So, what about the possible affair that he might have had? Are you sure he is 100% truthful? Are you going to continue with the PI?

There is no affair. I've been checking up on him... the woman that I thought he was having an affair with, well, she's out of the picture. She told him he was a scumbag for leaving me, and that was the end of that. He told her some not so nice words, and they haven't spoken in over 2 weeks.

S came clean with me yesterday. He told me what he was hiding. I wasn't surprised to find out that it was debt. 30k of debt. Bought all sorts of things. Turns out it what I suspected, he's a compulsive spender.

As far as my parents are concerned. My mother called me this morning, bawling. Supposedly, they are physically sick because they think I'm out of my mind because I want to try and get back with S. They think my children are going to suffer greatly from our coming back together. Guess what? My mother is a psychologist by profession. She sure isn't behaving like one.

Tomorrow, I have an IC appointment to help me deal with my verbally abusive parents.... I hope it helps.

well, that explains a lot!..... your mom really is sick...and I mean that in a clinical sense. It is up to you to stop these conversations from ever happening. NEVER engage her in a discussion about your marriage again....never. Cut it off 100% or you will live to regret it. Look at your mom as a cancer to your marriage(an accurate description I think). How do they deal with cancer....they cut it out.

Good luck tomorrow. Make sure you are seeing someone that your mother doesn't know.

You do notice that it's all "he said, she said" right? IF they are having an affair, do you think they are going to be honest with you?

He has admitted the debt, that's true and he told you that knowing that you will probably forgive him for it. IF he is having an affair and tell you that, he knew that you will probably not forgive him. Don't you think there is a possibility of both debts and affair?

I seriously doubt the affair. I think he was thinking that he would get me out of the picture and then find someone else though. He said he had started looking at online dating websites around the time he left. I don't have any reason at this point to think he's being dishonest with me.

Seeing how my mother has been behaving, I'm now convinced that she's one of the main problems in our relationship.

I called my SIL tonight (my brother's long time GF) and she told me that she had a HUGE fight with my mom 2 years ago. She said, she heard stuff come from her mouth that was horrifying about her. She cried for 2 months, and completely detached from my mother. She said to me "I don't have a MIL, my kids have a grandmother". She was horrified to find out what my mother has said to me... She said "you've got to do something about it" No kidding.

Regarding your first statement: Is he the HONEST type of husband who always come clean with his wife about everything even if it upset her? If the answer is "yes," he is probably being honest again this time. If the answer is "no," something very fishy is going on. Sometimes, guys just like to test the water to see how their wives would react. One post, who didn't suspect her husband was cheating at all, said that her husband told her "someone at work was spreading rumor that I was involved with this female co-worker and that I would leave you, how crazy is that." And, weeks later, he left her.

Your statement number 2: Some women, especially betrayed spouses, are very easy to lie to. They got cheated again and again and sometimes for years or decades and never knew anything about it. Could you be one of them and not know about it?

Mbm69...stop worrying about the maybe affair for right now...go with your gut, it is usually right. Be vigilant and look into anything peculiar...but right now, you have a big fish to fry with mommy and daddy.
Don't ignore affairs signs...but don't fabricate them either. If he is having an affair, it needs to be dealt with immediately...but I have serious doubts about that he is involved in one at this time.
If you have good reason to believe that an affair has occurred....which I don't think exists...confront him with your evidence and look for inconsistencies in his answers. If the doubts still remain, ask him if he would be willing to submit to a polygraph to prove the veracity of his story. Watch for his response....it will tell you a lot. Now...if he has done nothing to warrant this, he might be ticked off...use your judgement....you know him best.

MEDC

S has always been honest, but sometimes will hide the truth from me for a while. I know him, when he comes clean, he comes clean on all fronts. That's what he did this weekend. I know OW, that I thought might be the object of an affair is out of the picture now.

I agree with you MEDC, I think my main problem is indeed getting mommy and daddy out of the picture. If I asked him to pass a polygraph, he would say it's not necessary, but I know he would accept. He wouldn't freak out or anything.

