MRS W,
I don't believe for a minute that her C has any clue about PLAN A or B.

More BS from C's who are totally unqualified to give any advise. JMO

All Blessings,
Jerry

To both Mrs.RLT and Mr.RLT,

I have not been posting but I have been watching and now praying that God helps you both heal and the marriage survive and thrive.

MrRLT. it took me 7 months to go from confessing some to confessing all. during those 7 months, although DH didn't know, my hidden lies made recovery impossible. with help from people here i managed to take the next step and when i confessed the second time, i told DH EVERYTHING.

I mostly pray right now that you have truely told RLT EVERYTHING.

I agree with the others that say forget the controlled seperation.

RLT, Harley is a very smart guy. right? he does not think seperation (unless it is a plan b scenerio, plan b meaning your spouse is still in an active affair) helps a couple to heal and recover.

now if you want the seperation because you are sure you want to divorce, you certainly have that right. but if you even just have a whisper of a hope to have this marriage survive, try to stay under the same roof.

RLT - I pray God will help you find some peace. Take care of yourself!!!

I also doubt that a separation is necessary at this point. I'd either call Dr Harley on their radio program or have an appointment with t Ihem before taking that step. Your choice. A plan B certainly doesn't seem called for.

Is your MC familiar with Harley's work?

Dr. Harley DOES sometimes recommend Plan B when there isn't an active affair...He does this when there is a refusal by one spouse to meet the other spouse's needs...I'd say that Mr. RLT has certainly been refusing to meet RLT's need for O&H...

I do think a call in to Dr. Harley would be wise for RLT though...

Mrs. W

there in lies the problem. is Mr.RLT still refusing or has he truely come clean?

no one but Mr.RLT really knows.

if HE sets up that test, if HE gets himself in IC and in that accountablitly group like right NOW. then there is some evidence of action that he really is trying.

Mr.RLT, i pray you are doing these things NOW. the longer you wait the more you hurt your wife.

we sure would all love to hear about the progress you are making in these areas. i, for one, care about YOU too.

you need this Mr.RLT. help yourself and in doing so, help your dear wife. it's the only way.

Please don't let another day end without accomplishing these tasks.

Mr RLT also needs his "friend" to apologize to RLT for the verbal and spiritual abuse and then have NO CONTACT with that friend EVER again - he needs to stand up for his wife!

I understand FLTH...But really there are no guarantees that RLT is gonna want to recover the marriage...That is her choice afterall...Right now I believe she is in a whole bunch of shock and may well need a separation of sorts to figure out what she wants...She may need to withdraw from him to in order for her to make a clear headed decision at this point...Her call of course and I would hope that she will call Dr. Harley, as I stated earlier...

Mrs. W

KaylaAndy,

that is a EXCELLENT suggestion!!

Mr.RLT, what do you think?

OK...so the affairs are STILL coming out.

How do you ever, EVER expect her to have any trust in you when you continue to lie?

Seriously...this all brings tremendous doubt (at least on my part) that you REALLY want to rebuild your marriage. I am beginning all these pretty words you're putting on the screen are just that...words on a screen, and reflect little about your real intent in fixing the damage you've caused.

Really...sit down and think about this. What possible reason have you given RLT to trust you ever again? How are you ever going to PROVE to her the truth is all revealed (if it EVER IS?)????? You're going to have to come up with something...and its gonna have to be something pretty spectacular.

That polygraph is looking to me like its your only possible chance...but of course, you realize that that route will require you to tell ALL of the full final scope of your lies before you go in there...because if you go in and fail the polygraph, you will have signed the death certificate on trust in you, ever again.

Just somethings you might want to start thinking about.

Mr RLT,

I don't know if you've ever read this, but check it out.

Trueheart's Letter

And though written to former wayward wives, this may shed some light as well.

Dorry's Recovery Guide

Mark

Edited to add: Your Marriage Isn't Hopeless - After the Affair

Mrs W,
I believe Plan B is only necessary when Plan A fails to end the A.
Am I wrong about this?

