HOPELESS CASE I THINK!!!!!. My Wife and I have been married for 14 years (this Oct 20th) I am 44 and she is 47. She has been having an affair for two years that I know about. I found about it two years ago and confronted her (by catching her) about a beeper message from someone telling her that he loved her. I knew in my heart who it was because she had been spending a LOT of time talking to him at his real estate office. He is the man that sold us our condo. He is a 60-year-old man. I guess it started because I was busy at work and she was the one who took the papers back and forth to his office. When I confronted her with it she acted surprised and said "Oh my God I've hurt you" I didn't think you loved me anymore"! She assured me that they had never had sex and that he just made her feel good about herself, listened to her and she wasn't attracted to him that way and that he was really just a friend and he may have the wrong idea. <P> The next few weeks we actually got along better than we had in a LONG time. She was the perfect Wife attentive, sexy, loving etc. and I joked that I would give her a licence to cheat every ten years. I in turn was the "perfect" husband and she said she loved me more than when we first got married. However, I guess the addiction was too much and I innocently (really) drove by his office and saw her car there a couple of months later. I confronted her and again she assured me that they were "just friends" and that she had to tell him why she hadn't called or stopped by. I knew it was a lie because she had told me she had already told him this. I demanded she NOT call or see him again. Things went downhill from there. We fought about it a lot and she wrote me a letter saying she hated herself for what she did, she had destroyed my trust in her and that if she was going to have to pay for it the rest of her life that it would kill her and that I should just leave. She ended the note with, I need you and I love you. <BR> I tried to back off the issue but it kept coming up. I know now, I should have gotten us into counseling RIGHT away!! I admit I was cruel about it and everytime we argued I brought it up. Sometimes out of the blue. Like, "Pass the salt honey" Oh, by the way DOES HE TAKE SALT?!!!! I could not help myself, I know now it was because I knew in my heart she was still in contact with him. <BR> My fears were realized about 14 months into this nightmare. I again innocently saw her cell phone bill (They are BOTH in my name) and there was a call to me at work, then a call to him (longer) a call to me then a call to him ALL THE WAY DOWN THE PAGE!!! By chance she came to my work that day and as much as I tried not to deal with it there, I exploded!!! I told her he could have her, I hated her and that she was a tramp. This is the complicated part. My Wife has had SERIOUS emotional problems all her life. I had to check her into a (for lack of a better word) mental hospital that night. <BR> She has provoked most of our arguments. I just learned to hurt back after a while. I know I was wrong now. This is her third marriage (5 year first, 1 year second) I have helped her raise her two children from her first marriage from the time they were 12 and 10. The first husband "ran for his sanity" and eventually cut of contact with the children. He calls her evil. And she's starting to look that way to me. <BR> I could go on but I want to bring you to the present. We had good and bad times after she got out of the hospital. I thought things were slowly getting better. Our monthly fights because of her PMS and other problems are something I've tried to be patient about and expected like clockwork. We then started to withdraw and slept in different rooms sleeping together only after sex or just on occasion. We THOUGT it was good because we BOTH slept better etc… About 6 months ago she told me that "her friend" WAS just a friend and that I was being silly and I told her "If he's just a friend than I have no right to tell you to not talk to him" I knew she would anyway, and I was busy at work and tired of begging her to stop. I mean the guy is 60 years old, makes less money is missing teeth in the front and can HARDLY carry on a conversation, we've been together a LONG time right? How could she pick HIM over me??? Well, she did. I found a half-written love note in the trash and then I searched and found a poem with something like "I want to walk beside you forever" and due to the date and all I knew they were meant for him. <BR> I ONCE again confronted her and she of course tried to lie and say she wrote them to me. I asked her "If you were me wouldn't you want ME to not lie to you"? She then admitted that she TRIED to feel this way about him but didn't and wanted to feel this way about me and didn't. I STILL let it go. What a fool, huh? I guess I love my Wife. We talked about separating for a while and both agreed that we could not imagine not growing old together. She decided to leave because it was her fault we were in this mess. She found a mobile home she could buy cheaper than she could rent. I gave her the down payment in return she would sign off rights to our condo if we divorced. I then found out she couldn't get financed and that HE was cleaning out his account to finance it. Lies again I found out later they planned on moving in TOGETHER!! In separate rooms???? Unlikely. We actually drew closer and loving toward each other and she said, "Maybe I'm making a BIG mistake. I told her we needed time apart (I was actually looking forward to it but didn't tell her) She later said I sent mixed messages. I guess I was confused too. We made love, talked slept together and she asked why I wasn't like this before. Because HE was ALLWAYS there in our life because HE of course was the realtor in the condo sale!! <BR> Then came the final (I thought) explosion. 