Wow lots to think about. I don't know what to do. I know that what I am doing feels pretty natural, but I don't know how the female mind works when in her situation. Will my gifts become -Pushy, Clingy, Needy, Etc.-- I posted another question aimed towards WW to find out what they were thinking if the BS got them gifts or were overly nice? She tells me she feels very guilty if I give her anything, and that she doesn't want me to get her anything.

Ryan.

Iwon't,

Nah! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Nothing to think about Longhorn and Mr. W are seeing what I saw in your post...progress. Baby steps. She called you back and admitted she cannot do what she knows you need because she is in contact. You are planting seeds my friend and it seems some are starting to take route. Mr. W, I believe, mentioned what plan B is really for, it is to protect YOUR love for her. If your Love bank goes to zero there will be no reconciliation, therefore you need to watch it carefully. But, if you can hang with plan A for awhile. Set your boundaries, be a little "inconsistent" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> sometimes. Supportive, but a bit aloof sometimes. Other times be very supportive. Don't talk about the A so much but try to reestablish "diplomatic relations" again.

It seems you are doing better than you realize and the fact that she wonders HOW you can love her, is a good thing because that means she knows you do. what she doesn't understand completely yet is that love is primarily a verb, an action, not just a feeling. You promised to love her not necessarily "feel in love with her".

So hang with plan A for awhile longer, keep planting seeds, and nuturing the ones you have planted, but guard your boundaries, it will never do for you to get "plowed under in the garden" so to speak by her behaviors.

Time and patience and I think the time will come when you will know exactly what your decision should be in this marriage.

God Bless,

JL

Surviving:

In this case, if Ryan Plan B's, and WW decides, "Oh Well" than it could be over for Ryan.

If Ryan Plan A's through the Holidays, Is available, but aloof, sometimes, and becomes the man that WW married, and continues to show his love, and WW decided to dump him anyway, then, what has he lost?

Up until this point, your right, WW has ONLY asked about financial things. Until, seemingly, this phone call.

When Ryan put his foot down, she immediately responded with "OMG! I could just LOSE Him!"

Plan B might be appropriate. Look, SHE has lost him, but heres a way back.

And she just might read the plan B letter and think, "Well, he's done, I can't do that, and away I go."

But, Ryan has the hook in now, he needs to keep bringing in the line, because WW likes the bait so far.

And nothing I say should counteract what Jennifer might have told him.

But unless she specifically told him it was time, I would hang in Plan A, until at least the holidays are done. Many Opportuniites to make LB deposits during the Holidays. Some might cause additional anguish for Ryan. But, Ryan knowing, that he fought the GOOD fight, and did all he could, is in his future best interest.

LG

Thank You everyone.

I had a great talk with my wife at Starbucks the morning. I was running a little late and she called to see if she could order me anything. When I arrived she had a table for us and we sat and talked for 40 minutes. We didn't talk about anything in particular, just lots of pleasant conversation, about friends and family. I talked a little about me new job, and she seemed happy that I was excited about it. All in all I think it was a nice time. Regardless of what is going on it is nice to be able to talk to her, since we both know each other so well.

Ryan.

This line is funny if said with a pirate accent.


Good job.

Like JL said described it's just like you are dating her again. Keeping your emotions in check...playing it cool (pirate accents = uncool, just so ya know) Only you've got the advantage of KNOWING exactly what she likes and dislikes. YOU were chosen by God to be her husband. Her perfect gift. Be confident for really SHE would be/will be lost without you. She NEEDS you but just doesn't know it yet.

Mr. Wondering

After our great meeting this morning. I called her this evening to see how her day had been. She was very short with me.... almost angry. She asked if there were any issue, if not then to have a nice night. She was going out.

Let the roller coaster ride continue. I don't understand phone calls like that, if she was scared from our meeting this morning or ???

Oh well like you all say, I can only control myself.

Have a great weekend,
Ryan.

One last thing.

