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I will try to keep it short, but I fear it will get long. Please bear with me.

I met my wife in high school, she was dating someone at the time when we started going out. I guess that is now biting me in the [censored]. We were voted cutest couple <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />. We went to separate colleges, she went to France for a year and we still managed to stay together. I got accepted to med school and asked her to join me. During my 2nd year we got married.

I always figured we had something unique and special. We've now been married 15 years and have twins, 5 years old. She had been making a 6 figure salary, but quit to stay home with the kids when they were born.

For the past year we haven't been getting along well, she would leave the room when I entered, get off the couch if I sat next to her, go to bed early, etc. all the classic signs. She refused all my attempts to improve things. I got tired of basically begging her for sex (when she would just offer a hand, rather than true intimacy I said no thanks, I still have some self respect). After 6 months of no sex I asked her if she would join me in counseling. She agreed, and said she would find one for us. After a month, nothing. I asked her again and she said she wanted to go alone, and that I should find a different counselor on my own. I didn't get it.

I finally got her to go to my counselor with me at catholic family services, maybe 5 months ago. We got nowhere. One night I told her that none of this made any sense and the only thing that would make all the puzzle pieces fit is if there was a third party involved. I asked her flat out if she was cheating on me or if she had ever cheated. Without so much as a blink she denied it. But I saw new clothes, new underwear, more distance between us, and now the kids were in preschool from 9:00 til noon.

Then about 6 weeks ago, power went out in my office so I had the morning off, I started driving towards the kids school, hoping I could take her out for coffee and talk. As I was dialing her phone I saw her pass me going the other direction. When I asked her to meet me she said "No, I just pulled into Walmart to get some things, I'll see you at home." Well, I just saw her so why was she lying, so I decided to follow her as she drove to a park. I parked across the street and saw her greet and kiss some guy and proceed to give him a gift (shirts from the ball game the night before, my kids first baseball game and she bought shirts with my money to give to him.)

I was furious, but decided not to approach them, I know I would definitely have gotten violent, and I'm not a small man.

That night I took the kids with me to the gym as the wife said she had a cooking class. I grew more and more angry and on the drive home called her and told her I knew everything and that I would see her at home. I basically told her she had one chance with me, tell me everything right now, call him on the phone in front of me and tell him she'd never see him again and we begin agressive counseling tomorrow, OR I call the lawyer in the morning. She basically told me she couldn't commit any time or effort to me and refused to call him. The next morning I did call a lawyer. However, while I was calling the lawyer she claims to have called him and told him she wouldn't see him until we had separated and she also made an appointment to see our priest.

I have been reading everything I can and while looking up this site decided to call Dr. Harley's radio program. I've read 'Surviving an Affair' and 'His Needs, Her Needs'. I have to honestly say that these 2 books make perfect sense to me.

My wife is saying all the classic things, 'I just don't feel love for you', 'I can't change how I feel', "I want this divorce to be friendly for the kids sake', and on and on. Out of respect for her mother (who is HIV+ and very vulnerable) I asked my wife to visit her and tell her everything before moving out. My wife agreed and told her mother a very limited version. She also told her brother who unfortunately also had hid wife cheat on him after 12 years of marriage and 2 kids. Both her mother and brother have spoken with me and are in complete disbelief that this is happening. But nothing changes my wife's outlook, not her mother, brother, 2 priests, my mother or anything else.

I've been reading books like 'The unexpected legacy of divorce' and she'll go buy and read 'Mom's house, Dad's House". I'm reading Dr. Harley's books and she's reading "Too good to leave, Too bad to stay". She just counters everything I've done.

So right now I'm back to the gym, working out at 5:30 every morning, signing up for dance classes alone, I still invite her to go out with me on Saturdays but she declines so I go out alone and meet friends. And every night I come home and see a stack of print outs on homes for rent that she is looking at. If I ask her if she's looking for a job, she says no. When I ask how she expects to pay for all this she replies "With OUR money". It's so frustrating. She is even going to a church group meeting every week for divorced and separtated people (we are not yet separated and she has not told them she's the WS for fear of being chastised).

Bottom line is this; I truly believe I can forgive her if she works on forgiveness with me. I believe we can survive this and make a truly different marriage together. I don't want her to stay in an unhappy marriage, I want to make a happy marriage together. I want to love her again and I truly care about her soul, her future and her well being, as well as that of our children. She just keeps saying that we will always have a relationship as parents, and that with time she believes we will be friends again, but does not believe there is any way that she could love me again, be close or intimate with me and want out so she can be alone with 'her' thoughts, out from under the guilt and judgments of others. She just doesn't 'buy it' that she can feel love again. And she's also used the line, 'this has nothing to do with the OP, this is about how I feel towards you"

I'm sorry I went on so long, I guess this is just therapy for me. Any help, any suggestion, any hope/prayers/support is appreciated.

