Sounds like a plan, pardner. Good on you.

I keep re-reading her email, where she says that she didn't go see him. I must have read it 10 times, did I make a mistake?

I am second guessing my PLAN B, but I guess it is what I have to do. I am anxious to talk to Jennifer tonight. I really wish I could believe my wife that she didn't go up to see him, but I just don't have that level of trust with her right now. It hurts to know that she would drive up there to see him and lie to me again. Why do WS, even when caught continue to lie? Very confused.

Ryan.

I thought you might start second guessing yourself, Ryan. We all do. Now, your wife wrote you she "didn't know what to tell you."

But I know what she could have told you, Ryan. I know precisely what she could have done if she really wanted you to feel better.

She could have told you who that "friend" was she was going to drive with up there and suggested you call that friend, couldn't she? She could have told you exactly where she was and she could have offered to fax you a copy of a gas receipt, a restaurant check, or anything else she bought, couldn't she. She could have told you about the drive, what scenery she saw, what the traffic was like, where the traffic jams were, etc., etc. She could have told you almost anything that could have been checked...IF she had been interested in showing you she hadn't done anything wrong--but she didn't do a darn thing, did she?

She didn’t. I’m pretty sure she couldn’t, Ryan. I think the percentages are still with assuming she was lying. There is NO reason whatsoever to believe anything else. Do you honestly think an adulterous couple just “happens” to drive away from their spouses into the same area and it’s all just a big coincidence? The first thing that struck you was that she had gone to PA to meet him. You know your wife, Ryan. Pardner, trust your instincts where she is concerned and trust the supporting evidence.

But, let's assume you did jump the gun a little bit. Let’s say your adulterous wife is really innocent...this time. Let’s say both of them just “happened” to drive off into the same area and never met up.

So? SO WHAT? Ryan, Plan B was coming, no matter what you did. Your adulterous wife wasn’t responding to the Plan A by showing any real signs of recommitting, was she? Not really, and Plan B was most assuredly part of your future, wasn’t it?

Now, that having been said, you could have not reacted so impulsively when you were in the grip of strong emotions, couldn’t you? You could have come on line and laid out what you’d discovered--the phone call from OMW, the email, etc.--and you could have asked for comments that would have validated your instincts or given you food for thought on other things you could do. You could have showed us your (sanitized) Plan B letter and asked for input.

I think I’ve mentioned some ideas in this general area a couple of times, haven’t I? Work on it, Ryan. I don’t think you’re so impulsive in your day job, so bring a little of that over to your personal life also, okay? Enough said.

Well...what the heck? Where do you stand now? Where's the irreparable damage that's been done? You could have done this a little more decorously; you could have set things up a bit better, perhaps. But Ryan, you got the job done and it’s behind you now. Don’t sweat the small stuff, pardner.

Now, I sure hope I’m not putting myself out on a limb here and industriously sawing it off behind me. I remember you have an appointment with Jennifer tonight and I’m waiting to hear what she’s going to tell you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hang in there, Ryan. What’s done is done and today is the first day of the rest of your life. Live it the best way you can, okay?

LH

Oh! I forgot.

Ryan, adulterers lie because it's what they ARE! Everything they do and say is a lie. That fantasy world they built around themselves is a total lie but they keep it going as long as they possibly can. I can't recall who it was but there was a poster here on MB a couple years back who caught her husband and the OW in bed in a motel and he STILL told his betrayed wife it wasn't what she thought it was! Can you imagine?

Anyway, the rule of thumb is if an adulterous spouse's mouth is moving, it's a lie. Expect it, Ryan. Dissect everything she says and understand she will instinctively obfuscate every issue until such a time as she comes out of the fog.

All of you are right on target!! I just got off the phone with Jennifer and she has said almost verbatim the advice that has been given here. She said I was a little hasty to go to PLAN B, but that given the circumstances and my personality, it was probably a wise thing to do. She said that unlike me, she has had people who continue to PLAN A, while their wives/husbands run off to their lovers every weekend for SF. The thought of that made my stomach hurt. I am still struggling with taking my wife back, and being second choice.... She did think that a DARK PLAN B might not be exactly what I want since I didn't have much time to tell my wife that I wanted to start a new life with her. She suggested that I use distance, but use subtle hints to show her I love her and tell her I want a life with her. A good example was just sending her a card before her surgery. I was asking about sending her an email or text, but Jennifer suggested that I send a simple card, telling her I am thinking about her, and that I think about her everyday, and that I love and care for her and that I would love to start a new life with her. That is exactly how I feel.

Jennifer also layed out PLAN B a little diffferent then I havee heard it discussed here. There are 3 parts that she cautioned me, about.

1.) Will it hurt my love bank
2.) Will it hurt her love bank
3.) Will it protect me, from her reckless actions

If you put yourself in a position to meet any of those pieces you are not in PLAN B, but if you can do something without, hurting you, hurting her, and protecting yourself. She says it is usually OK. The idea with the card is a great example. If I can send her a card, and expect nothing in return, no harm done. The harm is when you are giving and giving and then your taker rears his head and expects something and you are hurt when you don't recieve it.

