I don't know if the call was staged, it seemed pretty odd, but I didn't react to it at all.

As for her convincing me to let her out of the marriage early, the only way I know to end the marriage earlier then the 1 year time frame, is due to adultery. You can shorten the 1 year wait time to 6 months with a signed seperation agreemet, which we didn't do.

I do have a great email from her from 4 months ago about how she wanted to have a great life with me and was excited about our future. I will forward this to her, and possibly her parents to show that our marriage wasn't over, until the OM came into the picture.

I will see how things go between now and the 14th of November for her surgery. Her parents might be flying into town to be with her during her surgery. I am going to try and do a modified PLAN A/B, I won't contact her and if she contacts me I will PLAN A. Until then I will just be me and work on myself.

As for the money, I have thought about this a lot. If the subject comes up, I will tell her that, I am not morally required to pay off the credit cards while she is someone elses girlfriend, if she wants to commit to working on the marriage we will start talking about our marital assets.

What do you think?

Ryan

P.S. I have an appointment with Jennifer tomorrow night, I will let you all know what she thinks and how it goes.

I have changed the title and my name since everyone seemed to think that this thread was going to be found by the OM.

I really do appreciate everyone's input, and help. I want to keep hope alive, and think that my love for my wife is going to be enough to build a new marriage. Please keep the advice coming.

I probably won't have a lot to say in the next couple of days, unless my wife calls me. Maybe I will get some good news, after the FBI office gets my letters?

Ryan.

Iwontquit:

I've read through all of your messages on this thread. I have a few suggestions:

1. Leave her alone. The key word in this sentence is "ALONE." Do not contact her any more. Don't try to be nice. Just stay away from her. Do not e-mail. Do not telephone. Don't sell her stuff. Don't help her move stuff out of your storage space. Just don't do anything that involves her AT ALL.

2. Pay attention to yourself. Do you have any hobbies or interests? Go for a bike ride. Watch television. Call some friends and go out or go to a movie. Take some AD's if you have to. Take a valium. Take a vicodin if you're in pain. But for goodness sakes, do NOT continue to use your wife as your drug of choice.

3. Stop obsessing about your marriage. Right now, it's over. If it comes back, it's only going to come back because SHE makes up her mind to come back. You CANNOT positively influence the outcome right now with anything you do or say to her. YOU CANNOT meet her emotional needs by staying in contact with her because right now, her "emotional need" is to be free of you. Do you understand this? Do you believe this? The sooner you do, the sooner you will have some peace in all of this.

4. I can't remember who said "man up." That's not a very descriptive phrase, but what it means is take control of those things you can take control of, and forget the rest, because the things you can't conrol...well, they are out of your control. And one of those things which is out of control is your wife.

Can you do all of this? Can you get your head clear? Can you make up your mind to live a productive and happy life without her? Of course you can. Right now though you just haven't because you think you can "win" her back. You think that by adopting someone else's "Plan A" or "Plan B" you're going to influence her to come back to you.

The problem is that whatever label you put on it, the "plan" has to be YOUR plan, and only your plan. It can't be someone else's, because no one here really knows you, knows your history, knows what motivates you and what drives you to do the things you do. So, you have to find what works for YOU.

And right now, what works for you is not your wife. She is like an addiction, a drug with a very bad side-effect, and one you need to stop using.

Don't count on her family for support either. They are HER family. They will protect her, nurture her, and regardless of whether they agree with her choice of companion/partner/spouse, they will still unconditionally support her. Contacting them isn't going to help you, not one bit.

Who were you when you and your wife first began your relationship? From what I can tell, you were a strong guy, with a strong personality, self-assured, confident, relatively happy, and someone others liked to be around.

Keep that guy in your mind's eye, because that's who you are. You are not weak, cloying guy. You are not the guy who writes to her parents about MB, who tells your wife that a lot of people you've never met on a message board on the internet have "the plan" for your life. Think about that. If your wife said that to you (that she'd been reading about marriage and relationships on the internet, and wow, has she learned a lot) wouldn't it sound a bit strange, a bit weird?

