My husband is in the midst of withdrawl from NC so obviously he is sad and depressed. I told him once we get through this then we can start to work on us. I told him over time it would get easier and not hurt so much. He said if I did not see or talk to you eventually I would not miss you either. He said he missed his first wife at first but then it went away. I am not going to try to explain the difference of "romantic love" office affair to the love we used to have in our marriage. He asked how do we get it back I just don't see how it is possible. I told him I don't know but we will figure it out. He does not read he says he does not need a book to tell him how he feels he knows how he feels. He has been going to IC and the C told him he has cognitive distortion and needs to change the way he thinks. He says it is impossible to change the way you think.

I have been trying to do a good plan A but sometimes it gets overwhelming and it seems like it won't work or he won't try. He does not understand why I told my friends and his family. I guess he wanted me to curl up in a ball and slowly die inside without the support of others? I realize he is being TOTALLY irrational and this behavior is just immature selfish and ridiculous but it still hurts

Did he end contact with the OW?

yes however since the first NC there has been two times she has called him (with a crisis) which I told him everytime that happens it takes what he is feeling back to day one. I don't think she exactly has the same "love" feelings for him that he does for her. They used to work together and she was fired. She had left some voicmails and e mails that were discovered when she was let go that really brought the affair to light. However in his warped mind I think he still believes somehow they can be friends. He is VERY angry with me for telling his Mother as well

Kris, then just hang on while he goes through withdrawal. As long as contact has ended, you have a chance to pull this back together. I would find out what it was that drew him to the OW because that may clue you into what was missing in the marriage. Do you have any of the Harley books?

yes I have read Surviving the Affair and am getting ready to read His Needs Her Needs. I have also read a book by a different author called After the Affair.

I would like to do the EN questionaire but not sure it is the right time. He does not believe in books or that anyone can tell him what he is feeling because he knows what he is feeling. he is going to IC basically because between me and his mother he has done it just to go through the motions. He is however taking some anti depressants which have seemed to help

so how long plan A

when and what are your plans for plan B?

ARK

D Day was September 14th and he left to live with his Mom for one week. I asked him to come home because I said I felt being apart is not going to help us find our way back. After one week he moved back home and since then he has broken no contact twice when she called. Once on the phone and once he went to console her in "crisis". Apparently he thought he deserved a gold star because he told me the truth and he did not touch her or kiss her. That second broken no contact was October 3rd. I have actively been trying to do a good plan A since he moved back hom and I discovered this website so maybe about a month. I just get frustrated with his lack of trying.

We have no children and I know plan B is the next step but I also know it will be the step to the end.

Kris, he has to agree to never talk or see her again. Will he do that? Would he send her a letter to that effect?

Does his mother know about the affair?

yes his Mother knows and has been a tremendous help to me through this. I think his parents finding out was shattering to him and it still very much angers him that I told them.
he as agreed not to call her, he deleted her number from his phone but when you get right down to it no he has not agreed to no contact becasue "they are friends" so basically if and when she was to call him he will talk to her especially because he feels like he is dying inside from not talking to her. He is no longer speaking to his parents because the last time he broke the no contact they basically told him he was an idiot and it got very heated so he walked out and has not spoken to them since.

Kris,

It is symmantics but he doesn't need to change the way he thinks. He needs to change his perspective on marriage, commitment, and himself. Changing perspective is relatively easy to do, it can begin with empathy. Changing oneself is much harder to do.

If he doesn't think he can get the "feelings" back ask him to explain how he got the feelings for the OW. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Seriously, if you read here long enough, it is about meeting needs but often in ways people don't appreciate. For example if you read here long enough you here stories about affairs where someone at work listens to a co-workers troubles, tries to help them, consoles them, and eventually "feelings" start to develop between these two.

Now on the face of it you can see why the person being helped and listened to might develop feelings because their needs are being met, right? But, what is not often realized that helping people meets peoples needs as well. Many men particularly love to be NEEDED, the white knight syndrome.

So if you realize these things, then it is conversely true that feelings can be developed within the married couple. Plus, feelings come and go, which is why we do not promise to "feel in-love" with our spouse when we marry. We promise to love them as in the verb to love. It is an action and therefore we can promise to take loving actions no matter how we feel at the time.

So getting the "feelings" back is a good thing, but it may take not just you meeting his needs, but him helping you as well.

Just some thoughts.

God Bless,

JL

In other words, he REFUSES to end contact, which absolutely PREVENTS your chances of recovery. I would let him know that only complete and total no contact for life will suffice. That is the only way you will feel safe and the only way your marriage will recover. It is PROFOUNDLY disrespectful and CRUEL of him to stay in refuse to end contact and you should not live like that.As long as he remains in contact he will never withdraw. for you, that is like living a game of Russian Roulette.

Kris, unless he will agree to end contact, you should go to PLAN B. Don't even think about settling for less unless you want to be dealing with this for several more years.

Dr. Harley in Coping with Infidelity: Part 2
How Should Affairs End?


Never see or communicate with a former lover

Once an affair is first revealed, whether it's discovered or admitted, the victimized spouse is usually in a state of shock. The first reaction is usually panic, but it's quickly followed by anger. Divorce and sometimes even murder are contemplated. But after some time passes (usually about three weeks), most couples decide that they will try to pull together and save their marriage.

The one having an affair is in no position to bargain, but he or she usually tries anyway. The bargaining effort usually boils down to somehow keeping the lover in the loop. You'd think that the unfaithful spouse would be so aware of his or her weaknesses, and so aware of the pain inflicted, that every effort would be made to avoid further contact with the lover as an act of thoughtfulness to the stunned spouse. But instead, the unfaithful spouse argues that the relationship was "only sexual" or was "emotional but not sexual" or some other peculiar description to prove that continued contact with the lover would be okay.

Most victimized spouses intuitively understand that all contact with a lover must end for life. Permanent separation not only helps prevent a renewal of the affair, but it is also a crucial gesture of consideration to someone who has been through ******. What victimized spouse would ever want to know that his or her spouse is seeing or communicating with a former lover at work or in some other activity?

In spite of career sacrifices, friendships, and issues relating to children's schooling, I am adamant in recommending that there be no contact with a former lover for life. For many, that means a move to another state. But to do otherwise fails to recognize the nature of addiction and its cure.

<snip>

We don't know if R.J. still sees his lover, but he says he has broken off all contact. In many cases where a person is still in town, that's hard to prove. But one thing's for sure, if he ever does see his lover, it will put him in a state of perpetual withdrawal from his addiction, and make the resolution of his marriage essentially impossible. In fact, one of the reasons he is not recovering after three months of separation may be that he is not being truthful about the separation.

Entire article at: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5060_qa.html

How to Survive an Affair chapter in HIS NEEDS, HER NEEDS
p. 177

...I have seen husbands build new and wonderful relationships with their wives but then go back to their lovers after five or six years of what appeared to be marital bliss. When I ask them why, they inevitably tell me they miss the woman terribly and still love her. At the same time they stoutly affirm they love their wives dearly and would not think of leaving them.

I believe a man like this has told the truth. He is hopelessly entangled and needs all the help possible to be kept away from his lover and stay faithful to his wife. I often recommend that a man once involved in an affair come in to see me every three to six months on an indefinite basis, just to talk about how things are going and to let me know how successfully he has stayed away from his lover. He must resign himself to a lifetime without her. HE MUST CERTAINLY NOT WORK WITH HIS FORMER LOVER AND SHOULD PROBABLY LIVE IN SOME OTHER CITY OR STATE. Even with those restrictions the desire for her company persists...

I actually printed out the Dear R.G letter and was planning on giving it to him tonight.

It is funny how I never realized that this man I married and fell madly in love with is so selfish.

He is under the influence of an affair. Kris, whatever you do, DO NOT settle for anything less than complete and total NO CONTACT. Even if you have to go to Plan B tomorrow. Cutting corners on this issue will cost you years of pain.

When he agrees to do this, ask him to write her a letter of no contact patterned after the one on SAA. you must approve it and you should mail it to her yourself. [he addresses the envelope]

Ask him to write it tonight after you tell him your boundary.

Dr. Harley's (From SAA)

(OP), I want you to know that out of respect and love for my wife and children, I have come to realize that I must never see or talk with you again. My relationship with you was a cruel indulgence that (BS) did not deserve. While I cannot completely repay (BS) for the pain I have caused her, I will do my best to become the husband she&#65533;s been missing. I care a great deal for my family and I would not want to do anything to risk their happiness. I will not make any further contact with you and I do not want you to make any contact with me. Please respect my desire to end our relationship.
Sincerely,
(WS)

What worked for me in part was I told my WW that I personally had no idea how to go about recovering our marriage but that I had found MB and that there were a bunch of people here that KNEW how, that there was a proven method that worked. I told her that unless she had any ideas of her own on how to fix things that we could choose to either fumble around ineffectively and probably watch our marriage go down the drain or we could take a leap of faith and give Harley and MB's program a committed effort.

She agreed to do so and we are making progress. Its interesting that your H is willing to go to counseling sessions but is opposed to taking advice from books. Perhaps you could get the MB CD's and get your husband to listen to them with you or on his own? He has to at some point agree to participate in the recovery process or he is creating a self fulfilling prophecy and you will end up in Plan B.

My husband is selfish and lazy and also is very passive aggressive. He has lived his life telling everyone what he thinks they want to hear to avoid confrontation and he sticks his head in the sand hoping when he pops back up things are better. Because of this he internalizes things and they build and build until it is too late. I am going to offer about maybe a CD he can listen to. This is a man that won't even read a Playboy because he just simply does not like to read (unless it is the ESPN message boards..LOL)

I have been doing fairly well on my LB when it comes to crying and angry outbursts however I have been LB when it comes to relationship talk and I have also been mothering him which is a problem.

He complains his IC is an idiot and does not know what he is doing and he is mad because the counselor will not address the issue of why he misses the OW. However I think he is actually getting something from it because he continues to make a follow up appt week after week. I think pigs will fly before he actually admits it is helping him.

I have also noticed any time we are intimate the next day he becomes withdrawn and depressed again. I am sure he thinks of her after the fact. On top of it I am ALWAYS making the first move and I think I need to stop that?

Kris, I think MB all comes on CDs in the home study set. There is also a very good video you could get for your H with Dr. Harley giving an overview of his principles: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6020_basicsdvd.html

Here is the home study course that is on CD: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi9000_courses.html

Do you think in your WH's warped mind he feels he is cheating on her with you? Can you give details as to how things progress? Not intimate details, just you start by touching/kissing him. Or do you verbally suggest sex? How does he respond? Does he seem interested right away or do you feel he does it to meet your needs?