I have a meeting with WH and a really good friend tomorrow to organize our finances and settle visitation issues during our separation, which began last week. I asked him to leave on Dday, but he'd had an apartment already lined up anyways.

According to emails that verified the affair, supplied by OWH, WH thinks he is "in love" with OW and they are musing about spending the rest of their lives together. Therefore, I need to fix my mind to understand that he is going to come to the table with an agenda, based on their best interests. For all practical purposes, I will need to think of him as her husband, not mine.

This will be hard. Since D-Day, he has been more respectful and communicative toward me than he has been in years. The past several weeks had been especially horrific, where I have been Plan A'ing him flawlessly, and his response has been complete disrespect and dismissiveness. I wonder if this positive change in demeanor results from me no longer being an obstacle between him and what he has wanted for years: OW. She's kicked her husband out of the house, and he moved into his apartment today. Though living separately, they are free. Whatever his reason for being kind, it has been nice to be treated like a human being. He is so soft with me, even protective and attentive.

Anyways, WH planned out a visitation scenario with his therapist. They thought it would be best for our daughter if he came by every day for a couple of hours after work, and I decided I would tolerate that for our daughter's sake. He has been visiting consistently. I have told him that sometimes I can't see him because the pain is too great, and he is usually respectful of that, giving me my space. Other times, it as though he is pained not seeing me, and comes up with excuses for me to come downstairs. I sense a very strong attraction between us during those times. But if it's a bad day, and I've thought a lot about all his deception, I'll snap at him from afar, and he'll lay off.

My question is: should I be doing a Plan B at this point? I feel like I need to get a chance to heal, without seeing his face. Also, I don't even know if I want him back, but I wonder if not seeing me, as he craves, would result in the wake-up call he needs to end this affair. Also, it is as though by coming by every day, he is still getting his family fix. Our daughter needs to see him, but maybe I can insist he pick her up somewhere else, not our house. That way, he'll get to experience loss of family times as a result of his actions. Recently, he claimed that his therapist thinks he should eat dinner with her here. That seems a bit too comfortable, like he is still, literally, cake eating.

My other question is: should I help pay for his apartment? He thinks I should, and plans to bring that up at the meeting. I don't. The day after Dday, I opened up a new bank account with half our savings, my half of our marital assets. A lawyer advised me to do that, to avoid being left destitute if WH went off the deep end after being exposed. WH didn't appreciate that I opened the account, but I can't trust him, so I've kept it. We continue to pay our bills and the mortgage out of our checking account, where both our paychecks are direct deposited.

There is no money available in our paychecks to pay for an apartment, so when he decided to rent one behind my back, he also made the decision that it would be paid for out of our savings. He just didn't foresee that I'd take out my half. I think that if he worries that his portion of savings will run out, he should take that up with OW, not me. Her husband told me he detected her looking for apartments for WH on her computer. Two Sundays ago, he emailed her that he had a special surprise for her on Monday; since cancelled checks verify that he placed his deposit that Monday, OWH and I strongly believe that he took her over to see the apartment. Well, more power to them. Why should I pay? I think if they have to worry about budgeting for their love nest, it will poke a hole in their fantasy.

He says it's not fair that he has to pay a portion of the mortgage, plus all of the apartment. I say that we bought this house together, to support our family. He rented that apartment without my consent, to support his affair. Too bad.

Thoughts?

Oh, and I am considering filing for divorce. The idea of him having an apartment and "dating" seems incompatible with marriage, wouldn't you say? From what he's told close friends, he has no interest in filing anytime soon, and wonders if we might reconcile. But this is just wrong: I can't stand the idea of him revisiting his bachelor days and expecting me to wait around and see what happens. He says he has only kissed OW--which I don't believe--but admitted that with an apartment they could end up having sex. If a break from our marriage was what he was looking for during separation, he could have sought out a roommate or stayed with friends or family. He got an apartment for privacy, while he does whatever he wants even though he's married. And that makes me sick.

I wonder if tomorrow night during the meeting would be the time to tell him sayonara.

Today I saw him wearing his wedding ring. Why? He dumped me. I threw mine in a drawer on Dday.