No matter what's happened over the years, she still remembers the strong, self-confident guy. The one who asked her to get married and who didn't refer to a "plan" that he'd read about on the internet when he asked her to share his life. So why not just be that guy? If she's ever going to clear her head out, and make a decision to change her life and recommit to a life with you, do you think your chances are better if she respects you or if she views you as weak, vulnerable and unsure? You know the answer to that one.

While all of us here wish you well and hope that you find happiness in your life, for the moment you must realize that your wife is gone. She's moved out and on, and she is trying not to hurt you any more than she has to, so that's why she takes your calls, returns your e-mails, but then says, as though it's an after-thought, "don't call or write". She's weak and simply can't say what she should directly if she were really being honest. But it is very clear what she's saying to you. These are not mixed messages. She is telling you that it's over...at least all but the shouting (and the divorce lawyer's fees and property division).

Sure, she enjoys being pursued. That's why she'll subtly send you what seem like mixed messages. It's why she'll take your calls. Why she responds to e-mails. Who doesn't like being pursued? It's very flattering. It feeds one's ego. But pursuing her right now is the worst thing you can be doing. Not just for her, but for you.

I know this advice goes against the grain of what you'll read here, and in a sense, it's very politically incorrect for MB. But after reading through this entire thread, there's no doubt in my mind that it's the right approach.

Take a deep breath. Pay attention to your own health. Eat right. Get plenty of sleep. Find things to do and people to do them with so you can have some fun for yourself.

In other words, let her pursue you. If she wants to she will. If she doesn't, then you can mourn the past, but you'll be fully prepared to move on with your life, find someone who will love you the way you deserve to be loved, with whom you can have a family and a future.

I hope this isn't too harsh, but I feel like someone needs to take a 2x4 and give you a few good whacks right now. I'm only sorry that I felt the urge to be the one to do it.

One last thought from me. This was from your very first post in this thread:



Listen to your therapist. That's why you pay her the big bucks.

Iwontquit,

If you want to follow the MB principles that have worked for SO MANY, I strongly advise that you disregard rejected111's posts.

He/she clearly doesn't understand or know the principles.

rejected, Dr. Harley is a credentialed PSYCHOLOGIST who specializes in infidelity. He is immensely more qualified than a "therapist" who knows nothing about adultery. Most therapists, and especially marriage counselors, cause more harm than GOOD because they are not educated in the dynamics of adultery, are not pro-marriage and simply facilitate amicable DIVORCES. The success rate of marriage counselors in the US is around 16%, which is dismal. The rate of DIVORCE amongst marriage counselors is higher than the gen pop.

Ryan most definitely SHOULD NOT heed his therapist's advise to "stop being so nice" to his wife. That is bum advice that will not serve his purpose, which is to ATTRACT his wife back into the marriage. He should be in PLAN A.

rejected is giving his OWN personal opinion, which is in direct contradiction to Dr. Harley's. You would be wise to ignore his posts, Ryan. Dr. Harley has saved thousands of marriages and is a credentialed, successful psychologist. I doubt some guy on the internet named "rejected" with 11 posts under his belt has the same qualifications or track record.

rejected, in case you hadn't noticed, the sign on the door says MARRIAGE BUILDERS. We are to help folks learn and implement MARRIAGE BUILDERS principles, not our own personal philsophies. I don't know about you, but I am not qualified to give marital advice. I am only qualifed to sell soft drinks.

Melody:

This isn't about you, or me, or Dr. Harley. It's about Ryan. Disagree with what I'm saying all you want. But this isn't about who has the longer list of credentials. Ad hominem attacks aren't really appropriate.

I realize you've got 25,000+ posts on MB to my paltry 11. But as you say, you're not qualified to give marital advice, and neither am I. I'm not a psychologist (which by the way is a degreed credential, not a medical specialty), but apparently neither are you.