Last edited by lito; 10/02/07 02:10 PM.
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Cut off the money supply now or else it will be all gone before it can be divided.

Right now she can get it all, and you need to snoop double time to gather evidence to expose to everyone.

You can bet she flat out lied to the priest.


I watch, and am as a sparrow alone upon the house top.
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And she's also used the line, 'this has nothing to do with the OP, this is about how I feel towards you"

Yep, I loved that one. "Our marriage and the affair have nothing to do with each other."

You gotta love wayward logic.

So......You have read the right books so must have a pretty good grasp of Plan A and emotional needs. How are you doing with that and capping all lovebusters?

And the biggie; who is the OM? Is he married? Exposure to his side must begin now. Exposure to all is the best weapon to kill the affair.

The affair must be killed to begin any recovery if you want that.

You need to protect your finances and children legally now.


Testosterone boys! Testosterone! It ain’t just for nose, ear and back hair anymore!
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She is even going to a church group meeting every week for divorced and separtated people (we are not yet separated and she has not told them she's the WS for fear of being chastised).

There is another group to expose to.

Expose to everyone who will put pressure on her.

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Any help, any suggestion, any hope/prayers/support is appreciated.

These are all good but what you need is a plan.


Testosterone boys! Testosterone! It ain’t just for nose, ear and back hair anymore!
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I'm in plan A, but honestly feel that it will soon become plan B. I think I'm doing a decent job of avoiding love busters. However, I have a hard time fighting the urge to talk about our relationship. I tend to be a 'fixer', once I know there's a problem I want to address it, not wait. That annoys her, I'm sure, she believes I'm the guy who always has to be right, so I am doing my best not to discuss our relationship. I'm guessing what her needs are. I've asked her to fill out the questionaire, and I saw her reading it, but ultimately she said it was too difficult and has not picked it up again. I fear that if I ask her again , it will only push her away as it me trying to fix things again.

The OP is an owner of a nursery who I hired to put some plants in our landscaping 2 years ago. The odd thing is that I can remember him flirting with her, but I completely trusted her and forgot about it after telling her it annoyed me. I left my business card on the front door of his business the day after I found out. I haven't heard from him and have been counseled not to confront him. He is single and I suspect he's a player. She's told me that she doesn't expect to have a relationship with him, doesn't expect him to stick around (although I have a hard time believing that, after a 2 year affair).

With finances, we have a joint credit card, joint checking, and joint money market. I feel like a fool for giving so much trust. I worry about closing all these accounts at this point and putting them all in my name alone. I was waiting to see if she was willing to work on it or move out. But as I think about it, I guess I need to do it now and if she gets pissed, oh well. I was concerned that doing that prematurely would only confirm to her that I'm controlling or that she's dependent on me and drive her away.

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Close all the accounts and cut off ALL funds.

My wife stole EVERYTHING just before she filed and I lost it ALL. Don't trust her even one inch.

PERIOD!!!!!


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I have a hard time fighting the urge to talk about our relationship.

I did too and I think it hurt my cause bad. Avoid this at all cost.

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I feel like a fool for giving so much trust.

She can't be trusted at all. They Lie. They Lie A lot.

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She's told me that she doesn't expect to have a relationship with him, doesn't expect him to stick around

The first part is a lie, the second part may end up true but she told it as a lie.

Is she still actively seeing him? You may have to track down his family if he is single.

I suppose she plans on taking the kids when she leaves?

If you want to save your family or even have a chance to do it you need to take off the gloves now and fight for it.


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Are you sure he is single? If uncertain you should confirm that.


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Find out more about OM and tell his family, friends, business, etc. about what he is doing. Move this thread over to the General Questions II forum. If you don't want a divorce, don't go along with one. You still need to give her access to some of the funds because she does stay at home with the kids, but I would just deposit a little money in her account to take care of the kids. If you put pressure on OM, he'll likely ditch your WW. He's playing her because she's an easy target. If you turn up the heat, he might leave your WW alone. I would confront OM at his work (without any physical confrontation and a friend as a witness) and tell him to leave your wife alone in front of his fellow coworkers. Cut off all access possible to OM. Turn off her cell phone if you have to, block or shut off email, and put GPS on her car. If she tries to go meet him, see if someone can break things up. If you don't want to get a D, you don't have to accept one. Put your foot down and don't allow her to continue this behavior. Also, tell her you don't want divorce, and if she chooses that option, it won't be civil. Expose to anyone in a position to pressure her to end her affair, your priest, her friends, family, etc. One poster here had their MIL move in for a while until his WW was over OM. You still have some control here. Exert your control in a loving but stern way.