For those of you that have interacted with a WS, how do you deal with the ups and downs? I mean I had a wonderful morning, and walked away feeling great and then 10 hours later I get a mean and angry talked down to attitude. Is it just a part of the game? Is there a way to predict the angry attitude? I have heard that after a nice encounter to expect the WS to then back away. Should you have a nice encounter and then back away yourself as a way to get away from the hurtful behavior? I know these are all questions that don't really have answers, but I thought if anyone had experience with these emotional ups and downs they could shed some light.

Ryan.

I don't know why, but I felt like I needed to do something, so I sent OM an email, maybe just to turn up the heat? He might laugh at it, or he might see that I am going to be a pain and it would be easier to find another "unmarried" woman to see.

I also sent him the 31 reasons to stop an affair.

I know it won't do much, but I feel better when I do something.

So here is the email:

OM,

Just so you know I am going to continue to work on rebuilding my marriage. WW has told me that you two are still in contact. I have even been there when you call... I am not going to give up. I love WW more than anything in the world. We had a wonderful morning together yesterday and she is doing great. She has been a huge part of my life, and we have shared a lot together in the last 10 years. It is upsetting that you can so easily walk away from your wife and hurt your children, but I am not willing to do that. I stood in front of her family and mine and promised to love and protect her for life. I will fight everyday for my wife, and the new life that I am willing to give her.

As a father you took a vow to protect your wife and your family, you are the provider and role model. Are you happy with the role are you setting for your children? If you don't believe the horribly negative effects that divorce has on children please read:

http://www.public.iastate.edu/~rhetoric/105H16/cova/jlscova.html

""So many persons think divorce a panacea for every ill, find out, when they try it, that the remedy is worse than the disease" (Qtd in Harper 192). Divorce, in any circumstance, rips a child apart, tossing him/her from one house to another, limiting time spent with his/her parents, and confusing him/her. There are very few reasons that would prove to be more beneficial for the parent to leave than to stay and endure his/her marriage. Usually it is more advantageous to children if their parents work through their differences rather than get a divorce."


So please make sure that you are doing the "right" thing.

I will be there for WW, I will be able to meet her most important emotional needs, and she is the most important thing in my life.

Oh and please stop threatening me with litigation, if you believe you have a case, please go forward with it. I have nothing to hide.

Ryan.

As far as dealing with the roller coaster ride, live your life expecting nothing from WW at this point. If she gives you a few crumbs from time to time, enjoy them only for the moment but don't assume any of those moments mean anything in particular. Don't read any more into her being nice to you than you do her being hostile, okay? It's way too soon to start expecting her to be working on the marriage.

I am not a proponent of confronting the OM, Ryan, and I don’t know why you keep engaging him in a long-distance war of words. You already know he has no sense of honor and no integrity or he wouldn't have made a play for a married person in the first place. With that in mind, what purpose is served by continuing to send emails back and forth to him.

I'd stop it, were I you. Save the ones you already have in a safe place (off site) and turn his threats of legal action over to an attorney. Frankly, there's nothing quite so impressive to a person who knows he or she is bluffing as a return letter written under the fancy letterhead of a good attorney. If your attorney suggests OM might better hire a good attorney himself because YOU are entertaining ideas of filing suit for blackmail, misuse of authority, false official statements, and/or harassment, I suspect he’ll tuck his tail between his legs very quickly. Have you retained an attorney yet...perhaps for just this limited purpose?

Stay with the program, Ryan. Any progress will come in baby steps, and it's too soon to see any/much. Don't read anything into what she says or does at this point because you'll drive yourself up a wall with alternative interpretations and that's definitely contraindicated right now.

Stay with your Plan A, and work hard on yourself, okay?

LH

Thanks Longhorn,

I was just talking with someone on the board about my problem. I have a need to do something all the time. It isn't just in this situation, but I am a very stir crazy person. I know I need to learn to slow down, but I just feel helpless if I do that. I was sitting here today, and I was thinking about what I could do, and I know if I got the letter I wrote, it would make me think twice about what I was doing. I guess that is the difference, between a wayward and a committed spouse.