Best advisor, you bring up a good point about statement no2. I have a tendency to be very trusting of people in general. But really, even my super duper paranoid parents (and I mean they are extremely paranoid) said STOP looking for an affair, there is none.

Truth is, I'm the one who was "adulterous" with my EA/crush, mainly to get attention. Attention that I was desperately craving.

remember that as much as you recognize the need for change in your life, you will need to be doubly vigilant to make sure that the issues that cause you stress with your mom and dad do not become a part of your own personality...they helped shape you and in as much, helped shape your view of men, parenting and the world. You will truly need to "rise above your raising" in order to have a happy life, be a good parent and wife. You have that ability....use it.

MEDC - you are one blunt person, but you get the point accross. I have to tell you that everything you told me has sunk in, and you are becoming a big influence of my actions... maybe it's because the actions were what I was thinking all along.

IC went well. Counselor (which is the same counselor we saw for MC... oddly enough, even though I don't agree with her marriage counseling, she knows the story, didn't want to repeat everything with someone else... besides I have MB for counseling now AND Jennifer) told me that I had to cut ties with my parents. It's obvious, according to her, that my relationship with them is pathlogical. Now I have to believe that it is, because a third party (who is educated in the field) told me so. I still needed some convincing.

I'm confronting my parents tonight. And I'm hanging up the phone before they can criticize me. I'm done being criticized and ridiculed for my choices.

I was telling the therapist that I have to choose between my spouse and my parents. She said "no, you are choosing yourself... stop the destructive process now!"

I'm scared but I have to do it. I asked S to be here so that he can help me be strong and hang up the phone and not answer when they try to call.

blunt...yes, I am that!

good for your progress.


hang tough! this will all work out.

OMG. I just told my mother that I needed to do Halloween my own way (ie with S, the kids and me) and she totally freaked out. She said that I was out of her life forever. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

I've started reading the book toxic parents. Ok, so I realize both my parents have used every trick controlling parents use AND they are verbally abusive in the process. So I know that, I just still don't know how to handle it. I feel like a teenager that just pi$$ed off her parents.

S was VERY proud of me though. We had discussed this issue many times before but I was always too afraid to make my parents mad or sad. After all, they are my parents and I love them! But, like my counselor said, they have totally destroyed my self confidence... especially in the last few weeks. S was very supportive and said we would get through this together. He's talking about moving back in now.

I had my apointment with Jennifer tonight and we talked alot about love busters and how to specifically control them. I need to read the book in depth... I have soooooo much reading to do, and things to apply. One of my friends was commenting that it was like "extreme makeover" but of one's life. I think it was high time some introspection was made.

Next apointment with Jennifer, S is going to attend. He accepted <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> He's been reading his needs her needs, now he needs to get on the basic concepts.

you need to turn the tables....YOU are the parent...you are in control....you don't have to handle them...they need to bend to your way to have admission to your life.

It really is as simple as that. Your mom is a typical emotional blackmailer...typical. The real power struggle is now...she has been used to getting her won way for so long that she feels that she will need to turn up the drama to get you to bend to her will. In dog training it is called break through behavior.....GIVING INTO HER EVEN ONE INCH WILL BE A MISTAKE THAT WILL COST YOU COUNTLESS NUMBERS OF HOURS TRYING TO REPAIR. Stand your ground at every turn.

My ex's mom is like this. Well, when she crossed me one too many times, she went a full year before she saw or spoke to her grandchild again...and guess what, my son fully supported it. He said no one...no one gets to talk to his dad in a disrespectful fashion. Do you think things with her have changed? Yep. Why? Because she realized the games she used to play no longer had any power over me. I am in control of each and every decision that impacts my life and the life of my son.

I think I suggested the book by Susan Forward...Emotional Blackmail...if not, buy it. You won't even have to open the book to see your mom...some of her favorite quotes will be right there on the cover.

How many times does your mom threaten? I bet lots.
How many times does she suggest you are ungrateful for everything they have done for you?
She knows best?
Etc, etc, etc. It's a broken record. Tune it out and don't take any more crapp from her.

Yes you did suggest it and I ordered it, and YES I just saw the phrases on the cover and I was floored... yup, that's my mom!

