Welcome to MB.

We can do you a WORLD of good around here.

Take what you need from here.

Give what you feel you need to back.

BUT, DO NOT question the MB principles.

You may choose to ignore them, or put them off for your own individual circumstances.

That is your choice.

We attempt to advise people NOT to make the same mistakes that we MAY have made, our spouses have made, or other posters are making.

IF my OW was to fly into the state for a conference, and I knew it was happening, even today, 24.5 months PAST D-day, I could not attend that conference. Even with my W.

The pull is that strong.

Yes, your marriages appear to be gettting stronger.

But that appearance is fake until true NC in achieved and withdrawal has occurred.

Remember they are YOUR choices. You MAY dodge the bullet.

But the recovery of your M does not start until NC is achieved and withdrawal has happened.

That is an MB principle.

And there have been so few exceptions to that around here, that it is not even worth measuring.

But continued contact? Even briefly.... allows the flame to grow.... And the A to restart.....

Those stories around here?

Too many to count.....

Take what you need. Give back what you feel you can.

LG

Solid advice here.

LG,

With all due respect, and I mean that, my differences with a few posters is NOT over the MB principles per se, as I believe in them very much. My issues come from the condescending arrogance of a few posters, who in my opinion, are much more interested in proclaiming their superior positions than actually looking at the issues and helping another person who is struggling.

You don't need to preach to me about NC, we are living with those issues daily, both from the OM and toxic best GF, who was encouraging the A, and we have went NC with also.

Don't worry about further "dust ups" from me, as I've learned much in the past week about a few of the toxic personalities that frequent this board and have chosen to employ the board softwares "ignore" feature rather than let these people poison an otherwise valuable website.

I have considerable internet message board experience and nearly every message board that I frequent has these same type personalities that attempt to shout down anyone who may disagree with them, even over trivial matters, and I've found that those types are better just "ignored" if the boards software offer that feature. Just as in daily life, not everyone is compatible with everyone else ... its not a problem, just reality.

Amen MR!

In other words, when he attempted to put down Marriage Builders principles [there are exceptions to nc] and promote dishonesty and fraud he was soundly refuted and is now crying about it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> And the ones who defended MB principles are "arrogant" by "proclaiming their superior positions."

**************edit***********

MR, let me give you a suggestion. Instead of collapsing in tears and lashing out at the folks who refute your challenges of MB principles, why not just make your CASE? You say there can be exceptions to no contact. Why not prove Dr. Harley wrong and MAKE YOUR CASE?

Show us HOW recovery can take place when the affair partners are still in contact. Tell us why you think this can work and how AlphaBeta can actually recover his marriage. [since it is on its death bed a year after D-Day, just as Dr. H predicted]

That would be much more convincing than playing the poor victimized damsel when folks challenge you.

MR-

I've got to say, I'm AMAZED.

I'm normally the FIRST person to go off on ******* Ask around...I've got a reputation as a jerk. I'm good with that. ***I have gone "round and round" over the years here.

I've been engaged in all the same threads lately as anyone else, and I've got to tell you that they've been nothing but cordial and polite to you. They've offered their advice based on their experience and understanding of the MB principles, just the same as anyone else does around here.

You feel that their "one size fits all" approach is wrong. Fine...you're obviously entitled to feel that way if you choose to. I think that you'll find that most of us who have been through this same thing both personally and having seen it repeatedly over the years on this board will agree with them. The scripts stay the same...only the names tend to change. And how you deal with the players in these scripts really varies very little overall.

You're obviously as welcome to your opinion as anyone else. I think your best bet probably WOULD be to put ML and others you disagree with on ignore. I'm expecting that the number of posts that you'll see on this forum will quickly diminish to very few. Amusingly enough, I expect to be on that list fairly quickly too, and as I've already stated, I'm not one of the "in crowd" around here.

I'm curious...how do you think that YOUR approach to NC would allow a marriage to recover? Describe how your plan works, what makes it work, etc...

Just wanted to add...you've commented that some posters here have been condescending...

Trust me...they've been cute as kittens. You haven't seen them when they're really bent over something...trust me! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Wow...am I actually telling someone that they need to lighten up because they're being way to harsh on **???? ARE YOU KIDDING ME???? Is the sky falling???? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

**snort** <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> dat is very funny!

Owl,

Good response. BTW, you are not on any "ignore" list, nor do I plan for you to be.

I will admit to having a personality conflict with****edit********** ... I just don't care for those personality characteristics, and see no reason to deal with them on my free time.

Now for some clarification, since my position has been so distorted by ***continued mischaracterizations.

I fully support NO CONTACT and have already posted that I couldn't do what AB is contemplating. Also, my first posts were prior to learning more of AB's history, which was omitted from his original post on the No Contact thread.

