Hopefully I'll get some opinions on my situation because when I think about it I feel it's wrong, but when I talk to FWH about it he says it's all in my head and I end up feeling crazy.

Ten years ago H had a A after being out of town on business, hanging out in the hotel bar drinking with a single coworker and the coworker picked up the waitress and her friend to show them around town. Long story short he ended up leaving me for 4 months for this OW, then came back. I truly believe he feels it was the biggest mistake of his life and since then he's been an amazing husband, very patient with my insecurities, fears, etc. and has done a great job at rebuilding my trust. Now the past several months we've started having problems due to the following things he's doing.:

1) Hanging out with young, single friends. We're 36 and married. His friends that he's been hanging out with for months now are 22-24, single and drink excessively and smoke pot. BUT, he said they like the same music, movies, hobbies, etc as him and he would still hang out with them if they were older and the fact that they are alcoholics and potheads doesn't make him one. He goes out for "guy time" every Fri night after the kids and I go to bed (which I've always been fine with). He says they just sit at this guy's apt and play video games but at least once they've been to a bar. FWH (who use to only drink occassionally) now drinks so excessively with these guys that he can't come home until 5am because he's not sober enough to drive. A lot of times the girlfriends of a couple of the guys hang out with them (don't know if they bring friends). He has promised to cut back on his drinking and get home earlier (last week it was 3am). I want him to have his own interests and own friends and I'm ok with "guy time", but I feel it's highly inappropriate for a 36yo married man to hang out getting drunk with single guys. But his married friends don't do anything at night so if he didn't hang out with these guys he would have nothing to do.

2) Secret email account: Several months ago he sent me a joke through an email account I didn't know about. He said he just uses that account for fantasy football but when I went to snoop the next day the account had been closed. Wouldn't that make you suspicious? He STILL maintains it was only for football, he's telling me the truth and I need to trust him.

3) Secret relationships: Years ago when he worked in sales he became friends with his assistant (female, married with kids) and I knew since then he's occassionally kept in touch with her and gone out to lunch every now and then to catch up. I never felt uneasy about this relationship. Months ago I would have to get up around midnight to feed the baby and would hear him on the computer obviously "chatting" with someone and without fail every time I'd walk in the room he'd switch the screen so it would look like he was just surfing the web. Since I'm suppose to have faith and trust him I didn't say anything but recently got suspicious so I checked his phone and computer. This girl sent him a text at 11:45pm on a Friday night trying to get him to go to a party with her. That right there told me they were closer than just occassionally seeing each other for lunch. On his computer I found that he installed MySpace IM with the sole intention of using it to chat with her (but msg history was off so I don't know what was said). Also found TONS of emails (mostly from her to him) that seemed innocent enough (except for the one where she said "as innocent as IMing was it made me feel really guilty"). But just the sheer volume of them disturbed me. Also found out she is not happy in her marriage and would vent to him. When I confronted H about this he volunteered that it was her he was chatting to but hadn't in quite a while (which I knew for a fact was a lie and he had just lied to my face about it). He said he lied because even though he's just friends with this girl and there's nothing going on he knew if I knew about it I would "freak out". I honestly don't think they are having an A, but I really get the feeling that she's interested in him, and I just think it's inappropriate for a married man to be chatting with ANY woman on a regular basis (especially about intimate stuff like her marriage). And especially if he has to lie to his wife about it. He just keeps trying to drill it in my head that he truly loves me and will never "go down that road again".

Until recently I've trusted him completely (even though it's really hard due to the A) but all of these things have put distrust in my head. He maintains that he's not doing ANYTHING wrong and I need to be able to trust him. I just feel the life he's living right now is detrimental to our marriage. Am I just overreacting about these things?

I'd love other's opinions on this.

You're not crazy. Trust your instincts and the evidence. There will be more experienced responders here soon, please listen to them. I just wanted to let you know that someone cared enough to respond. Hang in there.

He says he's not doing anything wrong, but he admitted to lying to you about the girl?

IMO, if he isn't wayward already, he's well on the way to becoming so. Once he has found himself in situations where he feels he has to lie to you, then he's already on that slippery slope.

If he can't put his foot down and stop himself, then you may have to take up the challenge. Request NC with that girl, and NC with those pop-smoking friends. When he protests, respond that the very fact that he had to lie about his activities should be enough indication to both of you that they're not healthy for your M.

Trust your instincts absolutely!

Sounds to me like the "fog" is setting in (or already set) on H ... if you could possibly get him to read some of the material here on the anatomy of an A I'm sure he'd recognize a lot of those behaviours in himself ... I only wish I had recognized in myself before it was too late.

I'd agree ... if he's not already in A he's definitely running a risk of getting there sooner than later.

You are not crazy. As MiM said- if he isnt wayward now, he is going to be soon.

Install a keylogger on his computer. Gather as much information as you can.

What is disturbing to me is he had a A before. He knows how destructive they are, how they are just a fantasy. His actions tell me that he never really recovered from the wayward mindset in the first place

Agree with JustKim. However, I believe your H is wayward now. He may not be in the throes of a full boat affair yet, but he is headed that way fast.

put a keylogger on his computer and see what he is doing.

Secondly, he shouldn't be going out with the boys getting drunk. That is kids stuff, and certainly not healthy for your marriage.

"But his married friends don't do anything at night so if he didn't hang out with these guys he would have nothing to do."

His married friends are home with their families, which is where HE should be. A husband and father has no business getting drunk and spending the night away from home.