6 weeks ago. I tried to make love to her one morning and she said no. I asked why she said she had cramps. I probed I asked if it was because she loved him and she said yes. I blew up!! I told her to get out (the mobile home was supposed to close in two weeks) and she cried and I asked "You going to run to HIM now" She said no. I waited a half-hour after she left and went to his office. At first I thought she wasn't there and kept driving. Then I decided to confront him and went back. She was there alright! She hid her car behind the shed!! As I drove in she, the lover and his partner were walking back from the car. I said "Oh another lie, what a surprise"!! I then told the guy I wanted to talk to him. We went out back and the partner took her inside. I asked the guy what the f…. was going on between he and my Wife!!!!!! He told me he loved her. I almost killed him!! I said, "You LOVE MY WIFE"!!! As I poked my finger in his face. He said, "I care about her" I threatened to kill him.I never hit him. I wish I had. I told him his punishment was he had to live with himself for stealing another man's Wife. His wife died 10 years ago. HE never got over it I guess. And my Wife LOOKS like her! I then went inside and confronted her. I ranted and raved in front of the partner (who said nothing) and laid the big guilt trip. She was almost smirking! I told her to come and get the rest of the buy-out today and get out of my life. Then I asked her (outside and alone) WHAT DOES HE HAVE THAT I DON'T HAVE??? She said " He listens to me and he doesn't want sex! I told her that I wasn't sick to want sex and that they deserved each other because she hated sex too and they were both sick and that God gave us sex. And she told me I could that young girl that was attracted to me and F… her. (this was 6 years ago) I told her I wish I had before in EVERY way!! And left.<P> By the time (1 hr) she showed up, I had changed the locks!! She cried and said she was sorry this happened that she never meant to hurt me. She told me that she didn't know what love was. I made her sign a quick claim like paper to give up her interest in our condo. On the way out of the driveway she said "Now we're BOTH alone" <BR> I was almost in the hospital myself. I didn't sleep or eat for 4 days. I found your website. THANK GOD!!! I found out a lot of the reason she did this was MY FAULT!!! I learned about MY part in this!! So I called her. She was SOOO cold!! "I can't believe you're calling me"!! Leave me alone!!! I was excited about what I had learned!! I told her and she cried and said it was too late. I told her that it wasn't really I read this and that! I asked to see her after work. She said OK and came over. I went to hug her and she almost backed through the door! We talked about her work (BOY DID I LISTEN!!) And then she said "I'm going to say something that will hurt you" I love Walter and could VERY easily marry him" "It would be SOO easy because he's calm and listens to me and you deserve a Wife that's more active sexually (She's been told she's was sexually abused as a child) . She said it would take an "Act of God" to fix our marriage" <BR> She started calling me every day and we talked for hours on the phone. She told me to go to counseling MYSELF to understand why I verbally abused her. This guy thinks he's SAVING her from me! In someways I guess he did. I've learned so much. <BR> Our son got married and we got along so well that we started kissing and holding hands at the mall picking out her dress and my suit. Before we went in she broke down and cried and told me that she loved me and that we would work it out but she needed time to work on herself and I did too. I PROMISED her that this would be the SINGLE greatest thing that happened in our marriage because I FOUND OUT ABOUT MY PART!! <BR> She told me that she realized that HE was just a Father figure to her and that she just couldn't tell him that . (she has had a POOR relationship with her father they think it may have been HIM who abused her sexually). She said, You have NO IDEA the hole I've dug myself in"! I can't get out of it that easy!<P> We had a great time at the wedding and she kept saying things like "When we get back together" and a couple of days BEFORE the wedding she called MY Mother and said " Don't worry Ma, HE (me) and I will work this out I just need some time" I'm starting to think that she did it so the wedding would go smoothly. She called me a couple of days after the wedding (she calls everyday) and asked me to take her to lunch. It was the day we found out that our pregnant daughter was having a boy (which I wanted) and we were both excited. She also said she wanted to talk about "Some plans" she had. She told me that she told HIM she wanted her name off the Mobile home and said she would give me the money back and I could fix up our condo and we would have to sell it and move from the area WHEN we get back together. <BR> Then something happened, her Father was diagnosed with cancer and has VERY little time to live. She stopped talking about US and that is understandable. But I found out that HE left HIS girlfriend of 9 years and MOVED INTO the motel she was at (ONE BED I SAW IT) THE NIGHT I THREW HER OUT! The mobile home STILL hasn't closed (a girl that rents it won't move) and they are living in one of his listings that is waiting to close the end of November. The mobile home MAY close the 15th of October. She leads me to believe that she's alone. She lies STILL!! I don't push it because I can't. I asked her a week ago if she got the money back again and she says she can't. And gets mad if I push. The plot thickens. HIS girlfriend called ME two nights ago!!! She told me that My wife led them BOTH to believe that I was a monster and that she, of course is crushed to and cried that she wants HER MAN back. I assured her that it WAS possible after reading the books of yours I bought. She is now hopeful. She told me that HE CAN'T afford the mobile home with-out my Wife's down payment AND with-out my wife's monthly income. I'm hoping that THIS is the HOLE she has dug. I told her to call her man and tell him how she feels so HE could have a way out. HE thought she hated him because SHE changed the locks, took his car and took him off her CD at the bank. My Wife and I haven't talked about US for two weeks and I'm worried again. Since I NOW am SURE they are living together. My Wife called today and I asked her if we could talk and she wasn't responsive and changed the subject. I'm afraid that she's changed her mind again. PLEASE HELP!!!! <BR>