All blessings,
Jerry

Jerry,

Dr. Harley does sometimes recommend Plan B when one spouse is refusing to meet the other spouse's needs...Plan B is not just used when dealing with active affairs, there are indeed other circumstances where Dr. Harley recommends it...Remember that Plan B was designed to preserve the lovebank when the actions of one spouse are simply too hurtful to the other...I have even read Dr. Harley recommend separation when AOs were out of control, because staying together at that point risks the total draining of one or both spouses' lovebanks...

Mrs. W

WW of Mrs RLT:

What's up?

Has the truth come out?
Have you scheduled the polygraph?
Do you feel better NOW?
Where do you want to go from here?

A little bit of honesty was a start.
Nothing BUT honesty gets you to the rest of your life.

As difficult as it is for you to imagine, WE ARE ALL PULLING for you.

We come from many different viewpoints, but the veterans here, have been there, done that.

They have watched others here in your exact same spot come walking in from the edge of the abyss and end up with stronger, intimate and affectionate Marriages.

Yes. It tough right now.

Yes, MrsRLT may Divorce you.

But it's in your court.

Truth, honesty and transparency.

If you have revealed all, then continue to do so.

That wall you created between you and MrsRLT has begun to be dismantled (smashed by truth hammers, most recently), but only to the extent that you have let it. Even ONE final layer of bricks will still be sensed by MrsRLT, and will not allow her to move as close to you as she needs. Imagine the person in the wheelchair, obviously they can not go thru a wall, but they can't even roll over a small layer of bricks. Your W is in that wheelchair. Until she can feel safe to ride anywhere around you, she will not feel safe being married to you.

Your the mason.

Destroy the wall.

Level the field.

It's the only shot you got.

LG

I am trying to stay off of this thread, but I need you guys to help Mr. RLT with something.

I'm asking him questions via email. His answers are short, pretty non explanatory.

For example there is an incident of a girl he flirted with. There was an almost kiss. She stopped it.
I had to pull this out of him with a couple of emails back and forth.

I would like to know the circumstance, where they were, and why she stopped it. Did he pursue her? Did she pursue him? You know, just, what the heck was going on here.

Can you please explain to him that explanations are needed, not just curt answers.

thank you, and I will try and stay off of here.

Mr. RLT...

RLT does need all of the details...You don't get to decide "what she can or can not handle"...Not up to you...You made decisions about her life without her consent, she has a right to know about those decisions and all of the details of them...I've told Mr. W all there is to tell about my affair, with the promise to him and myself that should I remember any stray details later, that I will share them with him...I can't stand the thought of having a secret between myself and someone other than Mr. W...To have any secrets from him would DESTROY true intimacy between us...And you know what else? It feels good knowing that he knows all about me...warts and all and still he CHOOSES to love me...That is a great feeling...I hope you will heed my advice...

I'm not sure if you've read Joseph's Letter before or not...If you haven't, I think it may help you to understand why RLT needs and deserves ALL of the details...If you have already read it, I think it would still serve you well to read it again...I will post it in bold below...

Best,

Mrs. W

"To Whomever,

"I know you are feeling the pain of guilt and confusion. I understand that you wish all this never happened and that you wish it would just go away. I can even believe that you truly love me and that your indiscretion hurts you emotionally much the same way it hurts me. I understand your apprehension to me discovering little by little, everything that led up to your indiscretion, everything that happened that night, and everything that happened afterwards. I understand. No one wants to have a mistake or misjudgment thrown in his or her face repeatedly. No one wants to be forced to "look" at the thing that caused all their pain over and over again. I can actually see, that through your eyes, you are viewing this whole thing as something that just needs to go away, something that is over, that he/she doesn't mean anything to you, so why is it such a big issue? I can understand you wondering why I torture myself with this continuously, and thinking, doesn't he/she know by now that I love him/her? I can see how you can feel this way and how frustrating it must be. But for the remainder of this letter I'm going to ask you to view my reality through my eyes.

