Moved from Recovery Board:

I am very thankful for the many who have replied and have come to our aid.
I am taking some of that good advice and starting a new thread.
I have limited time to be able to reply, but I will do my best to do so.
Many know who I am through my wife RLT (rltraveled)
Please read some of her last posts to get caught up with where we are at this moment.
I thank you in advance for your help.

Hello Mr. RLT,

First, I just have to say that I am actually kind of drained already from the day and don't have much energy right now. I expended a lot of that energy on RLT's thread earlier. In that thread I have given you advice. I hope you take it so you won't come back to RLT later and say, "I don't know what to do". I was where your wife is right now a little less than two months ago.

Second, I also have to say that your post that started this thread feels like a half hearted attempt to me. Instead of us taking the time to read her thread, why don't you start talking about the problems you caused and start searching for specific solutions. It almost feels like you want us to try to solve your problems for you based on your measly short post. Start taking responsibility. You can start a list of your priorities and go from there. You need to be PROACTIVE and not reactive. This is not the only place you can get help either.


I mean look at your post. You have done all of this damage and you didn't even ask what you can do to fix it. You didn't ask any questions at all. Are you use to getting everything handed to you on a silver platter? Just asking.

I think the biggest things that a BS needs at this point is the complete and total truth of everything that you wouldn't want her to know, the answer to the question, "Why?", and how you are going to hold yourself accountable to never allow this to happen again. You need a complete lifestyle change so you wouldn't be able to cheat if you wanted to. Right now your BW's biggest fear is that it will happen again if she takes you back. You are a serial cheater and it is hard to change. Do everything she requests of you.

FWHofRLT...

My advice, should you want it...and I KNOW that I'm not your favorite of all MB posters right now since it was I that mentioned the dreaded polygraph on your wife's thread...Good thing, imo...She deserved the WHOLE truth a very long time ago...I would hope that you've been wise enough to give it to her at this point...forgive my skepticism, I think you'll agree that it's warranted...

Anyway, my advice...You have to lead this recovery if there is to be one at all...That means, THE FULL TRUTH, right now...A polygraph...YOU make plans for the two of you to go to a MB weekend IF she will go with you-If you can't afford it, I would recommend that you contact Steve Harley about possibly some sort of payment plan...I would not stall for a minute on any of this...If I were you, I'd be on the phone first thing in the morning with him-I'd also schedule an appointment for marriage coaching with him...You owe her your complete humbleness...You begin eating more crow than you ever thought possible...Understand that IF she stays with you what AMAZING GRACE that she possesses and TELL HER...Be in AWE of her...It takes more strength to be a BS than I've ever witnessed in my life...It is something that should take your breath away...If it doesn't, question yourself BIGTIME...

Schedule IC for yourself to figure out what is missing in YOU...This isn't about any deficit in your wife, it is about YOU...Time to do the internal work...Figure out why you have this need to bed or be sexual with women to feel good about you...

You answer any and all questions she has...OVER and OVER and OVER and OVER and OVER again without so much as a peep about not wanting to do it...You OWE her-MAJOR...You commit to doing all that it takes for as long as it takes...PERIOD...

So that is a starting point, you in?

Mrs. W

I wonder....

Do you really want your wife to feel whole and peace? Or do you just wish you could go back to the status-quo before your lies had started unraveling ON YOU instead of on HER?

See - I don't see ANY signs of true remorse. I see you having your friend verbally abuse your wife as you would do yourself if you dared more open warfare on her - but you would rather be deceitful about your anger on her for no longer tolerating your lies.

I'm not interested in helping you until I see true remorse - not this evil twisting and manipulation and shredding of the heart of the woman who has forgiven and tried again to restore a relationship with you.

Stop pretending to care about anyone but yourself. Let yourself truly feel the Godly sorrow with the full realization of the soul killing attempts you have perpetrated again and again on her.

Move out. Move in with the so-called friend you sic'd on your wife. And work out your repentance process with fear and trembling. Some day you will stand before God and account for your treatment of the one you promised full devotion and fidelity.

Expect NOTHING from her - not love, not forgiveness, not compassion. But you do everything you can to live in love and kindness and tenderness and protectiveness for the rest of your life. Ensure that her every want and need is cared for, even if she never so much as acknowledges your efforts. They have no value to her - only to you - and your own healing.

Mr.RLT...pay attention to what these two very smart ladies just said to you. KA and Mrs W hit the nail on the head.

Right now, you come across as a fraud...yep, a fraud...and a coward. So, what are you really prepared to do about it? Actions...enough talk since you have proven time and time again....for years on end, that your word means nothing. What will be your actions?

Here is my advice.

Assume for a moment that you were in RLT's shoes. What would you want?

I know it is hard but just stop.