I would pass on all that and get yourself the meanest junkyard dog lawyer you can find who can rip his balls out and make him think twice about sauntering off with his mistress. What he is hoping for is your COOPERATION in an amicable divorce so he can walk away easily with his affair partner. If you COOPERATE, you will be cooperating in your own demise and helping them set up for their affair.

Instead, give him second thoughts by making him fight tooth and nail for every scrap he gets.

So, get yourself a good lawyer and protect yourself. Don't make it easy for him to destroy your marriage. Let your LAWYER duke it out with him.

Get yourself protected financially and then go into Plan B.

DON'T GO TO THAT MEETING!

Well, I have not experienced going through mediation, but I have had two consultations with two different attorneys and can offer a little insight.

First, good job on taking out half the savings, that was a very smart move since your WH is making poor financial decisions.

However, I would also get your own checking account and have your check direct deposited into it instead of the joint checking. You can always transfer funds to the joint checking to pay for any bills if you need to, but if your WH decides to spend YOUR half of the money in the joint account, there is nothing you can do legally to stop him.

Also, I would not help him in any way finance the apartment. It is his choice not to make the marriage work at this time, so he should fund his own living arrangement.

I also experienced daily visits to the marital home by my WH to see our DS. It was extremely difficult as he was not as amiable as your WH seems to be. So I initiated plan B two weeks ago and I stopped all visits from being conducted here and also ended his loafing around the house and eating my dinners.

I too was hoping that it would have some effect on my WH, but so far, nothing seems to show any positive changes. I thought he would miss the family time with me and our DS as well, but that doesn't seem to be the case in my situation.

This is not to say that your WH won't respond, I just don't want you to be disappointed if that doesn't happen. In my case, my WH just increased his phone calls to his friends and the OW to compensate for my lack of communication with him. He is also busy moving into his new condo this weekend so it's not as if he's pining away for home with all he's got going on.

Your WH may do the same and busy himself with the OW and their future plans, so unless you are really ready to deal with that possibility, I would continue to plan A until you feel you simply cannot endure his presence any longer.

Lastly, is this a legally binding mediation? If so, have you consulted an attorney prior to this meeting to ensure that you won't be taken advantage of? If you have children, you really want to make sure that you fully understand what you are entitled to under the law. Agreeing to terms in a separation case without knowing your rights, is not wise in my opinion.

I have refused to go to mediation with my WH because we have been married for over 10 years, own a home, and have two children together. I don't want to agree to anything which would prevent me from being able to provide the best care possible for myself and my children.

Don't let your WH's friendliness lull you into a sense of security. You are correct when you say that he is looking out for his own interests and not those of you and your family. You need to take care of yourself and your child.

Hope this helps a little. Good luck tomorrow.

Thanks for all the great advice. I agree completely with not making it easy for him as he continues the affair.

Over the course of the past few painful months, I have witnessed my husband's great capacity for deception. So now, while he seems remorseful and attentive, I've had the proverbial "gut feeling." It's the same uneasiness I felt back when he started this affair. But then I believed the best of him despite the evidence, eventually to my own detriment.

So here I am again. Despite seeing that he wrote "I love you" to another woman just a couple of weekends ago, and called her by my nickname, I want to believe that missing me has resulted in him reconsidering that declaration, and that his compassion toward me is genuine. I want to believe that seeing me moving forward and being so strong and noticing how respectful I've been toward him despite his betrayal has impacted him. And that's why he's wearing his wedding ring.

But I can see with my own eyes that he moved into his apartment yesterday. He went in our kitchen and methodically grabbed two of everything. Two cups. Two forks. And he went upstairs and grabbed two sleeping bags because he doesn't have a bed yet. She may not live there, but they are playing house.

So, I'm still a little confused as to Plan B. It seems as though it will make it easier for him to put me out of his mind and move forward with OW. Kind of like how I wanted him to quit his job and never have contact with her again. I don't think I am Plan A'ing him either. Ironically, he seems to be Plan A'ing me -- but with different motives. He keeps using the word "amicable" to describe how we're relating to each other right now. We have agreed to be pleasant for our daughter's sake. But it seems as though, with the terminology he used, he's planning for divorce, not Plan A'ing to keep me. If I Plan B him, it won't be possible to be kind for the sake of our daughter. So, I was wondering what the end goal would be in Plan B at this point.