"You were there. There is no detail left out from your point of view. Like a puzzle, you have all the pieces and you are able to reconstruct them and be able to understand the whole picture, the whole message, or the whole meaning. You know exactly what that picture is and what it means to you and if it can effect your life and whether or not it continues to stir your feelings. You have the pieces, the tools, and the knowledge. You can move through your life with 100% of the picture you compiled. If you have any doubts, then at least you're carrying all the information in your mind and you can use it to derive conclusions or answers to your doubts or question. You carry all the "STUFF" to figure out OUR reality. There isn't really any information, or pieces to the puzzle that you don't have.

"Now let's enter my reality. Let's both agree that this affects our lives equally. The outcome no matter what it is well affect us both. Our future and our present circumstances are every bit as important to me as it is to you. So, why then is it okay for me to be left in the dark? Do I not deserve to know as much about the night that nearly destroyed our relationship as you do? Just like you, I am also able to discern the meaning of certain particulars and innuendoes of that night and just like you, I deserve to be given the opportunity to understand what nearly brought our relationship down. To assume that I can move forward and accept everything at face value is unrealistic and unless we stop thinking unrealistically I doubt our lives well ever "feel" complete. You have given me a puzzle. It is a 1000 piece puzzle and 400 random pieces are missing. You expect me to assemble the puzzle without the benefit of looking at the picture on the box. You expect me to be able to discern what I am looking at and to appreciate it in the same context as you. You want me to be as comfortable with what I see in the picture as you are. When I ask if there was a tree in such and such area of the picture you tell me don't worry about it, it's not important. When I ask whether there were any animals in my puzzle you say don't worry about it, it's not important. When I ask if there was a lake in that big empty spot in my puzzle you say, what's the difference, it's not important. Then later when I'm expected to "understand" the picture in my puzzle you fail to understand my disorientation and confusion. You expect me to feel the same way about the picture as you do but deny me the same view as you. When I express this problem you feel compelled to admonish me for not understanding it, for not seeing it the way you see it. You wonder why I can't just accept whatever you chose to describe to me about the picture and then be able to feel the same way you feel about it.

"So, you want me to be okay with everything. You think you deserve to know and I deserve to wonder. You may honestly feel that the whole picture, everything that happened is insignificant because in your heart you know it was a mistake and wish it never happened. But how can I know that? Faith? Because you told me so? Would you have faith if the tables were turned? Don't you understand that I want to believe you completely? But how can I? I can never know what is truly in your mind and heart. I can only observe you actions, and what information I have acquired and slowly, over time rebuild my faith in your feelings. I truly wish it were easier.

"So, there it is, as best as I can put it. That is why I ask questions. That is where my need to know is derived from. And that is why it is unfair for you to think that we can effectively move forward and unfair for you to accuse me of dwelling on the past. My need to know stems from my desire to hold our world together. It doesn't come from jealousy, it doesn't come from spitefulness, and it doesn't come from a desire to make you suffer. It comes from the fact that I love you. Why else would I put myself through this? Wouldn't it be easier for me to walk away? Wouldn't it be easier to consider our relationship a bad mistake in my life and to move on to better horizons? Of course it would, but I can't and the reason I can't is because I love you and that reason in itself makes all the difference in the world."

(end of Joseph's Letter)

Mark, Thank you for sharing truehearts letter with me.
I just saved dorry's guide and will read it also.
I realize that RLT and I have to start at this new square one. I owe her my very existance. I pray she will have me again

Mr RLT,

Don't miss Joseph's letter posted above by Mrs W.

Mark

Mrs. W,
This sounds exactly like RLT to me. I have blamed her for our not healing, when I know in fact that it has been my fault period.
She crawled out of her grave just to open a door for me and I came in with flowers, just to throw dirt on her open casket.
God has a special place for her and I fear I'll never get to visit it.
May God bless her always

Total honesty. I would think it would be a relief.

So what about the first order of protection - getting rid of the so-called friend who continued your betrayal and attack?