A couple suggestions: 1. Have you actually read the MB articles?<BR>2. Keep your posts shorter and you'll get more replies. 3. You guys need to be in counseling and this site won't suffice as a substitute.<P>Just some friendly hints...Hang in there.<P>------------------<BR>When you go through deep waters and great trouble, I will be with you. Isaiah 43:2<P>

How can I get her into counseling when she isn't at home? She wants ME to go first and then her then both.

Please Help,<BR> <BR>Gosh, there are so many aspects of this, it's hard to determine where to start. <P>First, read, read read. Everything you can get your hands on. ALL aspects of this site & lots of relationship books,,my favorite,, "After the Affair" by Janis Spring. First, they make you look at what caused this destruction in your marriage and second, let you know that the feelings you are experiencing are normal,,,you are not crazy. That alone was a big relief to me!! And they give you some real constructive advice and rebuilding tips. I know when your whole world has tipped upside down, when you dont know if you're coming or going, when you're so sick to your stomach you can't keep anything down, when you can't sleep,,the last thing you want to do is sit down and read a book. But do it!! You'll be suprised at the insight you'll get.<P>Second, get counseling. You are going to hear this 50 million times. Whether your W goes or not,,you go!! You need to get strong. You can't help your W if you can't help yourself. Dealing with a floundering relationship is draining and you need to have your head on straight. Check with your insurance. Many companies cover counseling. Whether you think you need it or not, you do. And I'm not picking on you in particular. Martial problems are so complex, you really need an educated third party to help you muddle through this with an end result that you can live with. <P>Please help, you are not a hopeless case! I promise. As long as you breath and care,, there's hope. But right now you need to take care of you!! Please take some action. Read, get counseling, and, oh yeah,,some legal advice. That quick claim and the mobile home transaction needs some legal attention to save you any future problems.<P>Please Help, continue to post your questions and concerns. There are alot of people out here that can help,,in many different ways. And I wish you the best of luck,,,,,