I will be quite dark, but I will send her a card before her surgery, because I think it is the "right" thing to do, no matter how she has treated me.

Ryan.

Cool. Getting a personalized plan of action is why I always suggest investing in counseling from the Harleys. They can get more out of you, and get a clearer picture of your situation, in a one-hour conversation than we can get in months of posts out here. I'll be mindful of what Jennifer has told you in everything I say from this point forward and if anything appears to contradict what she gave you, you know who to tell to back off, right? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Okay, clearly the key for Jennifer's program is for you to NOT ever...never ever...not now...not in a week...not in a month...never expect anything in return from anything you do for WW until such a time as she commits to recovery, transparency, and radical honesty. Also you have to keep your own welfare in mind. As Jennifer said, if it hurts you…if it hurts your love bank…don’t do it.

Those facets of Jennifer’s version of Plan B will actually make the Plan B you’re implementing very similar to anything we would suggest out here, assuming you are honest with yourself. Get used to factoring yourself and your wellbeing into questions of whether to do something or not. To date, it seems everything you’ve done has been for WW.

Jennifer’s version of the Plan B letter is the card you’re going to send, but it’s not that drastic a difference. In fact, for your situation, I like it. A card shows you’ve gone to some trouble to find it, personalize it, and send it. It’s more personal than the kindest email. Did Jennifer caution you to not expect to hear back from WW…either about the card or the surgery?

When it rains it pours! Well I just found out today, the contract that I have been working on for year and a half, didn't get renewed. I have been released from my job and will have to try and work with the company to find a new position. I should know by tomorrow or the next day if they can find me another position. If not then I will also be looking for a new job! WOW, we were supposed to be good until December, but the contract was under bid by another company. So what a change from my secure little life of just a couple months ago.

Ryan.

Well I just recieved this email from my parents, from my wife. I have been trying to do a PLAN B, since this weekend, when I suspected that she might have met up with OM. What do I do now? It doesn't sound like she wants to work on our marriage and new life together. It sounds like she is getting frustrated that she can't have what she wants??? Please let me know how I should handle this.

Ryan.


The Letter:

Glenn and Linda,
First I would like to apologize for all the pain I've caused you and Ryan. I know what I've done is wrong, and I made many other mistakes during my marriage, but I never meant to hurt anyone. While I will always feel bad about what this relationship has become, I would like to try to be amicable and I really don't want things to get to the point where Ryan and I hate each other. Right now I don't see how we are to work out anything if he won't talk to me. I'm sorry you're stuck in the middle, and I hate to work on personal business like this, but if you could talk to Ryan and get him to talk to me, I think everything would be easier. There are several things I would like to discuss with him, and it would be so much better if I could talk directly to him.
Thank you so much for your support. Ryan is very fortunate to have wonderful parents who are always there for him.

she is just trying every avenue to get you to break NC. don't do it....she needs to stew.

Your parents as intemediaries are NOT to merely forward her emails to you.

They should have responded:

WW,

If you want to speak with Ryan you have been given the simple route to do so in the letter dated Nov X, 2007.

In reveiew...end your affair completely, send OM a "no contact for life letter" and mean it, and commit to Ryan to a bona-fide attempt at marital recovery without any interference from third parties.

Until then, whether you mean it or not, "communication" represents nothing more than additional hurt to him and makes YOUR opportunity for marital recovery less likely.

It can be done. MOST marriages survive infidelity. Many actually thrive after a period of difficult recovery.

You have a unique opportunity denied to many adulterous women who find themselves cast aside after venturing outside the marital relationship for "love" and attention. Ryan remains willing to consider reconciling with you.

Let us know when you are willing to meet the barest of decent conditions precedent to such attempt at recovery. Until then, unfortunately, communications must continue to be made through us.

Your concerned and ever hopeful In-laws

G & L

p.s.- Nobody ever regrets doing the right thing

As far as the job thing.

I'm very sorry for you and concerned about your health.

I highly recommend seeing a doctor and getting prescribed some AD's to help you through this traumatic period in your life.

Things will get better....I promise.

Mr. Wondering

Mr. W,

I forwarded my parents that email that you drafted. I asked them to send it to my wife. My father said that it sounded like a solid email and would be sending it today.

Thank You,
Ryan.

Sorry to hear about the job, Ryan. That sucks, but you'll come out on top of that issue. You're too good not to.

As for the email, ditto what Mr.W said, and let your parents know about Jennifer's Plan B recommendations and ask them to help you out with enforcing them. Mr.W's suggested response to WW, particularly the part about you never seeing the email, seems right on target to me.

You know, I think I'd get your parents more actively involved in all this, and get them fully briefed on what you're trying to do with this Plan B. Let them know amicable friendship with your wife isn't what you're after.

Latest Email from the wife, it sure sounds like she is done.


I really don't want to hurt Ryan any more than I already have, so I'll keep emailing you. Again, I apologize for having to do business this way, but thank you for passing on my emails. Since I'm trying to straighten out my financial picture in order to get a new job, I have the following questions for him:

1. There was approximately $xxx in the Navy Fed account from our last payment on the 2007 Sky. Has that money been put towards the new Sky loan? If not, could you do that ASAP? Please let me know when that's been done.