Sorry if I rambled. I'm confused.

The meeting we have with the friend tonight is not legally binding. It's just to sort through immediate issues. I'm the one who set it up, and WH had been reluctant. I also suggested legal mediation if we decide to divorce, for the sake of our daughter and to save money. Two lawyer friends of mine concurred on my reasoning. Our savings are low and we have a huge property tax bill to pay off in a few months -- I will need to contribute half from my portion. His dumb affair is going to financially ruin us. I hope this mediation tonight makes this crystal clear to him. He should have moved in with his parents or brother.

That all said, I reserve the right to file with a cutthroat atty any time in the future. I'm still wondering: should I just go ahead and file? I'm still on the fence as to whether or not I still want the marriage. But him playing house with her seems as though it should be the last straw.

Thanks for helping me to decide not to pay for the apartment out of my assets. I expect a fight tonight. But it's good. He needs to see that I have a backbone.

I would consider what you called "marital assests" as "family assets". Instead of taking 1/2...I think it should be divided in thirds (one piece of the pie for all 3 of you). Then, instead of removing 1/2 you should have taken 2/3.

I also think these "negotiations" are unwise because you shouldn't be so accepting of his daily visits. It's impossible to negotiate with a terrorist and though you hope to keep WH in your daugters life it is not your job to be the martyr. It's also not a very good lesson for your daughter to observe you allowing yourself to be abused by this man and yet respectful and inviting of him into your home. Let your lawyer negotiate with him..to do otherwise just makes you the big bad bitter BW and further rationalizes his behavior.

WH is not your friend and never will be again unless he ends his affair and recommits to the marriage before you've moved on. HIS time is limited. His choice.

Plan B should be forthcoming soon but don't jump the gun on it. Plan it.

Good luck,

Mr. Wondering

Imagination, let me ask you another question. What would be the end goal of more Plan A? This is what? A 10 yr affair? You have been posting here for years - you had another name - and have been in Plan A for years. You see the result. So I am curious about what you think would be different this time?

And really, that is all I am going to contribute here. Many folks have posted to you endlessly over the years and you never took our advice about anything, exposure, nothing. You couldn't be bothered to even expose to the OWH. This affair has evolved to this point because you wouldn't lift a finger to stop it.

So I am not prepared to waste my time trying to convince you to help yourself when we both know you won't lift a finger to help yourself.

You want to cooperate with the seperation, go for it. You want to do a few more years of plan A, go for it. Its all the same to me. I am sorry to be so harsh, but I can't be motivated to put more into your situation than you are. You won't lift a finger, then neither will I.

Melody, I changed my name because I thought my WH found this website. I wasn't trying to hide or deceive. That's my WH's role. I have not been doing a true Plan A for years. I have been LB'ing all over the place. Only recently had I really clued into what he needs -- even his OW wrote about how I was meeting his needs in one of their correspondences. But, it was too late.

And you're right -- I could have acted sooner on these MB principles. In a post in someone else's thread a couple of days ago, I took full responsibility for my marriage's demise, and encouraged that person not to make my same mistakes.

As you may have remembered, I was afraid to expose to OWH because he is cop. He ended up exposing to me. Now he is stalking them. I don't know if I mentioned it here, but I did expose to his parents. They did nothing. I exposed to his employer. Nothing. They said it is none of their business. Now they are fully out with the affair at work, and call it "dating." Nobody cares.

I have no intention of continuing Plan A. I am in limbo. I'm trying to do what is best for my daughter, by being civil. Unintentionally, that has seemed to draw him closer to me. But I know he can't be trusted, so it's probably not that at all. I appreciated your kick in the pants on that.

I honestly and sincerely don't know when and why to proceed to Plan B. Mr. Wondering just said to wait. I am COnFusED.

If you don't want to post to me anymore, I understand. But just to be clear, I AM trying to lift a finger. And I am NOT going to pay for his apartment.

I am really having a hard time today -- and I know, in the long run, it is of my own doing. But the incredible, incredible pain is still here, and I appreciate any support, advice and encouragement that people would like to provide on how best to proceed, how best to survive.