Thanks for your help. I READ AND READ ALL DAY!! My friend is going through the same thing but is close to moving back after counseling. I talk to him (and anyone who will listen) ALL DAY. Good thing I'm self employed or I'd have been fired by now. My home business IS suffering a little though. I asked God to take care of it for a while. I just talk to her (listen really) when she calls and hold my breath till the next. Sometimes she calls two or three times a day. Sometimes for hours, sometimes for minites. I told her I missed her today and wanted to talk about US and she backed off and said "What, you miss the fighting?" she doesn't trust ME!!! Can you believe it?? I have a session with Dr. Harley by phone tomorrow. PLEASE PRAY FOR OUR MARRIAGE!!! THANKS TO ALL

Please Help,<P>So sorry to hear about your situation. Listen to the advice you are getting here. It is good and solid from people who really care. <P>I know that you think you have learned so much about yourself and what went wrong. I had the same reaction after I found this site. What I discovered later was that this information has given me a framework for discussion. It has opened the door to really change what I was doing wrong in my life. This will take time. There is no quick-fix and you cannot expect your W to believe everything you say. And you do have some history. It sounds like you have a temper and she may have felt the brunt of it for a number of years. My W is bad with anger. She had the thinking that she is right about nearly everything and that my judgement or thought should take a back seat. She would not admit that, of course, but that is what it was like from my perspective. It began to eat at me. It seemed to me that I could not do anything right and that she was being too picky. Does that sound like it relates to you?<P>In your note you indicated you found out what you were doing wrong? You might as well express it here. It's a pretty safe place.<P><P>------------------<BR>7Habits (Dane)<BR>"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." Einstein.<BR>

THANKS DANE, How long has it been for you? Yes, she picked me apart and I always felt I was defending myself. I called myself a "counter-puncher" and that's how I was. She has problems and I should have been more patient I guess. But MY TAKER started to come out more and more. I felt that SHE was taking and taking and taking. I guess that's when we went into withdrawell. She has REALLY been testing me the last six weeks and I have been patient. Like the time she came to get a TV (I didn't want to give it to her inside because I thought of OM watching the Redsox on it!!!) She held the door for me but I couldn't get it threw. I asked her to put the thing on to hold the door open and hold the other end she got nervious because in the past I would get impatient when she asked "What thing" I then asked her to open the door of her car. She asked "Which door"? There was only ONE POSSIBLE SPOT in the car (it was packed to the roof with her/our stuff. I patiently told her which door (as my back ws BREAKING!!) and on the way back to the house she asked why I didn't get mad at her for taking so long to figure out such a simple thing. I laughed and affectionally picked her up by the waist and said. What do you think I'm faking? I've learned alot. Do you think as soon as you come back I'm going to pounce on you and start yelling over these things again? She said yes!! I asked her to forgive me and give me a break because I was really trying now. I realised that BEFORE I got upset because she never held the door or opened the door or ANYTHING!! I would HAVE to tell her!! On the other hand if SHE was coming in I would RUN to the door and open it and take the package from her. I looked at her as inconsiderate. Like I open the car door for her and it's 50 below zero out and I have to fumble for the keys to open the drivers door when ALL she had to do was HIT THE electric door lock to let me in!! It always seemed like I did for her and she didn't have a clue because she was too busy with herself. These are the small things of course but I guess I held in my anger over the BIG needs and it spilled over into these type of things. She just spoke a different language. Like she keeps saying "It's NEVER been about love" I wish I knew these things before.

Please Help,<P>Don't worry about the length of your posts. I found it helps a lot just to get it off your chest. Those that are interested will read it , those that aren't won't. Go ahead let it out, vent and ask your questions. Good luck