Okay, for now lets just assume he is in an affair. He is certainly acting like it. Until you get proof, drop it from your discussions with other people.



Okay, so you have removed all love busting behavior, right? This is a huge part of Plan A. So all is good there.

How are right now in taking care of yourself looks wise? Are you presenting as attractive picture as possible to him? Is your home clean and good smelling?

When he calls, are you light and happy sounding? Cutting the calls a little short to pique his curiosity?

Don't call him at work anymore, unless it is an emergency. Let him call you.

Are you taking the kids out for fun activities, and nonchalantly inviting him along? And not getting angry or pouting when he says no?

No, I'm going to try and find those, I'd love to read about it. Where can I look for those threads???

I agree. But when you tell him no in the future, do it something like this "I would love to have SF with you more than anything, but I feel it keeps me too attached to you and I really miss you afterwards, so for my own protection, I can't anymore. And I am worried about STD's because we are separated and I can't be sure if it is safe".

The love busters (angry outbursts and D/J's) are going to be very, VERT noticible for him, both if you do them (BIG MINUS) and if you don't (BIG PLUS). So what ever you have to do, GET CONTROL of these.

do a search on ARK and on "lighthouse", or call her out and ask her. Ask LOTS of questions...ARK loves lots of questions from Plan A-er's. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Yes, all love busting behavior has been removed. Yesterday, when I was at his apartment, I had to keep my mouth shut when I saw all the new crap he bought on credit, and that he can't afford. I smiled and commented on his good taste and didn't mention anything how I knew he couldn't afford it. That is not something I would of done before, I would've asked him "are you sure you can afford? how are you gonna pay for all this? are you going to make me pay for this?" I haven't gotten angry ONCE. He commented on how cool and calm I have been through all this.

I'm taking care of my looks, I've always taken pride in looking attractive. I've lost 15 pounds in 2 weeks and I look pretty good. The few times he came home, the house was spotless, but I don't know if I should let him in the house or not since he is living on his own now... that's still a dilemma of mine. My folks have been watching me like a hawk because they are scared S will try to take advantage of me and don't want to let him inside the house.

When I call, I'm always in a good mood. Everything is always great. Not cutting the calls short though... that's something I have to work on.

Decided this morning that I'm not calling or emailing him at work, unless it is in fact an emergency.

I have taken the kids out for activities, and am not sure I should ask him to join. I haven't yet (so no chance to pout or be angry). For instance, Halloween next week. I don,t know whether to ask him or not. I don't want to put false hopes for the kids in case all fails.

By take advantage of you, do you mean taking stuff or coming in and kicking you out, or what?

On Halloween, when the subject comes up, just lightly say "you are more than welcome to join us" and then move on. Don't put him in a yes or no situation. And don't do it in front of the kids. If he shows up, let it be a surprise to them so they don't get hurt if he doesn't.

I'm pretty sure he'll show up if I ask him for Halloween. He loves to spend "fun" time with the kids. It's the "unfun" time he doesn't like to spend like homework, bathing, that kind of thing.

By taking advantage I mean, they think he's going to try to manipulate me into giving him things in the house. Things that I paid for, saying "look how used that thing is, I wouldn't mind having it, that way you can buy a new one". Or trying to get me into lending him money.

I was an enabler with his compulsive spending for years, always digging him out of debt when he went over his head.
I had put away some money for OUR retirement, and he told me he would go into that money to pay for his new stuff.

Anyways, my parents are scared he's going to try to manipulate me to get money.

Does your state recognize common law marriages?

Have you secured your finances already?

My finances are secure. The only thing he can touch is the money I put under his name for the retirement fund which is about 10k. He's allowed to touch that unfortunately.

I'm not in the states, but where I am common law marriages are not recognized, except when you file your tax return.. Only the kids from the common law marriage are recognized. So, if separation became permanent, and he would get PT custody, then I would have to pay CS (because my income is 5 times his income). If I get FT custody, he has to pay CS. He's not allowed to request spousal support.

He has always refused to pay for "rent" which I thought was ok, because the house was under my name. He never paid for any house bills because it was "my" house. Only thing he put money in was for retirement, and I helped with that. I thought I was doing a good thing, didn't think it would come back and haunt me.

My mother told me yesterday that I was an irresponsable fool for putting money into our retirement funds under his name. Knowing what I know now, she's right, but to me putting this money aside was a committement for the future.

Marriage is a commitment. It's apparent you were committed, but has he ever been truly committed?

Was it his idea to not get legally married?

Would you categorize him as a buyer, renter or freeloader?

These questions are important for you to answer for your sake, and for any future decisions you make regarding reconciliation.

It was my idea to not get legally married, for my own protection. Where I am, prenup agreements aren't something considered legal. If you marry, everything you acquire during your marriage has to be split 50/50. I knew early on in our relationship that even though I knew I was committed, I could never be sure 100% he was (you never REALLY know the other person's intentions). Since, it was obvious, my income would always be very superior to his and that I would lose A LOT if he were to decide to divorce me, I mostly decided that it wasn't a good idea to marry. After all, I was protecting myself financially. Also, his parents had the same kind of spending habits he did, and have racked up huge amounts of debt over the years. Being married meant that I was responsible for my inlaws debts also.