2. I'm refinancing my car and that loan will no longer be associated with your name in about a week. Have you refinanced your truck? Please let me know when you expect to have the joint loan refinanced.

3. In regards to the Land Cruiser sale, when has the buyer agreed to pay the remaining money owed? I know he was supposed to drive down soon and take care of that business, but it has been almost a month since he said that , and the last I heard, he had only paid us the $xxxx good faith money. I really want to get that debt taken care of ASAP, and I'm concerned that he won't pay up. Please let me know when you expect to recieve the money for that sale and when I can expect the profit to be put towards the Citibank card as we agreed.

4. According to both Citibank and Bank of America, there is no limit to the amount that can be paid towards an account at one time. The remaining $xxx from the sale of the Cavalier was supposed to be put towards the Citibank card, and it has not been done yet. Could you please do that ASAP?

5. I can't remember if you were the primary cardholder on the Great Indoors card, or if that account was closed. Could you check? If you could either remove me as an authorized user or close the account, I'd appreciate it.

6. I need the key to the ministorage in order to get the last of my things out of there. Please mail me the key, since it's going to cost a ton of money to mail that stuff 10 blocks. I won't take anything that isn't mine, or things that we agreed you could have, but I'm trying to get ready for my parents' visit next week and I'd like to get some blankets, the things my grandma sent to me, and the clothes out of storage so my mom can look through them.

7. The home phone and cable accounts are still in my name. I'm planning to close the accounts, but I don't want you to be without a phone and I didn't want you to have to pay to get your cable reinstalled. Please let me know by tomorrow what day will be good to turn over the accounts. You'll have to go to the Comcast center to transfer the account, and I can have everything set up for you.

8. You mentioned that you had a bunch of mail for me, and you were going to forward it. Have you done that already?

9. Finally, please tell me what you're going to do about the Jindo. I know we agreed that I could take him, but I'm worried that this has changed. Are you really planning to keep him? Please tell me either way, just so I will know.

I know this is short notice, but I need some information on these things as soon as possible. Please send a response to your parents tonight so they can forward it to me. Thank you.

Ofcourse it seems that she's done; she just had a fun one night stand few days ago.

You know what? Most of those issues are things that are under the jurisdiction of family court in a divorce proceeding...yet she hasn't mentioned one. That's curious.

But, again, Ryan. Why are you reading her emails? These are hurtful, are they not? Didn't you just commit last night to Jennifer's three tests on whether to break Plan B or not? What's up, man?

We need your parents to come here and read some information about how to be proper intermediaries.

Anyone got a good link for them to read?

I'd typically say someone more nuetral would be in order but considering Jennifer's advice perhaps your parents will be able to carry some of the load by delivering Plan A type messages unbeknownst to you. You stay safe...ww gets the message.

They should hold off on a response to the above email.

Mr. Wondering

don't read her emails ryan....it's part of plan B.....reading her emails is not staying dark and it will drive you insane.....

Well,

Here I am sitting at home thinking that it is done. I met my WW last night for dinner, just a quick sit down to talk about the 9 things she had on her list. I was ready to PLAN A so that she could see me as a good guy again. Didn't work. I was waiting and when she walked in she was on her cell phone talking to someone, and when she was getting close she said "I love you" I asked who it was and she said it was her mother. I should have left it at that, but I asked to see her phone. She immediatly went into defense mode, and I started walking out. She was behind me telling me that she didn't have to answer to me anymore. I calmly told her that if we are going to be talking about our maritial assets, I needed her to give me some honesty. We stood out in the cold arguing, but eventually went inside. We talked about how I want to make a new life with her and how she wanted a clean seperation. I told her that I don't do seperations and that I want to create a new life. I think that trying to educate her is a LB. She kept getting more and more upset that there was no other way for me. We finished dinner and walked back outside, we stopped at her car, and she was pushing about talking to an attorney and how I needed to get my own attorney so that we could settle this. I told her I don't do divorce and that if she wanted it she would have to do it own her own. This made her furious, she turned her back on me and go in her car and drove off.

We talked a couple more times today, we scheduled a time tomorrow to go to the storage unit to get some things for her parents visit next week.

I am convinced that she is still in the affair with the OM, so I did some more digging and I revealed to his sister, his dad, and his mother today. The father was very suspicious, he mentioned he had a long career in law enforcement. I gave him all the information, but he said he didn't know how he would approach the subject. His sister said that she would talk to him. The mother was the most upset, she didn't know how to talk to him, but was going to talk to his sister. I should have revealed to them a long time ago, but I didn't know how to find them. I ended up running background checks on OM, and I found his sister and did a background check on her and it brought up the rest of the family.

My wife was super pissed again about the exposure. She has been telling me that she isn't talking to him and hasn't been for 2+ weeks. I felt like saying if your not seeing/talking to him why do you care? but I didn't.


I guess I am back to seeing if the pressure will stop the affair.

Ryan.

Well, I guess you should rescind your Plan B letter also...and get back with Jennifer to tell her the latest so she can make some recommendations.