...and I just answered the phone finally because I didn't want to snub WW completely. It was nothing important (update on getting our microwave fixed). I remained pleasant but didn't prolong the discussion other than to ask how she was doing today.

HELP! stay indifferent (if possible)? Is that contrary to PlanA?

Guess there is not a lot of advice out there for me today.

On the plus side, I do not have to worry much about whether to avoid/180/act indifferent or to try to be loving, sympathetic and fun for long since she will lock herself up in her room to continue the A and her internet addiction as soon as DD is asleep. I can spend the time between I get home and DD's bedtime to soak up DD's love and affirm my unconditional love for her as I have been.

in gratitude for everyone's help thus far...
-JC

Plan B is always difficult with the WS in the same house. I don't have any advice other than talk with the Harleys to navigate these troubled waters.

Thanks Jim - I have been contemplating a call with the Harleys lately and it may be time to act on that, even though I've decided to stay in PlanA for now.

Apparently she booked a flight overseas to meet OM, but the plans are canceled because once she told him she bought plane tickets and made plans it was "bad timing" whatever that means.

New Pain, different day...

-JC

Call the Harleys. It's well worth the investment.

Call the Harleys.

She's living a fantasy. You may have to wait it out until some reality shines into it.

Thanks guys - I will call the Harleys <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

SD, you are exactly right, my WW especially has an escapism or fantasy addiction so I'm coping with trying to pull her back to reality (who wouldn't want to stay in a fantasy world?!) and waiting for reality to somehow intrude on her like sunlight coming through the cracks in a drawn curtain. It just feels like that may not happen until we're divorced.

-JC

OK, so I'm firmly back in PlanA after waffling a bit over the past week. I will forgive myself for backsliding and be thankful that I did not resort to LB's like AO and DJ, which I had a problem with pre-A.

I've been trying to focus my anger on the SITUATION and not on WW. She is in a fog and not herself. Reading other posts makes me realize that she must feel powerless to control what's going on.

Last night as WW was slinking back to her cave, retreating to spend the rest of the night on the Internet and emotionally with OM I said to her as she was walking away:

BS: "Good night. I love you"
WW: "What?"
BS (without pause while making coffee for the next day) "I said I love you"
WW: (silence, then resumed walking down the hall)

I also left a note on the dry erase board on our fridge that says, "i LOVE you [WW's first, middle and last name]

One thread I read suggested that we are working to pile stones in a lake - each little rock you throw seems to disappear below the surface and have no impact but eventually one of the stones you throw rests on all the others and breaks the surface. I can't expect the stones I throw to break the surface (of the fog) but hopefully one will eventually get through. Wish I could remember who drew that analogy because it has helped a lot.

-JC

Your story reminds me so much of my own. I see many of the same actions and certainly the fears I have been dealing with myself.

My WW also started an international online friendship that seemed to move into an EA with the potential for a PA. Now she says the EA is over and they are just friends. I have been unable to get her to agree to NC either and she is largely withdrawn from me.

I wish I had some advice but your situation is further along than my own and I haven't been very effective in dealing with it.

I do hope things work out for you though.

Thanks HILH,
I think it's difficult for us because an EA (especially overseas) is based largely in fantasy. Our WWs don't get to see the imperfections of their OM that they see in us each day. It seems like this creates an "idealized" notion of a relationship that isn't impacted by the daily grind of real life. Hang in there - it's still difficult but the "want to lie on the highway" days are spaced further and further apart.

I just hope my WW is somehow forced to give up the A since it doesn't seem like it will end before we are divorced. I know that she needs to end the A and grieve it before she will even consider me again. In the meantime it kills me to see her retreat into the spare bedroom at every opportunity.

How to confront her without LBing and while staying in PlanA? Her withdrawal has already impacted DD, who recoils from WW whenever we are both present (when I'm not there I think she's fine with attention from mom).

-JC

In my case, like yours IIRC, they made plans to meet during the "we're just friends" stage, he was to fly here. Since they won't stop contact I'm unsure of what is happening, I still have a keylogger installed which isn't showing anything inappropriate but they use Skype as well so they could have just gone verbal.

My kids are showing reactions too, esp. DD2, she has become very emotional and clings to me whenever she can. If my W raises her voice DD2 cowers.

spooky HILH,
I bought a KL and the day I went to install discovered she had passprotected and I haven't been able to do anything since then. I know contact continues because she admits it.

Why spooky? Because before the passprotection I discovered they were using Skype as well (which is all but impossible to block) and as you know, provides for very little evidence of what is being discussed (contact me if they are using skype chat because I have info for you). Also spooky because last week WW told me she "was a bad person" and had "bad thoughts" when i drew it out of her she said she wanted to "get away from it all" for awhile. I asked her get away from what? Since there is no place she can go to escape what we are going through.

She clarified that she wanted to go to England (where OM lives obviously), that she wanted to go for four days, that she wanted to leave on a thursday and come back on Monday, that she wanted to leave the 27th and come back the 31st and oh yeah, that she had already bought tickets.

I asked her if OM knew of her plans and she said, "no, I wasn't expecting to be allowed to" I told her that I don't control her actions but that I thought it was a hurtful and bad decision. She spoke to OM and came back to tell me that she wasn't going to go because "the timing isn't right" I still don't know what that means, exactly unless OM has some kind of conscious and doesn't want to meet until the D.