So, he was fully aware why I was reticent to marriage and he fully agreed. We did discuss getting married a few years ago, but wanted to wait until we were in our forties, and that are incomes had balanced out a bit.

Although I know my situation is not unique (woman who is the financial support in the relationship), it's not all that common... which makes it difficult to discuss with most people I know.

Ok, so those are the reasons why we never legalized the committement... it was for my own protection.

I THOUGHT he was a buyer, but now I wonder if he lies between a renter and a freeloader. His parents and siblings qualify as freeloaders.

You would have been responsible for the inlaws debts as well? Wow. Okay, it makes more sense to me now. Thank you for explaining.

I wonder if he felt low self esteem, and it hurt that you are more financially succesful than he. No matter, because that is not an excuse. Don't fall for that. I did with my ex. His self-esteem was low and if only I signed over this one piece of property he would feel better about himself and know I loved him. blah, blah, blah.

Anyway, back to you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Morally, yes; legally, I don't think so.

Morally, yes, during the time they were living, legally, yes from the time they were deceased (they never had life insurance).

If you were not sure of his intentions enough to stop worrying about finances...you should NEVER have had children with him.

Well it's too late to not have children now... they are there and I adore them. I could not imagine my life without them.

If i had chosen a different spouse, I would not of had the same children, obviously. Out of everything I did, those children are one of the only RIGHT things I ever did. They have a mixture of what is good about me and what is good about their father (because their father has great qualities, which are why I fell in love with him in the first place).

BTW, how can you be 100% positively, absolutely sure about anyone's true intentions? If you do know a way, I'd be happy to know about it.

I am 100% positive about my new H's intentions. First time ever, and one of the reasons I said yes when he proposed. And he felt the same about me, one of the reasons he proposed to me.

I had no reasons not to believe this. No signs of irresposibility, no anxiousness on my part, no not following through on his part.

10 years from now, I may get proven wrong, but today I am absolutely, totally positive of his commitment to me and our marriage.

Keep doing your Plan A. That is the best thing you can do for now. I would not however let my parents dictate to me who I let into my house. This is your marriage, not theirs.

You already know not to give him money, or give him anything you do not want to give him. You are not a child. You can make good decisions.

Thanks for all the help yesterday. I went back and read on plans A and B last night in SAA. Although it is a bit helpful, I have difficulty applying plan A in my case because

1) I cannot confirm A from spouse
2) He has moved out and has completely closed me off.

He emailed me yesterday afternoon, he can never not talk to me for a long time... he never had the need to email me be4 this all happened. Suddenly, I'm getting 10 emails a day from him, which I always answer, succintly, in a very friendly manner, weighing every word I type in those posts. The first subject he emailed me about were financial issues and the second subject was about some construction materials that we had bought and had delivered 1 week before he announced he was leaving. He offered to sell them for me. He also mentionned "helping me" return a TV set to the store that's still under manufacturer guarantee (it's too heavy and cumbersome for me). So I thought all was pretty good in plan A land.


I tried to be cute in my emails back to him, never saying much, adding smilies, LOLs, just so he knew I was in good spirits.

Last night, he called after DS1's karate class (grand-dad went with him). I let DS answer the phone. After a short chit chat with DS, he asks to talk to me. I told DS to say I was busy because I had to put him to bed. He INSISTED on talking to me. So I finally took the phone and explained to him that it was 8:30PM and I had to put DS to bed.

He said: "oh I just wanna know if you still need help with the TV". I said "sure" hoping that he would offer to come with me to the store and exchange it.

He said:"here's what I can do for you, if you pack it up, I can put it in the car for you, and you can bring it to the store while I spend the day with the kids". I was fuming! But kept my cool and said, "well... let me think about it and I,ll get back to you on that". Thank god he wasn't in front of me because he would've seen the fury in my eyes. I was FURIOUS!

So, later in the evening, I send him an email telling him that I was flattered by the offer, but someone else offered to come to the store with me (which was TRUE)... it was easier for me that way.

His reply was "when can I see the kids then?". I said, you know, I'd prefer to discuss this kind of thing during MC and not on email or by phone... it's easier to do it face to face.

Then he answered "now i'm freaking paranoid!"

Geez... he's not letting me in one little bit. Not a smidgen. This plan A stuff is tough. TOUGH! How can you remain calm, focused and cool when your ex-spouse is acting like a selfish freak???

why can't he see his kids? Is there a reason he is being denied access and that it has to be discussed during MC?

I agree with you about his offer.

My point about kids NOT having kids with someone that you had those feelings about was...
you too extraordinary precautions to protect your finances from a man that you were not sure about...but failed to do so when it came to kids. Why do you think that is?

oh yeah, and it freaks him out even more that I'm being nice, he thinks I'm trying to manipulate him! it's not manipulation, it's me trying to CHANGE to better myself. I don't want to be that angry judgemental person anymore. I want that person out of me... I'm realizing that being angry is just as bad for the people around me as it is for myself. I feel better when I'm not angry and when I can channel my frustration otherwise than being a b!tch to my spouse. I hope he understands that someday... right now he doesn't.