I find people that lie about what they did just don't want to deal with the consequences of their actions.

Every day you lie even through omission makes your M a lie.

So if you can't be honest leave. Be man enough to tell RLT you will not tell her the truth. NOt today not ever.
Or sit down and be honest.

Then slowly not through words but through deeds and actions start making depostits in her LB for all the withdrawls your actions have caused.

This is NOT ABOUT YOU

Your poor wife is so desperate at the moment. She needs a clear head ad she sure can't have that with your [censored] hanging over her. MEDC is right. Give your wife some much needed peace. Let her get her emotions under control without YOUR control of her.

I too am seeng a disturbing lack of true remorse. It sounds to me like you are sorry that RLT finally knows the truth, NOT that you are sorry for anything you have done.
Because of that underlying attitude, you havent earned the "Formerly" in your name. You see, a classic wayward mindset is a general sense of entitlement. YOU were entitled to know everything and make your decisions to come back to your family but your wife wasnt?? Why are YOU entitled to know everything but she isnt? Do you see how that mindset brought you to where you are?

I sense there is alot more about your behavior that has yet to come to light. Your posts have an air of defensiveness about them. I think you are interested mainly in self preservation and NOT focused on what you need to do to help your wife.

IF you are interested in helping your wife you need to:

1. Take a polygraph. Get everything out once and for all. You have ONE chance now. You can be known for who you really are, not what you want others to believe about you. Isnt that exhausting? Trying to maintain that facade? It is quite possible that you are terrified that your W will leave you. She might. But you have NO RIGHT to control that decision for her. It is HER decision to make.

2. Make her your priority. Right now, you need to drop everything in your life. Your W needs to be your focus and what you can do to help her. IF she has to tell you what to do, you are missing the mark. The point is to know her so intimately, to be so connected to her that there is NO NEED for her to tell you what to do. You do it. Intuitively. Not because she asks for it but because you are so connected, so deeply invested in HER and your M that you would do anything to help her heal.

3. Lead the recovery. That means YOU do all the heavy lifting. YOU make appts with counselors. YOU do all the research, all the reading on how to heal. If that feels alien to you ( and it sounds as if your W was always the "fixer" or "manager" in your lives) then good. What youve been doing in your life clearly hasnt worked for you -so maybe it is time for a change.

If she is able to see her way through all the pain you have given her and elects to keep you, Thank GOD for her. What you have done to your W is unspeakable. When you have an A, the pain this causes to a BS is UNBEARABLE. I tell you now, your W has IN NO WAY been dramatic when she tells you how bad this hurts. IT. IS. UNBEARABLE. You have made this situation so much more so by your further lies and deception while purporting to be in recovery and making her feel like it is HER fault that things were not progressing between the 2 of you.

May god help you, Mr RLT. You are going to need it.

Mr RLT,

Time to cowboy up!

I know you and RLT have been making effort to recover your marriage and rebuild. The problem is that one missing ingredient so far has been trust. She just doesn't trust you as far as she can throw you.

So now the truth comes out. At least it is some truth, since we don't know if it is the whole truth yet. And that is your wife's problem right now. You have pretended to be honest and done all of the other right things while hiding more of the stuff from the affair from her. In addition, early on, right after D-day when you said you were working on the marriage, you were still hiding what you were really doing from her.

So know you have a serious problem. You have trampled on RLT's heart but her trust as well. At this point she won't be able to believe anything you say and less than half of what you show her...

So you'd better start showing her A LOT!

Don't try to gas light your way through this! Time to cowboy up and do what needs to be done.

RLT has been struggling trying to rebuild your marriage and now she has found out the foundation is worthless. You have to rebuild the foundation. The problem you now have is that the house may fall down while you work.

It may already be too late so don't take this lightly.

Mark

Mr. RLT,

I know that you are working two jobs, so assume you haven't had time to respond to these folks well thought responses.

I can't add much that hasn't already been said here. You see, that this can't be about you. RLT needs to be the only one you are concerned about. And if that means leaving her alone to recover herself, then that is what you have to do.

Right now, she probably doesn't know what she wants to do, and that is OK. You on the other hand have loads of work to do on YOU. Because, you can't even begin to recover your marriage until you fix you.

I agree that you need the assistance with this and recommend strongly that you contact Steve Harley and try to figure out a way to pay for some IC. The MC should wait until you really understand the mammoth amount of damage your actions have caused and start taking steps to be first a better person.

My guess is that you already know what kind of person and husband you have been and even you don't really like you.

Who

Those are my initials.....

creepy.

Ditto,

Show me actions that communicate genuine remorse and you have my 100% support in sustaining those actions.

Right now you look like you hate the consequences rather than hating the lifestyle that led to the consequences.

Take the first steps by...