I am going to continue with my PLAN A, but even that needs some fine tuning. I am smothering her right now. She thinks that when I call her I am doing it to check up on her (to find out where she is, who she is with, what she is doing, etc.) in some cases it is, but just because I want her to know that I care about what she is doing.

So for this next week things to work on:
- Not smothering my wife, maybe only call her once or twice
- Make sure I am working hard on myself
- Get the house cleaned spotless
- Maybe do some shopping (just for me)
- Start working on enjoying time away from her instead of worrying about her

Any other good ideas?

Ryan.

Ryan,


When nice things happen, just say to yourself "this is only temporary".

Then you can keep it in perspective.

That is what I do and the rollercoaster has stabilized.

I really don't expect anything I want.

Seems like good behavior needs to happen consistently over a long period of time before it can be considered "real".

Observer,

Thanks for the perspective. It is just so hard to love someone who doesn't love you back, and then when you start to see small signs of the woman you love it is hard. I know that we are all here because we have felt this to some degree, it is amazing that people don't understand how painful affairs are. You would think that through word of mouth from BS, that affairs would be looked down upon even more then they are now. I can't even count how may songs and movies I have heard and seen that glamorize affairs.

Ryan.

Ryan,


So true.

I'm so sorry this has happened to you. I feel your pain so deeply and have prayed for your situation.

If this is any comfort at all, know that there are people out there who care - even if you don't know them.

That's what I like about this board.

*sigh* Ryan you already know how I feel about this as well as your other friends do. We know finer aspects of this situation that some of ya'll here do not. But ryan is STUBBORN (you know you are) and doesn't listen....he will find out the hard way because thats how he learns...we don't love him less for it....thats why we are friends to be here for him and support him even if it bothers us immensly to see him go through it like watching him beat his head against a wall. I gotta go to my mediation appointment....later.

Well as many of you have already pointed out the Email to the OM was pretty futile. It probably had no impact on him, but made my wife a little upset. She said that it was hurtful.... I am not quite sure what to say about that. This guy is sleeping with my wife and I am the one being hurtful? I guess we really know whose side she is on. I am so frustrated. I wrote the emails as an emotional release for myself, and it comes full circle to kick me in the [censored].

I sure am getting closer to being able to let go. I still want to pick up the phone and call her. I still want to make excuses to see her, but it is getting more and more difficult to remain happy about it. I am getting semi-hostile answers to my questions no matter what they are, because she thinks it is all a plan or a way to check up on her.

If her attitude is like that what is the best thing to do? Kill her with kindness? or just leave her alone?

I think I might look at the 180 thread that I saw somewhere and try that since, my way doesn't realy seem to be working.

Ryan.

Wait a minute, Ryan. What have you gotten lately from Jennifer? You started this last phase working under her guidance...and she's the professional, right? Shouldn't you let her evaluate your progress and help you adjust your Plan A, B, or whatever?

BTW, you're still expecting your WW to think and speak rationally? Ryan, she's still in the fog. She's still no more rational than an alien who has beamed down from the mother ship hovering overhead. Expect nothing but incomprehensible babble from her until she finishes a total withdrawal from OM--a thing she hasn't even begun yet. Were I you, I'd picture your WW as one of those alien creatures in that Star Wars tavern. She has more in common with them these days than she does you.

Ryan:

I'm with Longhorn here. What is Jennifer saying?

LG

I haven't talked to Jennifer for a while, last month hit me pretty hard with almost $1000 in counseling. I know I need to call her, I just don't know what I have to tell her.

Good - Wife seems remorseful about what she has done and that she was still lying to me
Bad - She is still lying to me.

Good - We had a wonderful morning over coffee
Bad - Later she called me and told me that I was being hurtful to OM?

Good - She knows that it won't work with OM
Bad - She says she doesn't want it to work with me. She wants to develop herself as a single person.

I don't know if it is babble or the truth. She has been going out with all of her single friends and acting single, maybe she really does want to just not be in a relationship? At this point I don't know.

Ryan.

Those are the things you should talk to Jennifer about, Ryan, and don't forget to tell her about the impact those things are having on you! If you can make it happen, I'd recommend you call Jennifer as soon as you can.