However, my original response that AB could possibly manage this situation was based largely on his WW being under contract, that I assumed would expire sometime within the next year or so. Therefore, this situation would only be temporary. Also, he seemed satisfied that it was only an EA he was dealing with, although in hindsight with the benefit of additional information it may actually have been physical at some point, and it does appear that BH's handle this issue differently than BW's.

My advice was that if AB was going to travel this path, that he needed some well defined boundaries, which I think is still sound advice, but this portion of my post was completely ignored while they criticized me for even suggesting that he could manage this situation.

Three points that I think have led us to this "cluster":

1. I recognized from the beginning that AB had already made up his mind to allow this minimal, limited contact, so I thought it best to establish some boundaries SINCE he had already made up his mind.

2. Through ****edit********, they attacked what they THOUGHT they read, rather than what was posted, and I allowed myself to get dragged into an irrational exchange with a message board "cyber-bully". In retrospect, I should have just let them drive the thread into the ditch, rather than engage them on their erroneous assumptions about me.

3. Probably most importantly, *********that I challenged her on her advice on the "guilt" thread, which I still believe she was dead wrong on. Therefore, IMHO, the exchange on the "NO Contact" thread was a direct result of her wanting retribution about being challenged on the "guilt" thread.

No *******8will come back and mischaracterize what I posted on these threads, as I've found that message board cyber-bullies are incapable of allowing anyone else the last word, but luckily I'll never see it, and just ask that IF anyone cares, to go back and re-read both threads and make up their own minds about who started and maintained the animosity.

All I'm asking is that before any of you JUDGE me, at least take the time to read my words and interpret them for yourself, rather than simply take the mischaracterized description of me from someone who obviously has issues with me, and I think that is a fair request.

Sorry if I've upset the apple cart around here ... it was not my intent ... my issues are contained to personality differences with a handful of posters only.

I hope this helps to clarify this mess somewhat.

Oh, this will be good.

UuuOOOOga! UuuOOOOga!

Incoming!

Clear the conning tower! Close the hatches! Dive! Dive! Dive!

Red alert sounding in the halls of MB.

I'm behind the sofa...

***edit***********

M/R:

Thanks for responding.

I understand the "condescending arrogance of a few posters" around here. And as you state, it is available on other internet chat sites and places as well.

However, those posters have been here for a while.

And, I, (ahem) have been on the other side of thier "condescending arrogance" as well.

The point is this:

Like the gleaming House on the hill, we are always striving to reach it.

We may not fully live up to that, nor ever reach it, but you have to try.

***edit*****, others, etc, have not reached that top of the hill yet.

But they keep trying.

And they try to show others the way. They will help you get better footing and tell you when your handholds aren't good ones as well.

Sometimes they carry a big stick, ***edit** others deliver the message with a little bit more honey.

And I do not believe for a moment that anyone of them would put a foot on your hand to lift themselves higher on that hill.

Maybe you just wanted to lend an understanding ear to the original poster..."I'm there for you to talk to..."

That's ok, as well. Been there, Done that.

And like telling the wayward spouse that they need to:

Stop the affair!
Stop The Affair!
STOP THE AFFAIR!

And not understanding WHY they do not just listen to this logical advice.....

Batrayed Spouses can also not listen to the logical advice given to them either.

Each PERSON has to come to thier own conclusion. And make a choice.

As I said before, welcome to MB. Your input is valuable.

There is a difference around here as compared to other websites and locations.

You will not see someone Flamed or really rocked unless they really, really need it. (I.E. someone in an active affair trying to justify it...)

OWL was right, you did get the kidgloves, but the kid gloves were close to getting dropped.

AB needs to make a choice. And that choice may mean that his M may take much longer to get fixed. We are sad about that around here, we want him to succeed sooner.

I'm more interested in having AB, and yourself, stay around here, posting, reading and learning.

Because, if this particular thing will not be addressed, other things can be, which might, in the long run, make it easier to address the outstanding issue.

And Yes, I drank the koolaid.

But it really tasted good!

LG

M/R:

You posted this before I finished my second post on this thread.

"I will admit to having a personality conflict with******edit********** ... I just don't care for those personality characteristics, and see no reason to deal with them on my free time."

Chrisner is right, and the depth charges are on thier way.

Justuss will lock this thread, and we all get our noses out of joint.

And tommorrow, other folks will show up looking for help.

Will you be available to do so?

I recommend that you leave it alone.

LG


PS:

Chris: Good job on the "UuuOOOOga! You got it right!

Post deleted by mkeverydaycnt

**** go back and read ****'s post. I don't think ****was directing that at you. He expected fallout about *****s dig against you and others.

*****************************

*************

Funny...

I presumed MDEC made the mistake purposely.

I actually LOL'ed

Brilliant ironic sarcasm.

Don't ya think?

Mr. Wondering