The toxic parents book is by the same author. I started reading that one first since it was specific for dealing with parents. There are different categories of toxic parents. My parents (particularly my mom) fall under 2 categories: controllers and verbal abusers. I recognized the behaviors my mom has pulled on me over the years. My story is very very similar to the stories the author used. Actually, change the names and the professions and they are the same stories practically



Yes, to all of the above. And I agree with what you said, she has gotten more verbally abusive as she realized that she wasn't getting me to do what she wanted.

And, I was always very calm... I told her that I didn't appreciate being told that I was stupid, especially in front of the children. I told her many many times... and she just rams back into me. I know she THINKS I'm making a mistake trying to mend this relationship. But I think it's the thing I have to do, for my kids yes, but mostly for myself.

However, I still feel really guilty about what I did. But I know it's normal, it's part of their hold over me, to make me feel guilty. That's what has always made me turn around in the past. But I have to get past this now.

I know that my mom is going to use my brothers now to "try and knock some sense into me" (a technique often used by controling parents). So, I called my younger brother and warned him that this was going to happen and asked him if he could please try and not get involved. He told me "please try and not be mean". I don't think I was mean. I'm not the mean one, my mom is.

Thanks for telling me your story. So your ex-MIL was like that huh? It must've been terrible for you. I have realized only in the last few weeks how controlling my parents truly are and the are MY parents, I cannot even begin to imagine how S has felt over the years. I understand what you mean when you said that I owed him a HUGE apology.

with my ex MIL it was a bit tough at first...but I don't have the personality that allows that to happen to me without a response. I believe you should always be nice...until it is time to not be nice.
Once I realized that no person could make me do anything that I truly felt was wrong/didn't want to do/didn't think was right...I took over my life. I have had disrespectful bosses in the past be shocked when I would tell them off.. A MIL that was shocked that i actually followed through on my promise to remove me and her grandson from her life for continued bad behavior...
Look, we teach people how to treat us. It is not disrespectful to stand up for yourself. Your call to your brother was good....but next time...don't suggest that he "try" to not get involved...let him know that while you love him, you will not accept his involvement in the matter unless you ask for his input. This is between you and your husband...and between you and your mom. Involving a brother that also bends to will of his mommy is not welcome. I would suggest that you develop an adult type relationship with your siblings that exists outside of your mom/dad. Send him a copy of Emotional Blackmail...it will help him see the damage that is being caused by your mother. Although it is not required since you are capable of doing all of this on your own (with your new partner husband!)...it would be nice if the children of these controlling people presented a united front.
Another suggestion is to talk to your IC about having your mom/dad come in. While I am almost 100% certain that they will refuse to do so...because deep down inside your mom knows she is wrong...it might be worth a shot.

Either way, stay the course. It will be tough at times...but a lot tougher if you veer off course.

They would NEVER EVER accept that. But it is worth a try. I have to call back my counselor today, she wanted to know how things went. I really like her in IC. She is very directive and coaches more than she listens and doesn't always say "how does that make you feel". I spent 2 months in therapy this summer for anxiety issues (and now I see everything is related... the work anxiety I was living was not work related, but life related) and all the therapist was asking me was "how does that make you feel". That kind of pi$$es me off.

Yeah, it will be tougher if I veer off course, you are right, because I'm going to have to start all over again.

mb

you are entering treacherous waters and need to tread very very lightly,,,

you must stop very very soon and take a breath and step back....

and try to see the bigger picture of what you goals are here...

goal one to reunite with your spouse
goal two to engage in a loving respectful relationship with your parents with good boundaries in place where applicable...

here's the pitfall you have in front of you...

it is way way to easy to villify your parents...and use that villification of them as a tool to bond with husband....

this is a great divergence from his actions, behaviors, and choices be it affair,...debt whatever.....this is a great opportunity to lay lots of blame on your parents laps...and then he can hide behind the drama of that.,

Also I would suggest you seek if you are religious ...religious counsel on how to deal with and hopefully reach a not perfect relationship with your parents but one that brings you some peace and satisfaction...

in all their flaws..I don't think your parents are bad evil people..I think they are flawed and lost like all of us...and perhaps made and make more of the general mistakes.....