Imgination, alot of folks gave you advice above to NOT negotiate with your H today, and as usual, you ignored that advice. MrW, an attorney took his time to post to you and you ignored him; he told you:


It is a strategic mistake to negotiate directly unless you want to just get a divorce.

You just ignored all that advice from him and others as you usually do. Just as you ignored our advice to expose the OWH for YEARS, allowing this affair to evolve to this current state.

Instead, you latched onto MrW's one statement about Plan B and misinterpreted it in a way to help you avoid IT. He said "Plan B should be forthcoming." Not that you should WAIT.

The thing is, Imagination, people want to help you, but you don't want to be helped. You have consistently come here and asked for advice and IGNORED IT for years. Your best thinking got you into this mess, yet you continue to rely on your own counsel.

I just meant don't go to Plan B overnight without a plan.

Draft a letter and post it

Get an attorney and get a temporary agreement on custody and support OR just dictate your terms (he leaves with nothing to his cozy little apartment...takes no furniture or anything but a suitcase of clothing and personal items...and can come visit your daughter on Wednesday nights by taking her to dinner somewhere without OW being around and brings her home in a couple hours).


Problem is...from what I read above is you want to do Plan B to change him...make him miss you and the family...etc., instead of Plan B'ing for YOU. Plan B is for peace. For YOU to begin your recovery such that you can withdraw from this abusive cheatin' man and get perspective. He MAY wake up but that is not your concern.

If you aren't ready and able to do Plan B properly then it's worthless. You've got to take a few days or a week to wrap up loose ends and prepare to go completely dark on him. Otherwise it's just a ploy that he will see as manipulating. IF you allow him to easily break the darkness...over and over, it won't wake him up and it won't give you peace so YOU can recover.

I am discouraged by what I've just read by Melody Lane. I trust her implicitly and realize now that I've stepped into a minefield of inaction. Nothing frustrates me more than talking to a BS in the fog. That's you...isn't it? Perhaps you need Plan B way more than your husband does so YOU can start thinking about your life more clearly.

Mr. Wondering

Mr. Wondering -- thanks for your response. That's exactly what I was hoping for: concrete, specific advice for next steps.

I did talk to a divorce lawyer/friend yesterday, and she advised me to move forward with the meeting with the mediator/friend last night. There are just too many loose ends, and they are preventing my healing process. The meeting turned out as well as it could, though it was definitely painful. Because I still love this man.

I listened to your advice about limiting visitation. He can still see our daughter six days, but half of those days will be at his house, not mine. He balked at first, saying that HE would miss the comforts of our home, but then conceded. Ultimately, he knows that he made a choice when he walked out the door in pursuit of another woman.

He also conceded on his request that I help pay for his apartment. I wasn't budging -- I told him that I'm looking at the prospect of being a single mom, I'm vulnerable, and I have no idea what sort of spousal/child support I should expect to receive. His earning potential is much greater than mine -- he can recoop the loss to his half of our assets. He said I wasn't being fair because he was helping to pay the mortgage. I said that whereas we decided together to expend our income on a new home for our family, he made an independent decision to rent an apartment for himself, behind my back, using our savings. Therefore, I am not responsible -- not legally, according to my friend/lawyer. WH couldn't see my point, and he was peeved that I didn't seem concerned for his living situation and conditions. He said he had to no choice but to get an expensive apartment in a nice area, because he didn't want to live somewhere that was "depressing." (Sigh) I said that when he was planning to leave our home, he could have gone on Craigslist and found a roommate, or lived with friends or family. Furthermore, he is a grown man. I have no idea what kind of apartment our daughter and I are going to find, in what kind of neighborhood we might find ourselves, so he needed to understand my need to preserve my assets. We want to be safe, too. If he is taking a big hit on his share of our assets, that's his decision. Find somewhere cheaper. He got flustered. I wasn't trying to be cold, but come on.

Then the mediator said, "Well, if you can't come to agreement, take it to court." He wasn't interested in doing that. Can you imagine Judge Judy's face?

In the beginning of our discussion, he said he wants to get a divorce, just not right away. By the end of our discussion, he said he's not "mentally capable" of filing for one right now. He'd like to wait until our home sells, which he thinks could be six months from now. The mediator suggested he get a real estate agent this week, and he about fell apart and said he's not ready.

