oooh ten year anniversary gifts to you..

1. he sets phone counseling up with the Harleys...today as well as agreeing to one of their weekend retreats

2. he agrees to anger management classes...

3. he reveals all phone numbers, bills and computer passwords....
you have the option of putting a key logger on computers but do not have to reveal if you do or don't...

you two see YOUR lawyer...with full disclosure of assets to safe gaurd you and the children

you do nothing else till he goes through withdrawal...
real honest withdrawal..

lets assume this OW is going to escalate very quickly...she was promised a lot by your hubby and she's not going to go down with instant no contact.....

no relationship talk from you...

lots of listening
lots of watching...

but unless he calls the harleys..today..../monday..wouldn't hold much...to his word...

AND
he hands over his cell phone to you..so you get all contact from OW...

do you think he has another cell phone for contact with her...


safety first...

ARK

I will suggest the Harley sessions and look into the weekend retreat. That is a great idea!

I do have access to his cell phone bills and have looked at them regularly since March. Unfortunately he had arranged for an 800 number for OW and I did notthink to check those (800 #), he also confessed he had been using pay phones and calling cards since then. I do not think he has an alternate cell phone.

I think I will add a keylogger to his laptop. I have to internet research it this weekend.

The anger management would be great. Unfortunately he has agreed to counceling 2 times and both times did not continue because he said the therapists "did not like him." I will suggest it again.

Do you mean we should both go to the same attorney and draw up an agreement (like a pre-nup without the pre)?

Many thanks-
Gwife

All I can suggest is to watch his actions. Words are cheap, but see if he continues to try to work on the marriage. Also snoop to see if any contact continues.

I called the bank today to verify the account is indeed closed and .... IT IS! Also- we are mailing the NC letter HE wrote as well as the forms to disolve the corporation he formed with her tomorrow. We would have mailed this weekend but family commitments and rain kept us from driving down to the post office.

I am very depressed about everything and can not sleep unless I take a sleeping pill. Will AD medication or anxiety medication help? Does anyone have experience with this? If so - will they make you gain weight or make you drowsy? I am very involved with my kids and can not afford to be doped up.

This past Saturday night we went outfor cocktails and I felt very weird being with him now that I know what his revised history is? Is this his NEW reality? Will it fade and will his recollection/history actually match whatreally happened? I was nice and all but very cold and distant as I do not kow whatto say or how to act with him. I feel unloved.


Also - how should I go about securing things if he has agreed to stay, do MB audio courses, MAYBE go to IC, etc. I'm worried he will flip out again and I'm still in the same boat. I am completely dependant on him. It did notstart offthis way. I used to work, had my own money, a homeowner, etc...when we met. Somehow, in a very deliberate way, I have been made (and I suppose I agreed to) to be completely dependant on him. I don't understand how this happened. I mean - he is much older than I am. I do EVERYTHING around the house, with the kids and make sure everything is perfect for him. He does not mow the lawn (we have someone that does that) and I am the handyman. If I can not handle it I will call someone to do it. All he does is work and play. He does not even deal with the kids on the day to day. He only interacts when it is fun. I can't explain it - it is very weird. If I were a man I would LOVE my life.

Gwife

We went out to dinner on our anniversary to the same restaurant we had our wedding reception 10 years ago. He gave me a mo-ped, 2 dozen roses and a card. (I've always wated a scooter so he said if I could handle the smaller ped he would trade up for a Honda scooter in a few months.)

We also went to a resort for the weekend and had an OK time although I found myself VERY angry inside but did not LB.

We returned Sunday and I snapped and started LBing and continued until Tuesday night when he went out of town (to an industry convention.)

I am triggered by the inconsiderate and rude things that he does. For example, on Monday night I cooked a big dinner and rented movies for the FAMILY to watch. He agreed to be home at 3 so we could take our DD16 to purchase her class ring. That way we would be home by 5, could eat by 6 and watch a movie with the 3 girls by 7. He did not get home until 5:30, I was cooking by then. He took DD16 to pick out ring and then calls an hour later and says we should eat without them. I waited. He got home, ate in a jiffy and then left to take an employee(B) grocery shopping because B can not drive due to DUI. I feel like B could have taken a cab, walked, whatever and H could have stayed home and participated as planned with kids. He seems to choose others before the family on so many occassions. That set me off and I was a raving lunatic. I hated myself for it!

Anywho - he goes out of town Tuesday morning and as usual his cell phone goes dead mid sentence. He does not call me back untill midnight - when he is completely drunk. He was verbally abusive. Thank G-d he does not remember because I was LBing like mad. It just set me off that his phone went dead and he did not find a pay phone - considering that was one way he kept his A going between Dday1 and Dday2.

