who is Angela?

What if there's nothing wrong with you, FL?

What if what you're experiencing right now is another chance to grieve deeply and well...a whole lot of losses?

To really get through all the stages, instead of bouncing back and forth (which is natural, btw), without reaching the fulfillment part of mourning?

Would that be exciting to you?

What if part of that process is assertion...stating what is and is not acceptable to you (one way to work through to acceptance) to others? May seem combative...you may have done this underhandedly before...passive-aggressively. Assertion may have been your goal all along...getting to it fully won't be a picnic.

Change involves pain, fear and awareness. You know this drill. I know you do.

How about noticing what gets to you in what is being said, even to others...find out where it hurts, what's the belief causing that hurt...trace it through.

You want your mother to stop saying what she does...she doesn't forget, FL. She's working through her process, too. Not about you.

We don't enforce a boundary once...it's a continual boundary (if it's a real boundary and not a wishful one)...takes repeated, pre-determined, progressive boundary enforcements.

What are yours in regards to discussion of a man who isn't present, right now? And what if you listened and repeated what she said...so she can hear what she's saying...and know all along that's her take, her thoughts, her stuff?

You define your own. You know that. You gotta practice it.

I love how you tie together all your threads...where MEDC hit inside you, and ML, and then to your mother...working it through; sharing aloud.

We are blessed by you, FL. You can see that, if you choose to believe and understand that. Not for what you earn, do for others, or hold together for them...for you being who you really are, right now, sharing your stuff.

When we grieve our stuff, I believe we help the rest of the world grieve well. We grieve what we lose and what we don't receive (or haven't yet)...grieving is a daily thing, so we gotta become expert, through practice. It fills out another part of our relationship with God, I believe...for I know he grieves, too. When you love, you grieve.

Big and small losses...even our own self-respect, integrity, past choices, new choices...we do not grieve because consequences come...they come whether we do or not...we even grieving having unrealistic expectations (unaware they are, of course)...it's understanding the consequences where grief dwells.

We're gonna hurt a lot in this life, off and on. Same for joy, happiness, contentment. The difference, I believe, is how well we accept determines how much of those three...and grieving is how we get there.

LA

Hey FLT2H,

I'm sorry that you're feeling down... I'm praying for 'ya!

Semper Fi,

RIF

Beautiful post LA.

FH - good idea to walk the dog! Some sun on your face and exercise will do you well. Please keep us posted.

LA, you are awesome....that was a beautiful post, and in my experience, so true. You're a beautiful person, ya know.
And FL, she is right, we are very blessed by you here....
And LA touched on what I was telling you not so long ago...that "rite of passage", and how I think you're on the cusp of a breakthrough. Don't stop now!
Do definitely get the thyroid checked, and the pre-menopausal thing is very likely, I've been there! Maybe they can test for that, though at this point, probably nothing will show up.

Love ya,
NOW

I was just remembering my poor MIL going thru menopause. That woman was ALWAYS crying over something. She was so emotional. She's much better now thanks to medication and time.

Definitely get that and the thyroid ruled out as a cause. Why suffer more than you have to?

hi,

so i made it to work finally, well been here a good 1 1/2 hrs already. i did first walk to the post box with Sophie.

guys i've been on the edge of a breakthru for too long!!!

i don't think i am on the edge, i think i'm stuck in the mud. i'm bouncing all around; not getting to any end. i don't want to stop, i want to cross over.

my mom may be needing to get thru her own process but at this point, considering how much she has never protected me or put me first, don't ya think she ought to just leave me out of it?

yes, i could confront her and say, sorry mom, i just don't want to ever have contact with you again, you being in my life is not good for me.

but i can't live with that.

so i've just outlined the two extremes.

so you will say find a middle ground.

and that is where i have to learn to tell her to stop whenever she starts to go down a wrong path.

and that can be pretty straight forward when it comes to our past. but even present day stuff. i just don't like, respect or in anyway feel capable of tolorating any part of her anymore. she ALWAYS has some issue.

but she is my mom, and the commandment says to love your parents.

i think i'm talking in circles, right?

what scares me more than anything is that i'm just like her!!! i seem to always have issues now to, right?

Hi FL

How many important parts of your life, without any pollyanna outlook, are actually meeting with your personal satisfaction right now ?

How many parts of your life are deeply satisfying because they run fast , and drive you beyond you very high capabilities, yet engage deeply and satisfy you profoundly ?

Because I see you as a ball of dissatisfaction trying to convince herself she should be satisfied with situations that actually grate you like sand in vaseline.

I think you show signature behaviours that demonstrate you would never be happier than if you're careening along at higher-than-full speed, tumbling and landing on your feet many times before the end of the ride, shouting loud for joy " again ! Faster !".

Be that your marriage, your R with your wider family, your work, your own internal development, your education, you name it.

And I don't see you reporting much in your life that stretches you, and that makes you push hard in JOY not compulsion.

ind something that makes you giddy with its deep satisfaction and that will serve as a pressure-valve for you as you take those others around you which are more conservative, slower, or who are braked by other issues.

Or I am completely wrong. Usually am <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

All blessings

i forgot in my last post to say.

RIF - thanks for the prayers.