I could tell he was really hurting, and he was soft towards me as he was leaving, whereas he had arrived in attack mode -- not doubt fueled by insecure OW. This all sucks. The codependent in me wanted to comfort him, but that's out of the question.

Thanks for the further details on the purpose of Plan B. The reason I have been trying to stay away from him is to heal and find peace. And then it ends up feeling like a ploy when he tracks me down and is responsive, so then my motivations deteriorate. And then I don't insist that he leave me alone -- because I am lonely and I miss my long-time companion. Not a good situation.

Based on what you've said, I really, really need this Plan B. My friends who have no idea of MB tell me this, that I just need to get away from this man, to find myself again. I wrote a letter before, so I just need to change the words around a bit. Thanks for suggesting I post it -- hope you'll look at it.

Oh, and about OW contact -- when WH was going to have our daughter on Saturday, I politely told him that morning that I didn't want her to be exposed to seeing him with another woman yet. He told me he completely agreed, and that his therapist said he shouldn't be around her kids either.

That's about it. Thanks for you input.

He gets to see your daughter SIX times a week???

With THREE of those visits to occur in YOUR home???

You realize the court would likely, at best, give him every other weekend and Wednesday evenings??

You realize this will make Plan B difficult??

Why would you agree with that?

A wayward husband is the middle of a infidelity crisis is no place for a young lady to be. She needs your protection but your more concerned with protecting his relationship with her. He not that concerned about it...OR ELSE HE'D BE HOME and NOT having an affair.

You shouldn't be protecting your WH from the consequences of his actions. I am torn about letting your daughter spend any time at the loveshack apartment. I do want the meetings to occur outside your home...but his affair apartment. No...she shouldn't spend one night there. That's why I suggested he take her out a few hours on Wednesdays and maybe he can spend saturday and/or Sunday afternoons with her. This 6 nights of visitation a week is setting a terrible precedent which COULD end up biting you in the butt. Courts like to maintain the status quo whenever they can. His excessive visitation MAY result in lower child support payments to you if it becomes the court order. I hope these are just visits and she is spending every night at home in her bed in your house.

Don't negotiate with him anymore than you already have. Get an attorney and perhaps file. He is so not ready to make any decision in his life and will NOT do so until you make it readily apparent a decision MUST be made. This out of court settlement thingy is just making things too easy on him. You need to start protecting you and your daughter.

Mr. Wondering

Hi Mr. Wondering --

Thank you for the kick in the butt.

She just spends a couple of hours with him and not overnight -- he says his therapist thinks she should sleep in her own bed. He's told me that he won't always take her to his place, but to the park and out and about. It sounds as though he, too, may be squeamish about her being at his pad.

The mediator suggested she stay over on Friday nights since he'll have her all day Saturday, and he came up with a quick, lame excuse for why that wouldn't work. He's balked about her even napping at his place, apparently not cognizant of the fact that if we get a divorce, he needs to get her a bed eventually. It was a revelation to him that perhaps he should have some toys for her there. He's not thinking about the fact that not only has he made me a single mom, he's a single dad, and his place is not going to be his own.

For the record, I'm not more concerned about his relationship with her. I'm on the same page with you: I lost sympathy when he abandoned her. I'm concerned about her seeing her daddy, who she adores and asks about all day long. I don't think he can keep up all these visits, based on the strain on his face when I suggested that he pick her up, instead of hang out here. I actually *was* trying to have him face the consequences of divorce.

As for a divorce...while telling me last night that he wants one, he's also told friends that he's waiting for some epiphany before he decides whether he'll try to reconcile with me. In other words, he wants the decision made for him, out of thin air. Kind of like I hoped their affair would just end, and sat on my hands. Two peas, aren't we?

The only way our marriage can be reconciled if we both make a conscious, unified decision to seek professional therapy together -- absent of a third party in the background. He's not willing to do that; it's like some kind of mental block. He'd rather throw away a 20-year relationship, with obvious unresolved issues, for the sake of a emotionally unstable chick with two small kids and a angry, BS who legally carries a gun.

Thus, we're done. You're right. I should file. Why does that thought feel so liberating right now? Kind of like an epiphany.