OK ... here's a suggestion ... and I'm dead serious.

You get a haircut, put on your best clothes, some good cologne, stand up straight, and in your very best calm but serious tone, tell her:

"I Love You, and will do whatever is necessary to recover from this A and save our family, but I simply cannot allow you to continue disrespecting me as you have by keeping in contact with the OM in front of me in our home.

If you insist on continuing with this behavior, you leave me no choice but to file for divorce and seek sole custody of our daughter to prevent you from exposing her to your affair partner."

... and then you walk away. You don't argue ... you don't waver ... you don't threaten ... you do what is necessary to protect yourself and your daughter.

Then at the first sign of her keeping in contact with the OM while in your home, you have her served with Plan D papers, and tell her that is not what you want, but at this point for you to stop divorce proceedings, you now insist on NO CONTACT for life. You see the conditions for you remaining in the M gets ramped up with further deceit and disrespect.

She has jerked you around for going on 90 days now and its way past time for you to stand up for yourself and your daughter by reclaiming your self-respect, and hopefully the respect of your WW.

I should also state that I have worked on myself and all but eliminated the DJ, AO and other, IB and SD which were my problem areas. My friends and family have recognized the changes in me and have welcomed back the "old" me that they once knew.

I've lost 50lbs (much of it due to the A diet but even after I started eating again I now eat less and better and am working out at least 5 days a week)

I have overcome my social anxiety and now am much happier and more confident dealing with others. I left much of the social responsibilities (calling the repair guy, etc) to my much more social wife, which was unfair to her and hurt me ultimately.

I learned how much I neglected my DD as much as my WW. DD accepts my love and I don't EVER miss an opportunity to spend time with her and bask in her perfection. I now can say to WW that she is withdrawing from me AND from DD whereas I used to see DD as a third party to the sitch.

-jc

Which plan is it you're suggesting there, MyRevelation?

From Jennifer Harley-Chalmers: "You will feel like a doormat in Plan A."

JC:

Do you have your own computer set up at your home? If not, I recommend you get one, and set up your network so that no one can log on without your permission.

I would give her two choices: log on to your computer (with blocking software), or give you admin rights to her computer, and then you set hers up the same way.

My S once complained about me looking at our joint cell account, and said she was going to get her own cell phone. I replied, when you do, pick a new place to live, because I am not going backwards in regard to shared financial responsibilities. She eventually calmed down, still has the same phone, and is still at home.

Not saying that things still aren't icy, but nothing good between you can happen while an OP is around.

Finally, have you contacted OP yet?

I'm no good at posting links, but I found the post over at the top of the Just Found Out board. If you haven't read all of that stuff (from WAT and Longhorn and MrWondering), do so asap. Here is one of MrW's posts:

Well, today I thought I'd add my "Do's and Don'ts of Plan A List". This list I carried around with me from early into my wife's affair and then well into recovery. I referred to it from time to time to keep myself grounded in how I wanted to behave. A big part of Plan A is being the best person, spouse and parent (if applicable) that you can be despite the circumstances around you. My basic premise that enabled me to survive day to day was "Act, Don't React" (i.e. - "ACT" like the person I wanted to be without any love busters and do not allow myself to simply "React" to the harshness of the reality I foung myself in at the moment). Using this basic premise, I was able to weather the roller coaster of infidelity and eventually restore my marriage.

There are many emotional strains on the wayward spouse but their primary problem/issue is the OP (Other Person). If "No Contact" has not yet been established they will behave with a single minded intention to get their "fix" of the OP. If you threaten their ability to obtain such fix depending on the length of time between fixes, the quality of the recent fix and the security of such fix you will be met with resistance in varying degrees. No doubt about it, your efforts WILL be resisted but how they do it is a crap-shoot. They may yell, threaten or otherwise blatantly attempt to manipulate you with fear, anger, intimidation or whatever OR be more caniving and attempt to appease you with lies, more deceipt and covert manipulation. Either way they are not really LISTENING to you...you are their secondary concern. Understanding that is essential.

Conversly, the things you do that do not interfere with their addiction will be strongly encouraged and reinforced or perhaps simply ignored. Again, it's manipulation. They will be nice to you, have sex with you, spend time with you IF you allow them to continue having their affair...unabated. The policy of appeasement does not work. You can't simply be a doormat no matter how comfortable your wayward MAY attempt to make you feel.

So in the end you are left feeling powerless and beat up. Which in all essence you are. It's THEIR addiction you have little influence over. Only the addict can decide for themselves when to releive themselves of their addiction. They will do so IF YOU behave according to the solid, well tested, professionally advised Marrigage Builders principles. You, of course, must practice both the "CARROT AND THE STICK of Plan A (see link in my signature line below) to attempt to bust up the affair. But much of the STICK does not involve your day to day interactions with your "FOGGED OUT" wayward spouse. My do's and don't list is how you manage your spouse while you do the rest of Plan A.