Jim

BS - 32 (me)
FWW - 33
Married 8/31/03
No kids (but 3 cats)
D-Days - 8/25/06 (EA), 11/3/06 (PA)
NC agreed to - 11/8/06
NC broken - 11/28/06, 12/16/06, 1/18/07, 1/26/07, 1/27/07
Status - In Recovery
Jim's Story
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So your wife is messing wih the gardner.

She really dropped a few rungs on the ladder with that winner.


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Expose. Do it now before she has moved out. You won't be able to make any progress on your marriage while she is involved in an A, you have to stop it and exposure is the best tool in your arsenal. Tell the priest, tell the support group (they might as well be supporting the truth, right?) tell her family and stop supporting the A financially. Tell her that the money you two have accumulated is to support the family, not her and another man. Make it as hard for the A to continue as you possibly can. This OM might be a player, as you said. The more difficult you make it the less attractive she will become to him and he might move on to greener pastures.

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One other thing: wear a condom if you have sex with her.

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I agree with all the post and since you have read Dr. Harleys books you should be well prepared. I do however, get the feeling that you are having difficulty in cutting the ties. You MUST look out for yourself and your children first. I don't think that it can be emphasized enough the UTMOST importance that you close ALL financial roads off to her. Don't get caught up with her portrayal as a victum or feel sorry for her.

AND NO SEX!!!!! This wil be your ultimate downfall if you give into physical weakness.

Best to you my friend and I am so sorry for you having to go through this.

Prayers be with you!!!!

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Don't have to worry about sex, that is not an option. We haven't had any in a year, ******, she'll hardly sit on the couch next to me. The worst thing is that I gave her access to everything. When she worked we decided to have a joint credit card which is paid off every month, joint checking, etc, She has set up our cell phones in her name (she used to work for the phone co.), internet is in her name, she was smart and I trusted her, now I feel the fool. I am going to the bank today, to see what my options are. I am having a new credit card issued in my name and taken off the joint account. I was surprised when I called the credit card company that she had her name listed as primary, so I have to 'get permission' to change the account. How's that for a slap, when she hasn't worked in over 5 years. So, I'll have to get the banking done first, I fear once I 'get permission' to change the cc acount, the s*&t will hit the fan.

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The MIL idea is a good one. She's coming in 5 days for the kids birthday. She has stayed for prolonged periods before, up to 3 months. I'm gonna call her right now, thanks jmwc95.

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If you know her social and her security question (mother's maiden name?), just get your sister to call up and cancel things.


Jim

BS - 32 (me)
FWW - 33
Married 8/31/03
No kids (but 3 cats)
D-Days - 8/25/06 (EA), 11/3/06 (PA)
NC agreed to - 11/8/06
NC broken - 11/28/06, 12/16/06, 1/18/07, 1/26/07, 1/27/07
Status - In Recovery
Jim's Story
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Lito,

Feel so bad for you!! I know this isn't easy but at least you know! Some of us like myself are in limbo without knowing the truth.

I started a separate bank account and am in the near future closing my connection with the cc. The same as you, some are in her name as the primary.

I have found a way to get through that though especially since she is not working. Call the cc and tell them that YOU pay the installments and that she is unemployed and if they want their money then they will have to work with YOU.
In addition, I would shoot off a certified letter stating that from the effective date you are separated and will no longer be responsible for her charges. Do that with all of the cc.

Dont worry my friend physicians are not lonely for long!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

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Lito - Let's start with the basics, okay?

1. You need to separate your feelings and emotions from your logic, rational thinking, your responsibilities before God for not just your wife, but yourself and your children.

2. You are the head of the household by decree of God. Whether or not you choose to "shoulder" that responsibility will have bearing on the consequences for YOUR choices. That there will be consequences is a given because all choices and actions have consequences, so "ignoring" or "procrastinating" are also decisions that will not "make things better all by themselves."

3. You love your wife. Loving your wife, in this instance where infidelity has replaced the woman you loved and married with an "alien," you must think about the application of "tough love." You WON'T "like" some of the things that you must do, but they are an "effect" of the "cause" (infidelity by your wife) that must happen if you are to have any chance at ending the affair and recovering your marriage (assuming recovery rather than divorce is what you decide to choose - the choice IS yours both biblically and legally).

4. NOTHING you do, not plan A, not meeting her Emotional Needs as you are able to, not feeling hurt and/or angry, etc., will end the affair. Nothing you do will have any effect UNTIL the affair is ended.

5. Your ONLY goal at this point, concerning the marriage and your wife, if you have chosen to attempt to recover your marriage, is to END THE AFFAIR. Not a thing you can do that are directed at "recovery" efforts will even "register" in your wife's mind while the affair is ongoing, or even after it has ended and she enters the Withdrawal phase. Only AFTER withdrawal has passed (or at least the most intense phase of it) will your efforts be able to be seen, and perhaps appreciated, by your wife.