I left a note that night that said, "I love you and I want our marriage to work. Please don't fly to England to have sex with a stranger" She wrote back that "I already told you I am not going to England. We can talk tonight" (we never did and I'm curious but don't want to bring it up).

I've seen my DD cringe when WW raises her voice as well. I had anger management issues before all of this came up but I've virtually eliminated my AO over the past few months. I am VERY careful to speak with only soft, reassuring tone with DD (and WW) now.

-JC

SPOOKY INDEED! The OM was planning to arrive Dec 27th and stay until Jan 6th!

She said that even when there was 'some attraction' (which she claims is gone) she would NEVER have allowed anything physical to happen because she's not like that and would end the marriage the right way if it came down to it.

But how are we supposed to trust the one who hid an EA in the first place, unless they agree to NC. I guess we can't, so we have to protect ourselves and the kids from the WS's destructive behavior.

Creepy, and as I read your thread I realized that I haven't stated the mistakes I made that lead her to this place...you guessed it, anger and neglect - probably not that unusual for us men, who tend to sleepwalk through the relationship until woken by a splash of cold water to the face.

Are you sleeping in the same bed still? How is her withdrawn behavior typified? My guess is that there is still attraction if she is withdrawn. Funny thing about "ending the marriage the 'right way' quote - for years my wife always said, "if you ever cheat on me you better leave me first!" Ironically, I did not cheat on her, did not leave her and she chose to cheat and to do so without leaving me first. I'm sure she doesn't consider the EA to be actually cheating but we know differently, don't we?

Bingo on protecting ourselves! We can't trust them until they see for themselves what they're doing and want to change. In the meantime I try to foster the environment that she would want to live in - if she does eventually get the D finalized she will leave seeing the very best of me, NOT the worst.

-JC

That's something I need to focus on.

As for her behavior ... if I mention talking about our problems her hands go up and she backs away as if the very thought is uncomfortable or threatening. We can talk fine on the phone or on the computer. We still share a bed (most nights) and sometimes we touch but most often she stays on her side of the bed. We've had some hugs that felt warm but overall they're just 'friendly' even if we don't let go right away, and we don't kiss anymore unless its a quick peck on the cheek from me (she turns aside).

She says she's not sure if she wants to end anything, we have 10 years of history, she needs to 'fix' herself before she can start thinking about us.

~ HILH

Hope you are on a better path then. As soon as I confronted WW she took off her rings and moved into the spare bedroom, where I think she feels like she is "doing time" until the D is settled. I've gotten the head to the side thing as well - I find that a kiss on the forehead is hard for her to avoid and can be very tender without the awkwardness that she may feel.

On the plus side, she has been reaching out to me more lately. Calling me at work a few times a day and sending emails whereas she had gone completely dark on me during the day for the past few months. Is the ice melting? I doubt it but hopefully the stones are piling up under the surface <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

-JC

Sorry for responding to you over on Have_I_Lost_Her's thread, this is the appropriate place for you to receive a 2x4.

Yes, I've read your story. I had kept up with it when you first started posting and went back and read through it again. So here you sit some 60 days past D-Day and NOTHING has changed, because you have done NOTHING.

You claim you are in Plan A, but there is no evidence of that. You took her laptop and then gave it back. You have not disconnected the internet service, and you continue to ALLOW her to disrespect you by flaunting her A right in front of you, with you in the house and with the knowledge that you KNOW what she's doing.

You claim to have self-respect, but as a BH, I sure don't see how you can have any with the way your allowing yourself to be treated.

Have you guys read all that you can on Plan A?

It's about more than being tender and nice. Even a tender kiss on the forehead could be a love-buster for her because it's not what she wants. That kiss is one of Your emotional needs--wanting to feel close to her. She's in love with someone else (or at least she thinks she is).

There's a great post around here somewhere on the Dos and Don't of Plan A. Figure out Her emotional needs and how you can start meeting them better (if she'll let you--if she doesn't, don't force it). Put your needs on the shelf.

It took me a long time to figure this stuff out. Let me know if you haven't seen the dos and don'ts post, and I'll dig it out for you. It's probably in Bob's toolkit.

I'd like to see that SD if you have time.

LOL. Thanks RB - appreciate receiving the 2x4 where it belongs.

I took the modem, she bought another.

I took her laptop and she went to friends' houses.

If I take her laptop again she will buy another now that she has a job.

If I cut the cable (or sabotage it) she will have it repaired while I am at work.

If I manage to cut all internet access at my house there is still starbucks and her affair phone and computer access at her friends' houses.

Sooo, instead of swinging the 2x4 wildly and battering my already bruised ego, how about some (valid) suggestions? That is, after all, why I am here along with the need to just get my story out.

SD, understood and point taken on my EN vs. hers. I haven't been reaching out to her physically but I know that the EA, as satisfying as it may be in her mind, cannot be complete without physical touch and she's said that she doesn't mind my touch so I guess I feel this reinforces to her that I am physically here in addition to being emotionally present and I don't reach out physically too often so as not to appear clingy.

I've read HNHN, SAA and LB. I've also read the do's and don'ts of plan a and plan b thread (several times) but a refresher is always helpful so please post the link if you can find it for HILH, myself and others who may read this thread. Sometimes it's the 50th time that you read something that it finally sinks in.

-JC