Some days your spouse will be kind to you and other days hostile. As you ATTEMPT to pull closer to them and reestablish intimacy they will no doubt respond by pulling away for fear of you interrupting their affair OR, if the affair is over, for fear of leading you on. If you pull away from them the Waywards may often pull you closer for fear of losing you, for fear of losing their options as they cake eat/ride the fence of indecision. However, if you pull away to hard you may run a huge risk that you will merely reinforce and legitimize their built up rationalizations and justifications. It's simply the roller coaster of infidelity and the more you recognize it for what it is the more POWER you have to control YOURSELF as you both progress through this mess.

The wayward emotional pull back is to be EXPECTED. Waywards almost always do this. They take a step towards you and you respond appreciatively...you acquire Hope and push for more, more, more. You hunger for HOPE and they fear it. WS's don't feel worthy of it and are holding on to so much of the rationalizations and justifications that they can't see straight YET...even if they HAVE recommitted to the relationship and gone to "NO CONTACT". They fear hurting you further, hurting their family further. They fear you are placing much more significance on each step forward than you should cause they legitimately and quite necessarily DON'T FEEL IT...YET. So they slap you down and retreat. They may even defend/insulate themselves from you by calling you NEEDY AND UNATTRACTIVE to get you to back off. Hence, the step backwards.

When you detach from the rollercoaster and allow him/her to proceed at his/her desired speed you can hopefully minimize the steps back. When YOU internalize and beleive yourself to be the obvious choice, acquire patience and the confidence that he/she would be a fool not to recomitt to you, then you become the confident, unpressing, spouse that swept them off their feet so many years ago. He/she can more easily recommit to the person they saw back at the beginnig of your relationship than they can to the devastated spouse they see before them now.

You are behooved to for the most part just let it go for now, OP's soon to be or IS out of the picture...this is just you and your spouse now. Try to date them (alone time without KIDS is KEY...family time is NOT as effective). Movie dates suck cause you can't talk but those are the kind of dates you want now. Consider loud restaurants, clubs and bars. Activity based dates where you are not seated facing each other forced to have that “serious talk”. But if they won't date you go out yourself and either have fun or feign fun. They will eventually get suspicious or feel the need to take a break themselves and hopefully follow along.

In conclusion, you only control you. The more you understand the dynamics of infidelity the more prepared you will be to anticipate it and combat it. Your spouse, as expected is behaving like an idiot right now and "idiocy" will likely be the forecast for some time. YOU must be the leader of your family and the leader of your marriage and despite the crap you are putting up with BE the best person you can be....simply, ACT, DON'T REACT.

Good luck,

Mr. Wondering

OK...the list of Do's and Don'ts.

Do's
1. Act Happy
2. Get a life (new activities, etc.)
3. repeat over and over..."I will make it"
4. Actively LISTEN....keep conversations at "to the point...small talk" ...don't blow it up beyond the waywards current comfort zone
5. Tend to Agree (Thank you for your truthfulness, It seems that way, you have a point)
6. Expand your social relationships (Being especially aware of your own vulnerability and keeping sharing and time with opposite sex relationships to an absolute minimum)
7. Get sexy (gym, new clothes, etc)
8. Focus on your strengths and Positives...don't put yourself down verbally or constantly go over what you did wrong
9. Accept Uncertainty (Do your best today and let God take care of tommorrow)

DON'Ts

1. Repeatedly say "I love you"
2. Ask questions that don't have answers yet
3. Criticize, complain, whine or nag
4. Say, "I've changed"....allow the wayward spouse to simply judge your actions
5. Argue, Reason or Plead
6. Don't get family or friends overly involved in recovery (notice I said "in recovery", EXPOSURE to bust up an active affair IS ESSENTIAL and EXPOSURE to the OP's spouse is an absolute MUST)
7. Act helpless or depressed
8. Discuss morality, invoke God or Dr. Laura type babble
9. Suggest marital counseling (must be the waywards idea)
10. Tell them continually "we need to work on the relationship"
11. GIVE UP

*sorry the above is a little choppy...I combined several similiar posts to compile this one.

Don't have time to read everyone's responses right now but THANK YOU to all (MR too <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I will say that I did get a haircut, also wear my "good" clothes until she retreats for the night instead of changing into sweats as soon as I get home and oh yeah, she's already served me with papers so the threat part won't work too well. I like the rest of what you say, however.

-jc

From my understanding this is straight out of the "Stick" portion of Plan A ... you are establishing a boundary. If JustCoz's WW won't quit disrespecting him, then he will proceed with Plan D.

I guess I missed where she had already filed for D, but it doesn't matter. He can pick up the case and start driving the D bus from now on. She will either respect him in their own home or there is no M to R anyway.

In that case, his main responsibility switches to his daughter and protecting her from her mother's poor choices and behaviors, but somewhere he is going to have to draw a line in the dirt.

I would suggest making the continuattion of the affair as big of a hassle as possible. If she leaves the house every day to continue her affair, document how you are the only one home taking care of the children for custody.

It doesn't sound like Plan A to me. It sounds like Plan D.