Don't go to greece until you have talked to me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.
I just spent 12 days there at the end of May, to attend my oldest's son's wedding on the Island of Patmos. Absolutely, breathtakingly, gorgeous!

Forget Athens, unless you like say, Chicago or New York.

The islands in Greece are astonishingly beautiful.
You and your daughter would have the time of your life! btw bring your visa card <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

I can't say anything to your sitch as LA, has said it all. Yesterday was my down in the dumps day. Part of the whole process of grief, includes these days wher we can't seem to shake it. It's OK, I know, I still have mine after 5+ years. but that's me. Others tend to be aggressive and fighters, but we all go thru life with whatever tools we were built with.

Good luck,
All Blessings,
Jerry

* cough * holidayed eight times in Greece, almost everywhere but Patmos <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> * cough*

We could probably write a book, Jerry <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

[/threadjack]

Hi Bob,

over looking the fact that i don't know what you mean by pollyanna outlook...


my relationship with my daughter. it exceeds every desire i could possible have. (and it is also very close to coming to an end, as far as having her around every day, i have no doubts that we will still remain close. it will be different but it is ok, she has grown up into a wonderful person, i couldn't be more proud of her and i couldn't be more excited for her as she goes into the world. still i will miss her more than words can say.)


"because they run fast and drive you" that used to describe work, not anymore.

other areas that used to deeply satisfy me even though it was not because they ran fast was girl scouts and, this one might sound odd, but making cakes for the kids, not just mine, but the nieces and nephews even more. also being more connected to church, again working with the kids.



yeah, you pegged that right but you missed the part that not only am i trying to convince myself, i'm mad that i'm not being successful at convincing myself. and i'm confused as to if i should be convinced or not.


it is possible (i'm being sarcastic cuz i know it is 100% true) that i am the type that likes to play hard, go fast and shout very loudly. (in fact DD and i were just talking this morning about getting back to a near by ammusement park one more time before it closes. thanks for reminding me to look up the times!)

i am not the type that can just sit around and relax. i need to be doing something.

and i wonder if that is a bad thing. if my normal tendency, to put my all into what i do, just resulted in neglecting my marriage. of course i'm now trying to put my all into the marriage and, well, you know how well that is going...

and you are right, i'm being driven more by complusion not joy. why is that?



i would love for that one thing to be changing careers into being a teacher, i would be an awesome teacher!! but financially, it does not work right now.

Hi Jerry,

so far we have picked up just one cruise book, i have to get serious about booking before time gets too short. we want to go in june 2008. we are thinking 7 day cruise. if memory serves me, the one we were looking the most at goes to spain, italy and greece.

have you seen Traveling Pants? one of the girls went to Greece, it was beautiful. (i hope it was shot on location and not actually in a hollywood studio!!

i guess i'm feeling better right now. writing helped. i think i just plain tired myself out too.

i read some of your posts yesterday. i thought about saying something, but i didn't know what to say. i am sorry you are still hurting. i (maybe incorrectly) think i can't be of help given i was the enemy, i was the FWS.

this stuff just all s#cks!!

Athens is the seat of modern government, the location of the works of Homer and Seneca, and a location of an early church created by Paul's preaching. Its worth putting up with the congestion and smog for a couple days IMO <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I am a BS. However, I do not think of the WSes on here as the enemy. YOU did not sleep with my H. You are not the OW in my situation, therefore how could you be my enemy? We all make mistakes and we are ALL here for the same reasons no matter which side of the line we are on.

You can help the other WSes on here and maybe provide some insight to the BS on why people cheat. We are here to gain wisdom and share wisdom with eachother. If you can give me some insight as to why my H cheated than you have helped me to possibly prevent it in the future.

I am not the cheater so therefore I can't fully understand why my H decided it was okay to stray. I don't know the emotions involved or what he said to himself that made it okay for him to tear us apart.

You are here to provide that information and to provide support of other WSes trying to find their way. We are all valuable here. God put you here to strengthen you and to make some good come out of this tragedy. Heal yourself and then help others to heal. It's what redemption is all about.

I will pray for you and I hope that you feel better soon.

GC,

i do hear you and i appreciate what you are saying. you are very kind. years back i do think my words helped more. maybe I"M just not in a good place right now.

i do look out for especially any new FWS and try to help there. i do very much want to be helpful and give back as i have been given very much from this board.

the over all mood of this board is not what it used to be. and at this point, any straying off of my own threads that i try to do seems to just result in making that worse. i refuse to be a part of that anymore. i don't want this board to go downhill. i want it to be here going strong for those that still need it. i'm not sure where i would be today if not for this board.

i really don't want to talk about this. it just is what it is right now. but i will keep your words in mind and try to give those insights and be more helpful again.

We need to colaberate <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
Jerry

If this board is not what it used to be, then we need to make it so again. It is too important to let it go.

GC, i agree!!! and that is why i am keeping my mouth shut for right now. I'm obviously not capable right now of not making it worse. but don't worry, i'm not going anywhere and i'll work on re-learning to play nice with everyone.

Jerry, Bob, you two hack out the details <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> and i'll get myself to a travel agent. the thing is, it HAS to be a cruise. so just keep that in mind while you work out the details. thanks <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

FL, call me tomorrow if you have the time. I like the way you are working through this instead of distracting yourself by getting angry at everyone else. Keep the forward progress going. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />