Im new to this...that is...the forum...but Im desperate and in need of help and from what I have read, this path is well travelled..im in good company - let me preface by saying god bless all of you and I hope someday soon, you can all breathe.

Im currently seperated and living with a girlfriend that if I only met earlier, would be the daily celebration that life is good..I love her som uch I could vomit when I think about her in someone else's arms...but I am also VERY MUCH in love with my kids (4 year old daughter and 2 years old son) - I am worried that if I divorce...I wont forgive myself and will try for the rest of my life to keep my kids smiling -

my wife and I sat down 7 months ago and I explained that I was considering divorce...oru intimacy was non-existent - we bickered often - we have the house and the picket fence...all is good right? well, I just lost love for her - I met a woman AFTER I wanted to seperate and she just warms me up - every day - she taught me what love means. Im in a situation now where my wife is moving to another state - my family has rallied and has come to our support - my wife has even proven to me that she can fight liek ****** - I have been honest with her and have told her about the girlfriend - she apologizes for not being there and that she feels responsible for placing me on someone else's arms - the extraordinary thing here is that through all this pain, my family has grown stronger, relationships have improved and we could "move on" in a much stronger environment - the constant will be, however, that I am head over heals in love with my girlfriend....

please throw some insight my way....I never have wanted to plave the burden of what will ultimately be my decision on someone else....but I am hurting here...go back and pray and be a good father and let me kids grow up with 2 parents under 1 roof and constantly think of my girlfriend? OR go with my girlfriend, try to be the best father I can be speerated from my kids?

I want to just gove love and be happy....and I know I cannot resort to polygamy here (trying to keep my sense of humor)....please help!

There is just SOOO much wrong with this fact scenario I'm having difficulty even knowing where to begin. I can't fathom someone being this ignorant.

In the meantime there is a 2 year old and a 4 year old that have the misfortune of having a child as a father.

Listen...GO HOME TO YOUR WIFE...If she'll have you. Trust me...you'll forget about the girlfriend soon enough.

IF your marriage was/is so bad you should have divorced her BEFORE replacing her with your "girlfriend". A adulterous relationship built upon deceipt and lies is a terrible foundation for a relationship. It won't work. It's ADULTERY. It's sick. IT's WRONG and there is no way to make something good out of it.

You are throwing away your integrity and your life for what...some chick that will screw around with a married man and try to take him away from his 2 and 4 year old children.
She ain't all that. In most circles she's what they call an evil temptress or more harshly a wh[b][/b]ore.

Unfortunately...having been around here long enough to know...you won't heed or understand and single thing I said herein. You'll just think I'm mean. You are a lost cause (unless you end your adulterous affair and go home). I hope your wife moves far away and protects those babies from your insidious views on life, marriage, commitment, relationships.

People are not disposable and marriage isn't a contract which guarantees happiness. You have no right to leave your marriage (though your wife now does seeing that you are an adulterer)....YOU voluntarily took vows to love, honor and cherish...foresaking all others, did you not. No where did you say "unless you stop making me happy or I meet someone else I love". Thus, end your affair and beg for your wife's forgiveness. You don't deserve it.

Mr. Wondering

p.s. - The rest of your life...people will think and say about you and your girlfriend exactly what I said above. They won't say it to your face...but the reality is your status as adulterers will never disappear.

well - I can say that I appreciate your views in that they represent alot of the surface level opinions cast forth by folks that just are NOT IN the situation...make sense? -there is alot here that was not disclosed - about my wife - the fact is, I have been everything to our kids - and to her - but after years of me crying out for help, and with no reciprocation on her end or an effort to help....something had to be done -

so please try to cast aside any of your own experiences and place yourself in the shoes of someone that has been honest, up front, responsible, and trying...for years to make it work...but trying alone - it is only now, that we look over the precipice, the she has tried -

thoughts?

Well, MR was being blunt. You have a choice. You can be a father and either fix the marriage, or move near where they will be.
Or you can begin life anew with GF and always wonder whether you are the father you think yourself to be.

No man lets his kids move away without a fight, yet it appears you did. So, it seems you've already made your choice, the GF and the life you think you have (sans kids).

you met this "girlfriend" after you "wanted" to separate.
Not after you separated.

Did you let your wife know she was free to get a boyfriend at that time?

When did you get "honest" and tell her about your girlfriend?

ok - i have left alot out of this....i bought my wife a new home where I would be moving back in with her - out of state - to get a fresh start, and this is only because she finally started working so hard at US recently - I would never, even in a divorced scenario, be more than 5 minutes away from my children....ever - mrwondering brought up some good points, in that case...I owuld be an [censored]. - the cold hard truth is, I never wanted to have to even consider divorce - my wife slowly estranged me from family and friends....almost detested everythign I coveted - when I explained that there was an issue, she fell abck into denial -

now - i am looking to start fresh - *the crux of the issue is, I just feel like I am "divorcing" the girlfriend and feel terrible...the common denominator is that it is best to be with the kids...at the end of the day, my cold feet of moving back in with someone that had a loveless relationship with me for years has to be warmed up when i think of the kids seeing us together -

the girlfriend was aware of my situation - and at times, I was adament that a divorce was necessary...so she has gotten mixed signals....

look - you have to be happy...im starting to see that the closest I can get to that is through my kids - IF, there is no change between myself and my wife years from now...and as long as we are communicating...then perhaps after the kids are old enough to move out do we consider a seperation...

my wife and I chose to address the issues...rather than leave them buried and continue down the path of just being "glum"...we may end up fixing it...which would be wonderful - I guess Iam just not looking forward to the conversation with the girlfriend - granted, she will push me back if their is even a hint of this...i just hate to see her "go"...

Dr. Pepper;

Here is a link to another website where if you sign up for their newsletter it will give you a free downloadable copy of the webbook "31 Reasons to Stop your Affair".

It is an excellant breakdown of the prats and pitfalls of your current thinking.

Here is the link ---- > 31 Reasons link

What's ironic about your situation is the ONLY place you can actually ever truly find the happiness and love you think you've found is in the most unlikely of places YOU can imagine....back with your wife and kids.

The consequences for the choice YOU'VE ALREADY MADE will be steep. Not only YOU will be literally destroyed but your children, your grandchildren, your wife and your cute litte tramp girlfriend will suffer innumerable consequences as a result of your poor choice today.

What is it you actually want??? Do you want us to talk you out of it??? Do you want us to help you allieve your guilt?? Do you want a pat on the back and to be told it will all be OK??? It won't. This IS the biggest mistake of your life and you WILL regret it one day.

Please read the article I linked for you.

Mr. Wondering

lexxy - i explained to my wife after we were unofficially seperated (there has been no paperwork) for about 3 months that I had met a girl and was spending significant time with her -

we also went to counselling where it was discussed -

and yes, at that time, I told her it was ok for her to date if need be - truth is, im not sure I would mind that much if she dated...this is what needs to change once we get back together - I need to feel that protectiveness over her again - rather than just respect her as the mother of my children and a friend - if that feeling does not come back..well, than it is what it is and I just need to continue to maintain the happy family

mrwondering,

I appreciate that link...got 2 minutes into it and read this:

As the apostle Paul explains in I Corinthians 7, once we decide not to do something, another force goes into effect and we want that thing more than ever. This is human nature. It’s not that we want to do the wrong thing, in fact we want to do the right thing, but the very decision not to do that wrong thing creates the ravenous desire to do that very thing.

that may sum up why I am so conflicted - thanks for the help

Dr. Pepper,

Remember this...

Love is a choice.

Also..don't feel too bad about breaking up with the girlfriend. She's a big girl and should know the inherent risks of getting involved with a married man with kids.

If you want help with the best ways to end it please talk about it here. We strongly recommend a NO CONTACT letter..drafted by you, using Dr. Harley's form, indicating your regrets for hurting your wife and kids and requesting that your girlfriend have no contact whatsoever with you for life. You then give the letter to your wife and have her send it to OW (other woman).

Although it's hard to see...the pain your "girlfriend" endures pales in comparison to the pain your wife is feeling right now. She is where your allegiance and sympathy should rest.

I truly hope you do the right thing. It takes a TRUCKLOAD of honor and integrity for you to forego the ILLUSION of happiness and love which the chemicals in your body are telling you can and will be found in "girlfriend". I assure you she is nothing more than an illusion. She is NOT your soulmate...you've already got one of those which God provided you on your wedding day. Warts and all...your wife is your soulmate. If you can try to look at your wife's side of this equeation...you've got some mighty big warts yourself that's she's apparently willing to work through with you. You are truly blessed to have such a wife.

Good luck

Mr. Wondering

mr. wondering - that hit the nail on the head...thank you - I know what I have to do and will do it - I am also aware that I am fortunate - my wife blossomed at the lowest part of our relationship - and for that I am thankful - I will show her, it will take time...but I will. Thanks again for your input -

drpepper

If your kids are in fact, the love of your life, you might consider being a real dad to them. I have spent well over 30 yrs in a family where divorces were rampant. My BIL's saw their kids on each appointed visitation, I watched them go white in the face when their kids called their stepfathers "Daddy". I watched how pained they were when
both "fathers" walked daughters down the aisle. I have heard my own son call his biological father the 'sperm donor" His words, not mine. These kid loved their step-dads and still do.

Truth is, your W will remarry and she will have a new family dynamic. YOU will have absolutely no say in how your kids live their daily lives. Oh, I'm sure out of courtesy, she will share their grades and illnesses with you, but face it, you cannot be a daddy in absentia. And this is what you are choosing. You will look at the Ho gal pal, (just the facts) as a mitigating reason for losing the family you once had.

Another Dad will teach them to swim, skate, dance, play ball
and you will die a little with each accomplishment. Because..you chose a ****** over them.

Look at the heartbreak of the Dads on this board who had a WW chose their destiny for them. One word would describe you
if you don't love and respect your children's mother and I'm sure you know what that is. Get your testosterone under control.

Get yourself in Church and quit living after the flesh. Learn what living is,.

Lots of "I wills" in there. Talk is cheap. The courage is in the action taken.

Like Yoda says: "There is no try...it's either do or not do"

So the ultimate question is: WHEN?

Why not TODAY?

The world is full of well-intentioned drug addicts that say they are gonna quit....maybe tomorrow.

It's the hardest thing you may ever do and you WILL someday look back at that moment with pride. It's tough doing what's right.

Mr. Wondering

DrPepper:

Amazing how supportive your W became, once all the facts were on the table, Huh?

I do not know how old you are.

I know how old your children are, so I will assume, that you are not past say, age 33. And your W is about the same age.

You have worked, built a life and have children.

But the M thing wasn't working out. Your W bickered and you didn't feel loved.

So, you checked out.

And once you made that decision, finding OW was pretty easy.

Because you opened yourself up to it.

And OW?

She gets the NEW, IMPROVED you. Not the one who met, courted and suffered all the growing pains that you and your W went through creating the life you wish to leave.

Because your alot better now, than you were back then.

How do I know this?

Because I HAD the OW for 4.5 years.

My W had checked out of the M, just like I had. She couldn't leave the M, because it wouldn't be right for our son.

I just found someone else and snunk around with her. You being very upfront about it.

Can you rebuild it with your W?

Sure.

I did. Do a search for my screen name and "curtains" in the subject line, and you can read my story about my discovery day.

My W and I worked LONG and HARD after that day to rebuild our M.

That was a little over two years ago.

We have a relationship now that NEVER existed before between us.

She changed, and learned about MB priniciples.

I changed, and learned about MB Principles.

And we built something great, just like Mr. Wondering did in pulling his W from the claws of OM.

We don't speak to you from a position on the sidelines, we speak to you from the position of "been there, Done that."

And I loved my son too. And I KNEW, no matter how good OW would make me feel, or treat me better, that I would lose the ability to have any real significance in his life, and would miss those great moments in his life that being a fulltime Dad would allow me to do.

I thank my lucky stars that OW called my W that day and busted me. My life is SO MUCH better than it used to be.

It's the right choice.

Your W can make the change as well.

LG

Dr. Pepper...

Just wanted you to know...I've been in a similar position to yours...I did not move out, but I did have an affair...I know all too well that chemically induced "I'm so in love" fantasy feeling that you have right now...But I've come out the other side and I KNOW...KNOW...KNOW that real love is so much more fulfilling...I absolutely can assure you that you can and will fall back in love with your wife, and when you do you will fall on your knees with gratefulness to her and to God...You will KNOW that you absolutely made the right decision and are in the right place...The feelings will awe you and will very much pale in comparison to what you feel right now...Doing good results in feeling good...FEELINGS FOLLOW ACTIONS...

I'm certain that you and OW have put a great deal of time into your affair...You've spent at least 15 hours per week together having intimate conversation, recreational companionship, showing affection and having sexual fulfillment...THOSE ARE THE THINGS YOU DO TO FALL IN LOVE AND STAY IN LOVE...DO THOSE WITH YOUR WIFE...The blessings bestowed upon you for doing that will blow you away...Not only will you BOTH be happy, but your children will be happy and will learn by your example...SUCCESS BEGETS SUCCESS...

Dump the OW today...Will you do that Dr. Pepper? I await your answer...

Mrs. W

drpepper, it may have been mentioned earlier, but you should know that 95% of affairs FAIL to ever make to the marriage state because they crumble. And you know what most affairs have in common? That feeling of overwhelming LOVE you feel for your mistress. Yet they all crumble. Of the 5% that actually make it to the marriage stage, 80% of those end in divorce.

Want to know why? Affairs are based on deceit and fraud. They are based on the absolute worst qualities a married partner can have. A successful marriage must have faithfulness,honesty and comittment; affair marriages have NONE of those.

Additionally, affair partners believe they are entitled to have an affair if they are not "happy" so rather than being commmitted to caring for your partner, you are commited to your FEELINGS. Feelings change daily. So your marriage would be contingent upon the feeling du jour with a person who has no respect for marriage vows in the first place. Easy come, easy go. We have several affairs on this board that happened in affair marriages.

Lets add to the list of problems your family members, her family members and your children. Your children will hate you for destroying their family. They will grow up and hate your OW, too. If your parents care for you at all, they won't allow you to darken their doorstep with a mistress. Many decent folks will not associate with an affair so you will have that to face.

And we haven't even begun to talk about the greatest tragedy of all: your children. Children are devastated by divorce. They are NEVER THE SAME. They will not recover from the damage you inflict on them in order to chase your selfish lusts. Do you realize that? You are sacrificing the happiness and security of your own beloved children for your own [very temporary] happiness.

Believe me, your happness is temporary. Your affair will crumble within 2 years but your children will be effected for their entire lives. you will never find happiness in being BAD. Affairs bring GRIEF and PAIN and REGRET and REMORSE; they don't bring happiness. That happiness is fleeting, the wreckage you bring will be around for YEARS. And YEARS.

You will view this some day as the GREATEST MISTAKE you ever made. Mark my WORD.

Mrs W and all - I have to say, I have been to multiple sessions with W and by myself - but this is far and away more effective - I appreciate everyone's commitment here - the pain is so real..and it is what keeps us all coming back to this forum - I am blessed to have your support - thank you.

I have explained to OW that I need to do this for my kids, my soul, and my wife that has tried so darn hard - I told her - what I think is the truth is that if I "broke away" from the family that I helped build that I would be a lesser man and feel as such...in turn, I would not be an ideal companion/partner for anyone...more importantly, I would not be able to live with myself -

its no coincidence that the booze intake has escalated - what am I running from? its time to pony up - "sacrifice" - as silly asw that sounds..because what am I sacrificing over the children and a happy home? but you know what I mean...

I talked to my wife and she agrees that we should pray...at least once a week - start going back to church - we're "bad catholics" in that we dont go to church like we used to...but we know we want to get back and we understand that it can help -

my saint name is St Sebastian....I better start living up to his legacy -

I guess I am glad that I didnt do anything in haste and that my wife showed what I knew she had at the onset - uncanny strength - we talked for hours tonight and she explaiend to me how hard it is - how violated she feels - all I could say was that it would take time for me to prove myself to her -

we will without a doubt be stronger than ever before...we, unlike alot of my peers, actually exposed the weaknesses...confronted them..addressed them..and are fixing them - I did not want to just "act out" the role of happy family...something was wrong.

I have a very strong interest to renew our vows and start living honorably - I am amazed at what it takes for growth..for personal development...why is it that pain precedes growth?

thanks again - I will be frequenting this site - im not to self centered to think you all still care so much - but I do appreciate your input and am hopeful that I will see more -

I will let you all know when we have moved (the 31st) to new house together - moreover, when my wife and I start living -

in the interim, keep the faith that you have - it is wonderful - please know that the input to date - albeit minimal has, at the least, saved lives in my little world.

warmest regards;

dr pepper -

What have you specifically done to insure NO CONTACT.

Early recovery can be invigorating. MANY couples throw themselves into it without taking the necessary steps to even BEGIN a real recovery.

First things first...extricate OW from your life completely.

a. A No Contact letter

b. Change phone numbers

c. Put a keylogger on your computer and allow your wife to set up the password

d. Delete or let wife set up passwords on ALL your email accounts (even the secret one).

f. Be accountable for ALL your time

g. Be completely honest with your wife...do NOT try to protect her from the truth.

h. IF OW finds a way to contact you...don't not appease her due to some notion of sympathy for her pain or to find out how she's coping....instead RUN AWAY or if it's an email or voicemail forward it to your wife UNREAD or UNLISTENED to and let her handle it (Don't delete it as your wife would be foolish to trust what you said the contact contained).

i. KEEP POSTING...allow us to be your accountability partners

Read up on Withdrawal. You will likely become physically ill in the coming days and weeks as your body PHYSICALLY withdraws from the endorphins OW stimulated in you. This will be your biggest challenge. Don't give in. OW will be OK. She's an adult and is quite capable of handling being dumped by a known married man with kids. NO MATTER WHAT SHE DOES OR SAYS (presuming she finds a way to contact you for so called "closure")...disengage immediately lest you be sucked back into the conumdrum.

Good luck,

Mr. Wondering

p.s.- will we be meeting your wife here someday???

Dr. Pepper...

How's it going? I don't like the long silence...that doesn't say "good" to me...use this place for accountability...Also, I'd recommend posting in GQII under the infidelity section...That place gets LOADS more traffic and you need as much advice as you can get, right?

We look forward to hearing from you and your wife...

Mrs. W