I saw IC Wednesady and she told me to STOP acting crazy. She said, "So what are YOU going to do about it? You can not control the situation, his actions, etc. You can only control yourself." I was like "BINGO!"

When he called Wed after IC I was very calm and nice and did not make excuses to stay on the line. Short and sweet. I am busy and have a life - seems I forgot since I discovered A. I have forced myself to stop when a thought about A pops into my head.

Anywho - yesterday he called me about 8 times. Just to say Hi and see what was up. He also called in evening - about 10pm and was in his room. He sounded down but I did not cave into it. I was very chipper and did not fall prey to his tactics of stealing my power. You see, after Dday2 he was very mean and threatened by possibility of it being over (the punching insident) and he would say to me, "I KNOW you have nothing better going on in your life but this marriage, but I have a life...." That wounded me because my family is my life and is dependant on our marriage. I see now that I had gaven him ALL the power in this relationship. It should not be a power struggle but he is a man with a big ego and had made it so.

I guess over the years he requested and I agreed to give him all of my power. From quitting my job to letting him dictate how I wear my hair, etc. I did because I wanted to trust and be taken care of while taking care of him. I am not sure about EN not being met as I have always been very available and accomodating, maybe too much so. IC said some people will stray just because they can and lack moral judgement. I don't know anymore....I'm just trying to go back to perfect Plan A like I did between Dday1 and Dday2 although plan A was not very different than normal life as he has it made...no joke...EVERYBODY, all his male friends and relatives tell him so.

He has no chores (we have help for grounds and I am the handy man inside or I will hire someone if it is too complex) and only spends time with the kids when it is convenient for him and fun. Same with me. He does not do the day to day. The only requests after Dday1 was that I should leave the kids with a Nanny and travel with him whenever he wanted. That is the one thing I can not do, they are 12,12,16 and need me. I think he threw this out because he needed something to make his A legit. His other request was that I not give him my opinion as he feels insulted by it. For example, he said he wanted to mount a big screen flat tv to the ceiling on top of our bed so he could watch tv while laying down. I said I really didn't feel like having a broken face.

He says that my comment was insulting and went on to say that the beginning lure of OW was that she was pretty stupid and was impressed by his every thought, opinion, etc. He felt like he could teach her something. The main lure to continuing A was the fact that he was doing something behind my back and getting away with it. He said he was playing a game and not ready to stop after Dady1. He wanted to see just how far he could take it without my knowing.

Last month (after Dday2) he had re-written history to include the typical I haven't loved you, I do not like you, etc..but has stopped now.

How do I proceed with this man? Please give me some insight as I find myself very depressed, angry and feel like I am worthless.

Gwife

P.S. I found out he is very suspicious now - checking mycell phone bill and minutes used, compuet keylogger (I am using kid's at the moment), requesting detailed home phone bill, etc. I think paranoia has set in...what do you think?

Is he an alcoholic?

no. why?

He likes to have a good time which sometimes includes drinking and once in a while, he will get drunk. It is not often enough to be a problem and he does not get drunk every time he drinks. So I guess my answer is no, he is not an alcoholic.

I am eager to hear your perspective or advise MelodyL as I have read many of your posts and know that you do follow MB techniques very well. I am so new and naiive .....

Of course I am eager to hear everybody's take as I am at a complete loss at how to proceed.

Gwife

Dr. Harley would tell you to go out of town with him, or he should not go. Spending the nights apart has been DISASTEROUS for your marriage, and a continuation of same will avail the same result. Traveling alone is a BREEDING GROUND for affairs. In order for your marriage to recover, then the conditions that led to the environment that bred an affair must CHANGE. And this one is CRITICAL.

It is in your kids BEST interest to have an intact family. It is not in their best interest to come from a broken home with a divorce. You can't have your cake and eat it too, gwife.


I don't understand this comment. What did you mean by broken face?



Entire article: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/m

This is a CLUE to what motivates him! Is his top need ADMIRATION? If so, I would learn how best to meet that need. A person with this need HATES to be criticized.

Do you know his top needs?

I meant that the tv could fall off the ceiling and onto us while we slept. Honestly, I thought it was a stupid idea considering we hardly ever watch tv unless we rent a DVD which is about 1 time per week.
_______________
I have suggested we move back to Chicago as that is primarily where he travels to and where he had his A. Although, when we lived in Chicago he would be out late 50% of the evenings and he was just as inconsiderate (and a liar) as he has been here (Texas.) I had caught him in lies, inappropraite e-mail convos, etc. but never had enough to pin on him.

Also - he would take "fun" trips with his buddies to their college at homecoming, etc.

Anywho - after Dday1 I said we should move back and he said he wanted to stay because the kids were so happy here. I think he wanted to stay so he could continue lieing about having to go to Chicago just to be with OW. SHe is married with 2 kids and does not want him. She just used him for money and whatever else she could get from him....