My suggestions to Ryan weren't that he give up on his marriage, just that he BACK OFF and focus on himself. Or at least if he can't do that, to make it appear that he's focusing on himself from his wife's point of view.

Oh wait...that sounds like....(drumroll)

PLAN B.

No, this is about Ryan coming here to get MARRIAGE BUILDERS ADVICE, rejected. I think you must have missed the sign on the door. See, people come here to get MARRIAGE BUILDERS ADVICE, not Melodylane advice or "rejected111" advice. That is why I give MARRIAGE BUILDERS ADVICE here, I don't contradict it. YOU DO.

See, I help people learn MARRIAGE BUILDERS principles because I am not qualified professional myself. I only share Dr. Harley's principles. DR HARLEY IS the professional, which I why I lead them to HIS principles. Folks are not here for my personal philosophy.

If you are here to contradict DR HARLEY, then you should be prepared to defend your credentials to do so. And probably should go start your OWN website and promote your OWN "opinions" if that is the case.


ummmmmmm no, it's not. Can I suggest that you attempt to LEARN Marriage Builders principles before you commence to hand out advice here? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Excuse me while I saunter over to the general dentistry board to give advice to patients. [I have a right to my "opinion" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />] After all, I know a thing or two about going to the dentist so I should be qualifed, right?!

I have followed your threads now from the beginning and up to now declined to comment. However I do feel you are getting to a place where you really need to stick to the 'PLAN" ... whatever that ends up being.

I was a WW like your wife and so much of what Mel and mr W and others here have told you is so true. You can't reason, talk, lecture, beg, plead, with your WW. concessions will be considered weakness no matter the intent right now. Nothing you do will be 'right' to her. Everything is your fault... and always was in her mind right now. She may even 'hate' you a bit. Its all what we call the fog.

So what do you do?

well I feel you really NEED to contact one of the Harleys and work with them on a plan and stick to it for the period they reccommend. And remember the plan may be something not even thought about so far

Why?

First they are good at it. No other system seems to get as many positive results anywhere in the world. Other methods work of course but less often from all the results that are published & that we can see.

Second you can afford to get the best advice, so why not?

Third, at the very least you will know YOU did all you could and that will be so important one day.

Now just some things ... Never excuse your WW for choosing the affair. She did. Your actions did not make her choose that. Never think that your actions MADE her do anything.
Simple truth ... SHE CHOOSE

If you feel depressed dont allow it to fester, go get help. You need to actively help yourself even though it may seem too much of an effort.

Don't be too accommodating. Be kind, gentle, polite, but don't get walked over. If in doubt talk to the Harleys or with the experienced people here. Remember a WW is all about 'ME, myself and I', you don't matter.

DON'T expect instant results and that you can 'fix' things, won't happen. Affairs, even the less viral ones, take some months even years to work through to recovery, if that is possible. Its about the long haul and some very painful months.

You have the right to fight for the M or to end it. Though we will try to encourage you to fight for it, really its your choice and you have the moral and ethical right no matter what you choose.

So tough talk time ... are you going slip into wallow & wait mode or contact the Harleys and work up a plan?
Become proactive, don't allow things to just happen to you, go out and get that plan!!

Oh and yes MB does work, it worked for me and on me lol I have my wonderful H and family and if he wasn't as tough as he was I probably wouldn't have it. Thats a pretty amazing gift to get.

Thank You!

I have an appointment with Jennifer tonight at 8pm. I am looking forward to talking with her. I am now begining to see/feel a little stronger about my situation. Before I thought I could do something that would make everything better, I am starting to realize that I can only do what I can do.... I know it sounds strange, and a little against the MB principles, but I will do everything I can and stop worrying about what I can't. If she doesn't want to see/hear/talk to me right now, fine. If she doesn't want me there for her surgery, I am sorry I would love to be there for comfort and support, but fine. I will start moving forward with or without her, but I will do my best to be the person I know I can be.

Ryan.

No contact from her for the last 2 days, but she knows I sold the car, so I get this text today:

"Did the buyers come and get the car yesterday? No problems?"