I couldn't agree more. One thing I've learned here at MB is that you can usually stop the A, but when reviewing the aftermath, not all M's are worth saving and not all WW's are worth having.

Thanks again all <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

OnMyWay, We each have our own computers. I tried blocking software but there is no way to block some of the programs she uses to communicate with OM. She has also had a second phone line installed in our house and an internet account in her name which she pays for. I've not contacted OP yet as I was advised by people on this board to find out WHO he is first. Unfortunately, I've tried all of the avenues I can think of and have come up empty handed. I've considered contacting him anyway (I have his IM address) but I'm not sure what to say to be most effective.

I believe OM has tried to break off the relationship at least twice when I posted in my profile that WW was leaving me for OM. WW admitted that she convinced him that is not the case and he has stayed but without knowing why he wanted to stop the A it's hard to know what to say to make a positive impact.

SD, Thanks for finding and reposting that - I've read it many times and now I have it in my own thread so I don't have to search for it <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Reading through this again I am comfortable that I am doing my best Plan A. I've always wondered about the specifics of the first "don't" How much is repeatedly saying I love you? I try to be careful to not say it too often so as not to "smother" WW but I do not want to stop altogether so that she can know that I am not "accepting" the situation and that I still love her and want our marriage to work. Perhaps I'll start another thread to ask people their opinions.

I am not convinced that Plan D is my best bet since this is what WW thinks she wants right now - I fear it would be less of a threat that would make her consider the consequences of her actions and would instead give her the impression that I have accepted the situation. That said, I have made it clear to my lawyer that I want to make divorce as unattractive an option as possible for WW. If she wants to leave me for a life of fantasy I do not want to support her withdrawal from society.

DEFINITELY not all WW's are worth having and not all M are worth saving. I've done that soul searching and looked at it from many angles. I know that there was much more good than bad in our R and that DD is best served by my doing anything I can to save our M.

-JC

Sorry JustCoz, but until you get some self-respect and a PLAN ... (doing the same thing over and over that hasn't worked so far, but expecting different results is NOT A PLAN ... its self-dellusion) ... we're not going to be of much help for you other than being a place for you to vent your frustrations.

Do you really not see here that NO ONE is supporting your decisions???

Thanks Jim - I have begun documenting the withdrawal and all the times I now am left taking care of DD, even when she doesn't leave the house.

It's sad that she has almost completely withdrawn from reality. She admitted yesterday that she hasn't been grocery shopping in a solid month. Clean dishes remain in the dishwasher this morning from the load I ran three days ago and the sink is piled high. It's like she literally does NOTHING all day, every day but chat and surf the Web.
-JC

I'm sorry that you don't seem to agree with my decision to stay in Plan A, Revelation. I believe I am doing the best Plan A I can but am always open to suggestions on how to improve.

Yes, I have been plan A'ing for three months with no obvious results yet. I hope that I am piling stones, allowing my WW to SEE the changes I've made and when it comes time for PlanB or for the D to be finalized she may be in for some harsh realities.

I certainly see that YOU are not supporting my decisions but I do not see much in the way of helpful advice coming from you.

-JC

Since our situations are a bit similar I hope you don't mind me piggybacking your thread.

The talk of plans has me wondering ... can plan B work in the same house? I saw it mentioned somewhere and am searching for it now but I'd like to get fresh input.

nvm ~ found it, recommended sticking to plan A <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

hmm ... strikethrough didn't work

The "piling stones" analogy is good when used in the proper context. However, you are corrupting the analogy to support your INACTION, while HOPING for better results.

Too bad that you don't recognize the advice you have been given ... I advised you to set up some boundaries to preserve your self-respect ... but that would have required you to confront your WW, and we now know you won't do that.

Anyway, one thing I've noticed here is that some posters just don't "click" or can relate to each other and that seems to be the case between you and I, so I'll bow out of your thread and let you proceed at your own pace.

Absolutely, HILH - hoping we can learn from each other's situations. I was wondering about PlanB in the same house since PlanB MAY be effective for my sitch but I've decided to stick out PlanA for now and see where I am in the New Year, allowing myself to plan out and explore the options of PlanB when that becomes necessary.

-JC

Sorry, I wasn't clear. I support what you're doing, JC.

My comment was that what Revelation recommended sounded more like Plan D than Plan A, or at least if you were going to follow it, you might as well opt for Plan D.

I can't remember--have you consulted with the Harleys for the specifics on your situation?

Thanks again, SD. I am committed to PlanA for now and am always thankful for thoughts/suggestions/reaction to making it the best PlanA I can accomplish. I had a problem with AO and DJ for a couple of years (I realize now it was the result of an overstressed job and subconscious reaction to not having my EN met). WW needs to know that that person is gone forever before plan B or D are implemented.

I'm seeing an IC and advised her that I am following this plan. She agrees with the basic philosophy but I still intend to call the Harleys after the holidays to get another perspective from the folks who know the system best. Haven't called them yet.

Thanks as always,
-JC