point I am trying to make is that I believe there should be no contact whatsoever but there could also be a lot of stress placed on a marriage if the situation is such that no contact is all but impossible.

Everyone advocates no contact and again, I agree, but sometimes that could be all but impossible given everyones different circumstances.

AB

Recovery is impossible with continued contact.

Hello misskaren,

I've little new to add to the good advice you have already been given except for some more of the encouragement that you asked for.

It's a really tough experience but you have to continually remind yourself why you are enduring it. You seem to have a firm grip on those reasons.

Unfortunately the pain sometimes prevents us BSs from taking the right action. It seems to paralyse us.

The only antidote is action.

As others have said, you don't have a chance until NC is firmly established and, from your posts, it isn't. You have to be strong and get one of them to leave their job. Exposure is one of the tools you have at your disposal. You will be worried about causing upset and making matters worse. Don't be. You are fighting for your marriage here. No holds barred.

Good luck to you.

AB, the only way it would be impossible is if he is an endentured servant, and I can honestly say I know of no such cases. Now, if he is an endentured servant and he truly can't leave, then she should be prepared to accept that recovery will be impossible and prepare herself for years and years of affair.

Some women can deal with it, but others end up having nervous breakdowns or suffering years of post traumatic stress disorder. [this is why Dr. Harley developed Plan B] It might not bother Karen, though.

I would find a way to end this even if it meant legally ending the contract or even having someone else at her company contact him. Recovery is impossible as long as she stays in touch with him. This is how 6 month affairs turn into 4, 6, and 10 year affairs. I hope you are prepared for that very probable eventuality. Ending contact is never impossible. It may be inconvenient, it is never impossible. What is impossible, is RECOVERY in these cases.

ML, In my case the hardship would be worse than what contact my W has now. That would mean we BOTH have to leave our jobs and move the kids out of school, sell the house and move to another city. The hardship in MY case would be too overwhelming for my W and I believe her emotional healing would suffer.

Her A happened a year ago and was for a very short period when we had problems and she was vulnerable. That was the fuel for the fire. The fuel is no longer present. The issues we had at the time are different than the issues we have now. I was naive but now I am vigilant.

The contact she has with him is very rare and it is solely to ask him a question about something. In fact, a few months ago, I happen to be sitting at the same table as the OM wife quite by accident and he was in the distance and saw us talking. I wonder if he thought I was discussing the A with her. They have been married for 35 years.

Please understand something. I absolutely agree that no contact is necessary for the healing process. There are many circumstances that come into play here too. The stress and upheaval of one's life to prevent any contact could be overwhelming and needs to be considered.

If a couple has lived in a community for a very long time. Works in the community, owns a house, kids at school, has friends and family etc. How can this couple just pick up and leave when they have established a life for themselves in order to ensure no contact with the OM/OW. It's much easier on paper but in reality it might not be that easy. I believe that if the M is not strong to start off with the very act of moving could cause more problems up to and including further affairs with someone else.

I might be the only one in MB with this point of view.

AB

Yes, we understand this, AB, but this is what must be done in order to recover the marriage. Recovery is IMPOSSIBLE unless contact ends. I think you imagine there is a way around this. And the hardship of a divorce and a recurring affair is much worse than moving and changing jobs to most folks. An affair is usually the absolute worst thing that can happen to someone. It is as traumatic as rape or the death of a child.

So, not taking steps to prevent a recurrance is pure folly. The inconvenience of a divorce and a recurring affair is much greater to most people than moving or changing jobs. Children are devastated by divorces.


There will be no emotional healing unless she ends contact with her affair partner. She will suffer as things are and is very likely to resume the affair. This is like sending the alcoholic into the bar every day and giving him drinks but expecting him not to get drunk. Inevitably, a moment of weakness collides with opportunity and he is drunk again. We have seen it happen over and over again.

Just as an alcoholic can't ever recover while he drinks, neither can a wayward recovery while she continues contact.


Unfortunately, I don't think you understand the danger of an affair to your marriage. Affairs are overwhelming. They are stressful. Divorce is overwhelming; it is stressful. Lives are ruined from affairs. Children's lives are ruined from divorce.


They do it all the time in order to protect their marriage because they understand the real danger of continued contact. I am afraid you don't understand this, AB.


Yes, thats because it is very bad advice that contradicts the experts. The others here understand the true nature of the threat and you don't.[and we are here to discuss MARRIAGE BUILDERS principles, after all] Dr. Harley is a reknowned, successful psychologist who specializes in adultery and has been doing this for 35 years. He has seen, and so have we, the results of continued contact. Recovery is impossible, AB.

Taking steps to end contact, AB, is a purely voluntary action. No one ever has to do anything recommended by Dr. Harley. However, that doesn't mean that the marriage will ever recover.

posting again:

Dr. Harley in Coping with Infidelity: Part 2
How Should Affairs End?


Never see or communicate with a former lover

Once an affair is first revealed, whether it's discovered or admitted, the victimized spouse is usually in a state of shock. The first reaction is usually panic, but it's quickly followed by anger. Divorce and sometimes even murder are contemplated. But after some time passes (usually about three weeks), most couples decide that they will try to pull together and save their marriage.

The one having an affair is in no position to bargain, but he or she usually tries anyway. The bargaining effort usually boils down to somehow keeping the lover in the loop. You'd think that the unfaithful spouse would be so aware of his or her weaknesses, and so aware of the pain inflicted, that every effort would be made to avoid further contact with the lover as an act of thoughtfulness to the stunned spouse. But instead, the unfaithful spouse argues that the relationship was "only sexual" or was "emotional but not sexual" or some other peculiar description to prove that continued contact with the lover would be okay.

Most victimized spouses intuitively understand that all contact with a lover must end for life. Permanent separation not only helps prevent a renewal of the affair, but it is also a crucial gesture of consideration to someone who has been through ******. What victimized spouse would ever want to know that his or her spouse is seeing or communicating with a former lover at work or in some other activity?

In spite of career sacrifices, friendships, and issues relating to children's schooling, I am adamant in recommending that there be no contact with a former lover for life. For many, that means a move to another state. But to do otherwise fails to recognize the nature of addiction and its cure.

<snip>

We don't know if R.J. still sees his lover, but he says he has broken off all contact. In many cases where a person is still in town, that's hard to prove. But one thing's for sure, if he ever does see his lover, it will put him in a state of perpetual withdrawal from his addiction, and make the resolution of his marriage essentially impossible. In fact, one of the reasons he is not recovering after three months of separation may be that he is not being truthful about the separation.

Entire article at: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5060_qa.html

How to Survive an Affair chapter in HIS NEEDS, HER NEEDS
p. 177

...I have seen husbands build new and wonderful relationships with their wives but then go back to their lovers after five or six years of what appeared to be marital bliss. When I ask them why, they inevitably tell me they miss the woman terribly and still love her. At the same time they stoutly affirm they love their wives dearly and would not think of leaving them.

I believe a man like this has told the truth. He is hopelessly entangled and needs all the help possible to be kept away from his lover and stay faithful to his wife. I often recommend that a man once involved in an affair come in to see me every three to six months on an indefinite basis, just to talk about how things are going and to let me know how successfully he has stayed away from his lover. He must resign himself to a lifetime without her. HE MUST CERTAINLY NOT WORK WITH HIS FORMER LOVER AND SHOULD PROBABLY LIVE IN SOME OTHER CITY OR STATE. Even with those restrictions the desire for her company persists...