1 Volunteering any additional info that you have been concealing.

2 Stop manipulating. If you can't open your mouth without trying to cover your butt then don't open your mouth. Don't have any relationship talk outside the presence of a counselor or third party who has agreed to provide accountability. If you can't shut your mouth then leave.

3 Give her the freedom to make decisions without being influenced by you.

4 No tears, no self pity...if you say anything say this...I'm wrong..I'll take my consequences now. It is MY fault that I am uncomfortable. It is RIGHT that you don't trust me. It is RIGHT that you hold me accountable.

5 Do the work. Read the books. Post.

6 Protect your wife from the fallout of your bad decisions to greatest extent possible. Talk to an attorney about legal shelters [especially financial ones] for her. Make a way for her to walk away from you without having to STILL pay for your mistakes. Give her that freedom. It's scary because those consequences are strong motivation for her to stay....that is coercion skippy...cut her loose and let her make her own choices.

7 Remove everyone who supported your wayward behavior from your life including close friends and family...make it YOUR decision...not something she MADE you do. Perhaps when you have a firmer grasp of boundaries you will be able to have limited contact with these people again...but it isn't LIKELY that you will ever be able to have much exposure to them before you start to slide into a wayward frame of mind again.


These are all examples of step 1 actions that NEED to happen..whether you cooperate and lead the recovery effort or drag you feet kicking and screaming trying to hold on to your old habits.

I'm sure that you can predict a better outcome from leading than being an obstacle to the very basic groundfloor protections that she needs to even CONSIDER making a life with you ever again.

Noodle,

Great post! As always, the best advice.

WH of RLT:

Your wife's original post was one of the first ones that I ever read around here.

It's always been there in the back of my mind.

The guy who was able to go to Florida for a month with his OW, visit all the places you went as a family and even introduce OW to other family members as the NEW RLT. Happliy spending the FREE 401k money.

For a whole month.

Brazen that.

And then, you decided (?) that it was better to come home.

And started to do some of the right things.

A little bit of honesty
A little bit of care
A little of the right thing.

However there was a growing 800 pound gorilla in the room, that only you could see.

Mrs RLT would bump into it, but could never figure out what it was. Or if there was anything really there.

And because she found an email address to OW indicating further contact, you go into defensive mode....

And that was a week ago.

And look where you are now?

The 800 pound gorilla has exploded all over the room. Now, you, RLT, the kids, everyone here can see the outlines of the gorilla, and its wastes all over the walls.

There is a new 800 pound gorilla building, you have got to stop it in its tracks. By being as honest and as forthright as you can be right now. It's your only chance.

All the things you have admitted?

Good. That destroys the 800 lb gorilla.

Mrs RLT will learn to process your lies and your deceptions. (She has been doing it for YEARS, she is well versed now) But its up to you to stop having her have to do that.

By becoming transparent. By answering any question truthfully. By expanding the answer, and not thinking, "well she asked THIS, not THAT, so I only answered with THIS. All THAT has to get out there too.

Submit to the Polygraph exam.

It may seem that you and Mrs RLT are possibly at the lowest point now.

But you will look back at this week as the first time since you were first involved with RLT that you were actually honest with her. That you finally let her into the MR. RLT world.

And, if you let her stay, you just might find out what MarriageBuilders is all about.

Don't blow it.

Its your only chance.

Very good people have been posting to your W and will to YOU. But its up to you to accept the excellent advice that they can give you.

They will give you advice to be honest and transparent with your W. They will give you advice to give up your wayward ways.

And its not really that hard to do. You have started down that path since November. Now it just time to go from a trudge to a RUN.

You can clean up the explosion after the 800lb gorilla goes, but you can't feed it. Because its always going to blow.

LG

LG, You are a Former Wayward Spouse, right?

I agree with RLT, all of you are amazing, and I agree with all of you that She is amazing...the meer fact that I am graced to share the air she breathes is a miracle in it's self.
We were able to see our MC today, who has suggested a controlled seperation. I have agreed to do whatever rlt needs, wants, or expects from me. After our session, we were able to talk calmly, and I confessed the balance of my secrets.
I have agreed to a polygraph.
I am going to get IC and join an accountabilty group.
I know the only way to recovery is on my shoulders. Rlt has carried me far too long.
I also know that recovery is not a guarrantee, but I owe her everything.
Thank you for your attention...Noodle, LG, Mark...and the rest

RLT:

Yes.

LG

Forget the controlled seperation as suggested by your C.

She/he has no clue!!!!!

PORH is your only hope. Transperaency(SP) is your only hope.

Lose the loser C. He/she is totaly lost in your sitch.

Call Jenifer or Dr H and do something helpful !!!

All blessings,
Jerry

Jerry...I believe that this controlled separation is like Plan B...

Mrs. W