6. Therefore, EXPOSURE of the affair is Step One. You expose the affair to the "light of day" to anyone who has a "need to know." That is family, friends, church officials, etc. (See Matthew 18:15-20 for God's plan for "church discipline" with the goal of repentance and restoration of a sinner)

7. Since the OM is single and owns his own business, contact a lawyer and strongly consider, or actually go forward with, an "Alienation of Affection" suit against the OM. Even if your State is not one that still has "teeth" in such suits, it WILL drag him into court. I'm betting that alone would tend to "destablize" the affair from his perspective. Yes, it will "piss-off" your wife, but let's get real here...she is already in the "arms of another man," so what are you REALLY risking? Don't let your potential fears of "driving her away and to the OM" stop you from "fighting the good fight" for your wife and family, she IS already with the OM.

8. Hire a PI and have the OM followed. Document everything related to the affair. Divorce procedings may happen even if YOU don't initiate it.

9. IMMEDIATELY separate all funds to not only protect yourself, but more importantly to protect your children. A Wayward Spouse WILL drain money for the support of the affair faster than you can blink an eye.

10. Cancel all credit cards, debit cards, etc. and get them reissued in your name only. If that seems "harsh," please remind yourself that she engaged in the Affair without your knowledge or permission, she unilaterally decided to end the marriage while continuing to your the MARITAL assets to support and continue her affair, and you already know she has been buying some things for the OM. She IS using the JOINT assets to support her Individual, unlawful, activities.

11. Speak to an attorney about Divorce For Cause. Make it clear to your wife that you will NOT allow for an "amicable divorce" or a simple "no fault" divorce when there IS fault, and that fault lies at her feet.

Lito, this is going to be a very tough time for you emotionally, so keep posting and getting information, support, and advice from the members here on MB. DO NOT tell your wife about MB or where you might be getting your information. Like it or not, ending an affair and getting to the point where you might be able to enter recovery is a WAR. She will attempt to play on your love and emotions for her, all the while remaining lost in "Fogland" and committed to the Affair. She will try her best to manipulate you into "allowing" her to continue the Affair "without objection or without Consequences."

If your wife is a believer in Christ, then she also needs to know that God is quite clear about Adultery. NO unrepentant adulterer or adulteress will be in heaven. That means very clearly that her actions are a "soul issue."

From the RCC standpoint, Adultery is a "Mortal Sin." The position of the RCC is that anyone who is engaged in Adultery has already lost their salvation. I don't happen to agree with that, but since God HAS said that no unrepentant adulterers will be in heaven, at the bare minimum it SHOULD cause an adulterer who professes belief in Christ to examine themselves to see if they truly DO believe. The "repentance" would be the key issue. Repentance MEANS not just sincere sorrow about sin that has been committed, it means TURNING AWAY and LEAVING the sin. Therefore, the Affair MUST end.

So you ARE also in a war for her soul. Now is not the time to be timid, but to take actions that are consistant with God's covenant of marriage and that are obedient to God's commands to believers, in general, and to husbands in specific. It is a time when you have to "stand for God" first, even IF she chooses to leave in direct disobedience to God herself.

God bless.

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This is similar to my wife's case. See my story here. My wife justifies her affair using Romans 13:10 "Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law". She said since she has true love with OM, therefore all other laws are fulfilled, not violated. I was speechless by her "cherry picking". I haven't exposed her to her pastor yet, but I did expose her to MIL. She is still talking to OM for about 3 hours about every other day, while at same time telling me that she is trying to feel in love with me again.

I decided to cool things down before telling her pastor. At this point, I really don't know what is the proper action.

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Ningsean - twisting and rationalization is the "norm" for Wayward Spouses seeking to justify and rationalize the willfull sinning against God, so your wife's statement is not surprising.

"True love" does not willfully sin against God and God's commandment is quite clear, "Thou shall NOT commit adultery." In addition, the Scripture is also quite clear that unrepentant adulterers will NOT be in heaven. That being the case, it is clear that God cannot be used to "justify" her choice to be disobedient, any more than Eve could justify her choice.

Love IS beautiful, and that is what the Romans passage is talking about. But disobedience to God is NOT love, it is sin. Since your wife wants to attempt to use Scripture, I can only assume that she wants to also think of herself as a Christian. Suffice it to say, if she does think that way and you are members of your church, then it is time to begin the Matthew 18:15-20 intervention (that is, assuming your Pastor believes in biblical church discipline).

Things are NOT going to "cool down," sad to say. There is no "good time" to begin the process, but since she refuses you and your attempts to get her to repent and stop the affair, then you must focus on the fact that her eternal position with or without God is what is at stake.

It is time for action, not procrastination.

It will be hard on you emotionally, but it must be done if YOU love your wife as Romans 13:10 means. That is the very same love for sinners that led Jesus to surrender to the Father's will and to endure the pain, suffering, and death that was the ultimate expression of His love for the Father and for us sinners.

God bless.

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