I am encoraging you to seek great humility in this endeavor

be wary of counselors who are willing and wanting to spend gobs and gobs of time digging up examples...

be wary of your own thoughts and lables in calling them despicable...and other words...

a parent telling a spouse to be to break up with their child is pathetic at best...and will only be as big as a deal equal to the amount of energy you and he give it...

in other words you could go on for days and days lamenting what [email]a@@es[/email] they are for saying such a thing...OR you can roll your eyes...have a good chuckle...and say to one another....what else would you expect...and GO ON with life...

you need to realize that in setting boundaries your parents will do as all do when boundaried first appear and escalate bad behaviors...normal normal normal

also you must see your role in this..you say they controlled you ...yet you allowed and participated all along....giving consent to things that will now tell them are control things...very very confusing to them.

seek love
seek humility...
choose your battles thoughtfully and carefully
be wary of parent bashings sessiosn with your spouse and counselor...those are the fodder divergence..
and solve nothing...

some things can not be fixed...and their is no point on dwelling on them...that is where and why boundaries work...
they are a plan for offensive behavior...but only used as needed...not a complete mindset


ARK^^

I will agree with Ark on a limited basis....you can have a good relationship with them...and that can be your goal...but only if they respect your boundaries.

be willing to call things by their true name...but be willing to recognize and reward change.

I seek out fellowship and counsel quite often in my church...you need to use your judgement with this though as some....many religious leaders are enablers for bad behaviors....need I say anything more than "Catholic priests." As many here know, I deal with these people all the time and wouldn't seek out the advice of most religious leaders...most, not all... for matters like this.

This is run of the mill IC stuff that is seen every single day in that setting. The solutions are tough....but not difficult and don't need to be clouded by anyone telling you to be laugh off the abusive remarks that are cast your way. Deal with this now and you will save yourself a lot of trouble down the road.

Ark, I can totally understand what you are trying to say.

I am trying to set my boundaries. And I also take part responsibility in the control my parents have had over me. But certainly not all of it.

I don't want to say that my relationship with my parents is the only reason why we have to work at recovery. I think it's much more multifaceted than that. But my parents control is a love buster right now as Jennifer told me. So obviously I am working at it. She also told me it is normal for my parents to react strongly to what is happening.

I'm not going to call them back. To do so will only give them the opportunity to insult me again without me placing a word... and then crying out of guilt saying I was sorry for being such a bad girl. Or, even saying what a despicable person my mother is. My mother just pushes my buttons. More than any other person I know. Instead, I've written a letter to my parents, that I sent to my spouse for approval. This was Jennifer's suggestion.

In it, I don't explain what I'm trying to do, only that I'm learning things about myself and that I'm trying to deal with things without anger. Forgive me for not picking up the phone because I need to remove myself from things that will bring about anger. I will come back to you when I can tell you what I need. I tell them I know how much they love me and that I understand that their reaction is purely out of love. etc, etc...

I sent the letter to S this morning. He said he would look it over when he had some time.

mb

I am not telling you not to set boundaries with your parents...

I am encouraging you to not let your parents become a hysterical bonding issue between you and your husband...and appear as a false recovery....as they become the 'reasons' for everyones actions in this marriage....

I am encouraging you to not give your parents silly words and actions more power than they have...

you should be and become immune to their antics...not reactive...as in that's awful..thats horrendous...can you believe he did this...or she did that...
drama
drama
drama

and when in high emotional crisis...as you were/are in with the marriage....this may appear to be

THE SOLUTION
THE REASON
THE FIX
get rid of your parents on a united front...equals a fixed married...

My statement is be wary
seek humility...

seek big picture.....

what is your goal...is it to totally remove them..then do so ...and be done..without your husband...just do it...

Is it to allow them some access in your life...
then set the boundaries and consistantly act them out...

watch out for long drawn out therapeutic focus on them...
it will drag you down and drown you in minutia...

you know what is tolerable and acceptable...

act from there

ark