Should I go back into a Plan A? I did a perfect (no joke) Plan A for 5 months between Dday1 and Dady2. The A continued although he was pretending that he was working on the M and we had a GREAT summer. He is due back in a few hours from pebblebeach - where he has been since Tuesday.

What to do? How to act? How to proceed?
Gwife

gwife, would he go to a Marriage Builders weekend with you? They are very indepth and very much worth the money. Dr. Harley walks you through the lessons over a year and you would have access to him on this forum every day. It looks like the next one is in Orlando later this month but registration is still open:

October 26th & 27th
Sheraton Safari Hotel
Orlando, Florida
More information...
REGISTRATION OPEN

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi011_dates.html

I do not know how to quote your posts...I will try to respond so it makes sense...

Regarding the admiration thing...he said she was stupid and he felt he could teach her something. He liked that she was stupid. I know I sound like an idiot on line because I am typing fast and not proof reading but I have 2 degrees and speak 3 languages. He said he feels as though there is nothing he can know that I won't be able to know more about. I can not change the fact that I am not a complete idiot. Also - he said he does not want me actively involved in our family business (day to day) beyond the marketing and advertising because he likes having knowledge about something I do not. He said if I worked with him day to day I would know more than he does. Very weird in my opinion.

I will say that he is a hypocrite - one minute saying he does not need to explain or coddle because he knows I am smart enough to comprehend (whatever the issue is at the moment) and that is what he always liked about me but then the next moment he is using it as the basis of the beginning of his A.

I do not critisize him per say, he just said my opinions reveal his inadequacies at times. So I stopped having an opinion during Plan A.

I do not know his EN yet - I did order both audio courses but he has not followed through with any of the assignments because he is "too busy" although every week that passes he promises he will get started. I am gettingtired of waiting.

Regarding the weekend retreat : I think he would to make me happy and so he will have something to throw in my face at a later date. To be able to say, "I went to the retreat so now you can not say anything about me, the affair or what I do or don't do." He does use gifts, events, etc. as reasons to act out later on or as justification.

We tried MC but he quit because C said he was a pathological liar with narcassistic tendencies. I continued to go and it has become IC.

Hope this all makes sense...if you read my first post on this thread you will get a quick run down of the situation.

Pardon the typos-
Gwife

P.S. Regarding admiration - I compliment him, his success, his looks, etc... very often! In private and public.

But you can change the fact that you LOOK UP TO HIM. That is what he wants. He doesn't necessarily want you to be an idiot, he wants you to look up to him and ADMIRE HIM. He does not feel this way with you. But that can be changed by you.


He has said that he finds your opinions insulting. That is what I think you explore. WHY does he feel insulted by them?


He may very well be a liar and a narcissist and the MB weekend would either help you FIX the marriage or come to an INFORMED decision about his mental problems. You can't FIX narcissism. Dr. Harley is a PSYCHOLOGIST, after all. He could diagnose your H and tell you if it is better to cut bait. And he won't hesitate to tell you if he thinks it is hopeless. I think he is your BEST HOPE.

He is my best hope ... as in a weekend seminar or individual sessions?

reagrding admiration: I am very free with compliments and acknowledge his good qualities, actions, hard work, etc.. How do I go beyond that to make him feel "looked up to?"

The MC was the one that mentioned the narcissism and path lieing. I do not feel that she thinks the M can be repaired. She has instead decided to focus on me, my emotional recovery and my taking steps to re-gain idependance, power, etc...

G

BOTH. He doesn't usually do individual counseling but you would have access to him for life and he is qualified to tell you whether this can be saved. You could both learn the program at the weekend session. You would both be given lessons to follow and those lessons, if followed, will turn your marriage around. His staff will follow up with you weekly throughout the lessons. UNLESS he is really mentally ill and is not capable of being in a healthy marriage. Dr. Harley would be able to discern this, though. And if this is the case, you could make a decision about the future of your marriage.

I just laughed at "really mentally ill"...don't ask why but I don'tthink he is. I honestly justthink he has made it a habit of being selfish and getting what he wants, whn he wants it reagrdless of what it costs, hurts, betrays, etc. Does that make sense?

I'm aksing again..reagrding admiration: I am very free with compliments and acknowledge his good qualities, actions, hard work, etc.. How do I go beyond that to make him feel "looked up to?"

Thanks-
G

Yes. And it may be all those things, that is why I think going to this seminar would be ideal for you. It will hold him accountable for making CHANGES in his behavior. And it will hold you accountable for making changes.


I would stop insulting his opinions and stop criticizing him. If you do any of that, then it is not believable when you praise him. Do you debate with him or try to tell him his opinions are stupid?