I think there MAY be an affair. Next time he goes "out with the boys", check to see if his car is parked there all night.

Thanks for the responses! I can't put a keylogger on his computer because he has spyware and spydoctor on it (for viruses?) and I can't go follow him around when he goes out for the night because we have four kids at home and nobody that can come watch them.

All came to a head yesterday when he got REALLY mad at me for not trusting him. He just truly doesn't see what he's doing is wrong. He got so mad he said he gave up, didn't want to be in a M where his wife constantly questions what he does and doesn't trust him, threatened to go get a lawyer, divorce me a take the kids (like THAT would ever happen). He finally settled down, apologized and said we HAVE to fix this. Offered to go to MC, take a lie detector test, whatever it takes. Said he just wouldn't go out any more and he will break the friendship with his female friend because she's not nearly important to him as our M. He was REALLY pushing the lie detector, so I guess I should just trust him to be telling the truth. I do think he'll break the friendship with the girl and I think he'll cut back on his drinking and try to get home at a reasonable hour but can't see him totally giving up at least one night of "guy time".
So we'll go to MC (I'm VERY curious to see what a counselor has to say about his actions) and he'll try to be home more. I WILL continue to search his computer and phone at least just until I become confident that there IS nothing else more.

I think its great he's going to work on the marriage, I think he's bluffing with the lie detector. I would call his bluff.

Just my 2 cents.

You need to find someone to babysit. Even if you are not going to spy on him, the two of you need to spend time each week doing fun things together WITHOUT the kids.

I think it is wonderful for men to have friends and spend time with other men - that does NOT include pretending like they are single and staying out all night drunk.

I'll be very surprised if he ends contact with his lady "friend".

Counseling is a good idea. Be sure you follow through on that one.

Spyware will not pick up most keyloggers. [a keylogger is not spyware]It doesn't pick up eblaster. You can download either eblaster [if you need the reports emailed to you] or spectorpro if you have daily access to the target computer. Download here: www.spectorpro.com. After you install it, run the anti-virus to make sure it doesn't pick it up. If it does, then all you have to do is program it to ignore your keylogger.




But, that "guy" time will not help him restore your trust for him. He is not a teenage boy, but a MAN. He is not supposed to have "guy" time anymore. It is damaging your marriage. So, I would suggest NO "guy" time unless you are with him. Or he can invite the "guys" over to your house and have dinner with your family. I suspect, though, he plans on using his night out alone to see his OW.

Just tell him that his "night out" with the "guys" makes you extremely anxious and does nothing to restore trust. if he goes, you should go with him. Ask him to stop. Instead, y'all need to find leisure activities that you can do TOGETHER.

He is very likely having an affair, h2h.

If the girlfriends of the guys show up at the house during the time the boys are playing videos and drinking, that means this, by default,

IS NOT "GUY" TIME.

GIRLS ARE THERE - THAT IS NOT GUY TIME. THAT IS GUY AND GIRL TIME.

Point that out to him.

He is lying to you. I suspect he is drawn to go there because there are young single people there, and he wants the young single life.

This is dangerous.




So, have a plan! Hire a babysitter, but DO NOT TELL HIM YOU HAVE. Wait until the last minute. Have the babysitter on stand-by - this will cost you, but do it anyway. You might have to do it several weekends, but it will be worth it. When he asks to go for his guy-time, tell him, "Great! I've hired a babysitter, and I'm going along. Since the other girls are there, I'd like to meet and hang out with all of your friends, too!".

Make sure he does not get to his phone before you leave, if you end up going with him.

If he lets you go, you will know exactly who the other woman is when you walk in the door with him (if there is another woman).

If he won't let you go, and does talk you out of going, then let him go, call the babysitter anyway, and check it out. Show up anyway, or spy on him.

I would - because the only way to bust up the affair is to expose it. If he was trying to gaslight me, I would do everything I could to make the lie come right out in public.

Sure, he will be mad. Who cares? Your marriage can survive his being angry, but it cannot survive him having another woman.

I agree, Your H is into some dangerous things here.

you DO need to find out what H is up to, do not tell H of your spy plans.

I do not believe H is former anymore, I blieve H is a WH.
get going on this

Here's the deal....if he is pushing for the lie detector. Don't assume he is being honest. Everything else tells you he isn't. Then the lie detector comment is meant to throw you off course.

Suggestion:

1. Go research and find out what it costs to get one and where. This is informational in case he tests if you really mean it. You should. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

2. Then tell him you have rethought his suggestion and now agree. The lie detector test is a good one.

3. Tell him you have a list of places where this is conducted and can schedule an appointment.

Then step back see his reaction. It will be one of 2 ways:

A. He will comply with no agrument.....
B. He will squirm and you will realize he was bluffing.

Either way, you stand your ground. He claims it costs too much....you will know from your research whether this is true or not. If it is, while doing your research go secure the finances to pay for it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Then watch him squirm so more....

You can buy time but keep him on the hook by saying something like....well I can get the $$ or the appointment but it w/b in a few....day/weeks,etc.....whatever is conducive to your schedule.

This is like reverse babbling.....R U bluffing? Yea.... but of course he doesn't have to know. why? Because if push came to shove... you would want him to take it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

The point is not to let him babble or bluff you. He will learn he can no longer control you into submission but bluffing.

You are NOT afraid to meet his bluff head on with a skillful reverse babble twist. In otherwords....meet it and be safe.

take care,
L.

Schoolbus and Orchid have some great ideas here. Call his bluff and find out the truth; I have a feeling it won't be pretty.

great suggestion Orchid.