I think she is getting scared that she isn't going to get the money. I think I am just not going to reply until I talk to Jennifer tonight and see how I should be acting toward my very WW.

Ryan.

I had a nice talk with Jennifer tonight and she encouraged me to continue to PLAN A, even if my wife doesn't want me to call or email her. Jennifer sugggested that I start writing letters that explain the things that I have learned and how I would change what I did to build a new life and a new marriage with my wife. I have drafted the first 2 letters, and am going to go over them for a couple days. I am somewhat relieved that Jennifer didn't tell me to start a PLAN B, but at the same time I am a little unsure how my wife will react to the letters.

Ryan.

Show up for the surgery but respect her request not to see her. Let family know you are there for support because you care. Yea....they may not believe you but you should.

RE: Unless she has had this surgery lots of times, most don't know they need the support until they are there. So for her to tell you NOT to come when you want to and can is being a bit naive.

L.

Orchid,

My wife has had surgery to remove tumors 5 times. She is very casual about it, but I still want to be there for her. I don't know what will happen between now and then, but I am going to follow Jennifer Harley's advice and try to send my wife some small letters to explain to her that I understand what happened. I didn't know how to meet her needs, but that I can see why and that I am ready to build a new life with her. I am going to try to continue, to give her room, by not calling her or emailing her, but I am anxious to send her a letter to see if I get any response.

Time will tell,
Ryan.

Well today I get an email from the WW. She seems happy that I have sold the car, and anxiously waiting for the money.

"Hey there,

How did you want to work out the Car money? I guess you could just transfer the money to my account and I'll put it on Citibank- I'll send you a copy of the payment confirmation if you want. I don't know if there is a fee for transferring money between Bank of America accounts or not. Just let me know!

How's my Jindo?

WW"

I will probably just end up, sending payment directly to the card company. It is amazing how her emails seem friendlier when there is money involved.

Ryan.

Time for an update, pardner. How're things going today?

LH

Well I had a good talk with Jennifer Harley last night and she suggested I continue PLAN A. Even if my wife didn't want me to call her, email her, etc. That I should maybe write her some letters to show her I have made an effort to understand that I wasn't meeting her emotional needs.

I wrote 2 letter last night and I was nervous about sending them to my wife.

Well, today after work I was running around town cancelling our joint automatic debit accounts, i.e. Mini storage, Gym membership, etc. When I went into the gym to change the account my wife was there working out. She was on the otherside of the gym, I was a little unsure how I should act so I changed the account and left. I then got to thinking that this was my wife, I can't be scared of her, so I drove back and went over to start my workout. When I got close she was very friendly and talkative, she told me that I look great. We made small talk for a little while, I told her that she would need to put the gym membership on her card, since I was closing our joint account. She was surprised that I hadn't done it already. She then told me that she went to an Attorney today, and that she was scared. I know that the gym isn't really the place to talk about this, but we went over to the corner and I asked her, what she was scared about.
She told me that nothing is going to happen very fast, since our state has a mandatory seperation period. She also told me that she was sad. I reminded her that this is not what I want and that I have made a commitment to be there for her and never let her down. I then told her that I love her, and care for her very much. I was scared for her and I wanted to be there for her on the day of her surgery. She looked a little upset, but she didn't say anything else.
During our talks she told me she hadn't talked to the OM since the incident with the FBI security officer. I don't know if i should believe her, she did such a good job of decieving me before that I would have to see some proof before I could trust her. I hope that it is over, and that she is going through withdrawl, but her actions don't match her words.
I am going to continue to PLAN A, like Jennifer suggested through letters, and see if she will open up to me a little more.

Ryan.

Okay, sounds like a plan. Keep us "in the loop" as you follow Jennifer Harley's advice, okay? We're still here for you, but I (speaking only for myself) generally maintain a low profile on threads where professional advice is being received.

Like the renowned philosopher, Dirty Harry, once said, "A man's got to know his limitations." <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />