So I have a decent relationship with my ex; we have been divorced 6 years, and are civil blah blah blah. She is remarried, and seems to be happy. 99% of the time all is well, no drama - just how I like it.

Today the kids (10 and 13) were chatting with me in the car, saying that "Mommy says that the divorce was a good thing for all, everyone is happier, you didn't use to joke as much as you do now", etc. Whoopee.

Here is my dilemma - I like the peace and quiet, and have never tried to badmouth her to the kids. Even the few times they relayed nonsense like "mommy says you got a divorce because you did not like to kiss too much" (forgetting the part that she was boinking a coworker, a detail she no doubt left out), I usually brush it off with a comment along the lines of "well, there are many parts to the whole thing, it's quite complicated". Kids seem content with that.

I always feel like it's a no win trap if I start to discuss the divorce with the kids, and obviously disagree with her views. Because if I start saying "Oh, well, *I* don't think everyone is better off in the divorce, I wanted to make it work, blah blah", it feels like I am a) trying to convince the kids that they or I are not happy (which is not the case), or b) appearing to be bitter, not moved on, etc etc. IOW, if she says "everyone is happy" and I say "well, we would have been better off as a family", it just seems like she has moved and I have not. Make any sense?

So I guess I wonder how I can disagree with some of her "divorce was a great way to make everyone happy" statement, without dragging the kids through all the details, and making them feel bad for having missed out on what I consider to be the better approach of an intact family, single household, etc etc... Because I don't really want her polluting their brains with the concept that marriage is indeed just a piece of paper, and divorce is a great way to "solve problems". Blach.

Any thoughts?

AGG

Wow. I've had almost the same dilemma recently. Although I know my youngest has some issues with transitioning back and forth between houses. They have never come out and said what the ex has said, although I know he feels the same as your ex. We have a civil relationship, sit with each other at games, etc.

I've said things like "I am sorry our family is not all together anymore" or "divorce is not a good thing, is it? Please remember that. We're all trying to make the best of it, though" - when they seem to have some sadness (missing their dad when they are with me). These things come out fairly infrequently though.

I'll be interested in others' thoughts as well...

My stbxw has done nothing but lie and I have been denied contact with SS.

She told him that I abandoned them, but it's now much quieter around the house so that's a good thing.

I believe he knows exactly what happened because he was the one who showed me her phone whrn OM called.

I hear similar cr*p coming from ex's mouth. I don't have time now but will give this some thought a come back later.

The thing is this - I agree that everyone (the ex, the kids, and me) are "happy" these days. Kids are pretty well adjusted, she is remarried, I am very happy, etc etc. I don't sit here and brood over the "loss". In fact, I do think that I am happier than I would have been if I were still with her, especially the "new" her that I had to live with when she became the psychoslut.

But that does not change my opinion that we could have been better off working on the marriage, instead of her cutting the cord without as much as telling me she wasn't happy. But of course, I cannot prove that, because no one can prove a "what if".

More importantly, I want to convey the message that I do not believe in divorce as a panacea, that commitments should be taken seriously, that kids should not grow up with "two houses", etc etc - but again, it sounds like I am whining and bitter or unhappy if I start saying this, ya know?

One glib line I have in my mind is something like "It is true that we are all happy, but it is despite the divorce, not because of it". Of course, while it has a nice ring to it and certainly applies to me and probably the kids, I am sure that she'd come back and claim that she in fact is happy precisely because of the divorce, which may well be true for her.

At the same time, I hate having her share just her side of the story with them, without giving them mine - but I want to avoid getting into a "he said she said", as I don't want to start subjecting the kids to that. Yet right now she gets the benefit of blabbering to them almost unchecked, and that annoys me. To be fair, it's not like she sits there and tells them "Daddy this, daddy that", I think she just drops little tidbits here and there, simply sharing her thoughts - perhaps I can start doing the same, without having the "big chat" with them, so as to minimize the importance or drama of it?

AGG

I suppose if they were older I could simply show them this ... funny about the timing of this showing up today on CNN <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

AGG

I am going to allow SS to receive the truth when he is old enough.

I have a package of all the evidence waiting, including the recording of her blaming him for ratting her out with the phone call.


Have solid evidence ready when you expose the truth to them.

Oh, I have ample evidence, including her own postings here admitting to her affair, while we were suposedly "working" on the marriage. I might, MIGHT, share that with them when they are much older; but not sure I ever will until/unless they specifically ask me.

I am more interested at this point in how to handle these little tidbits about "we are all so happy, the divorce was obviously no harm no foul" gibberish, because I don't want my kids growing up thinking that divorce solves all problems and makes everyone happy, as my ex apparently believes.

AGG

whereas everyone might appear happier at the moment, that does not mean that everyone, you or kids included, that does not mean that there were not permanent losses. . .

there were economic losses, which does not make everyone happier,

and so the lessons to be learned are that marriage is a very important decision, and one not to take lightly, or without learning what makes you really happy from the start. .

Wiftty,

Yeah, I think you are on to something... This sounds like a reasonable starting point - just because we are happy these days, does not mean that there was no loss in the process.

Like you said, there is the economic loss, the loss of the idea of the "family" vacations, the loss of the "family" home, the loss of the idea of visiting our grandkids together, etc etc.

I know the big difference between me and my ex is that to her, the important thing is to be "happy", no matter what it takes. I, OTOH, often become happy from knowing that I am doing the "right thing", be it honoring my commitments, being a good parent, etc. So we speak different languages (no wonder we are divorced).

I guess what I am trying to find is a way convey my thoughts to the kids (that divorce is a loss, even if we all manage to dust ourselves off and move on) without making it an argument between me and her (especially via the kids) or without implying that we need to wallow in self pity.

I am concerned that if I start telling the kids all this stuff about loss, they might get upset without really being able to understand fully - I always thought this would be a better chat for when they're older. Then again, the longer I wait, the more they might get used to this idea of divorce being the great problem solver....

I guess I'd like to hear from those who maybe had this chat, how they handled it, and how it went down...

AGG

so would i AGG... my son is only seven and my WW has already fed all kinds of stuff to the kids

my stepdaughter is 14 and she has not only met but has gotten to know two of the three yahoos that boinked her mother outside of marriage

really feel sorry for her too and i'm doing my best to shelter my son from it

/highjack over lol

Hi AGG,

I'm praying for a little wisdom... cause ?'s from kids tend to leave the humble among us feeling incapable of the depth required. Their hearts are so tender... impressionable... and seeking to touch ours... and draw from them something they can safely "have and hold".

Reminds me of a promise: to have and to hold from this day forward.

Hmmm.

The children, imo, are asking if they matter... or if you are happier now that they are "gone"...

That's my "gut feeling"... first thought... not sure how "right" it is.

I think the children are asking for affirmation... an affirmation, that, imo, divorce takes away from them: their identity, value, and importance.... in a way.

What to say to such innocents?

How could a person be "happy" to divorce their family? And when there are children involved... 2 people don't divorce each other, imo. 2 people divorce their family unit... which means their children are divorced from an intact family.

The term "homewrecker" comes to mind.

Who was "happy" to have their children's home wrecked? How could anyone be "happy" with the outcome of innocent children having their home and intact family taken away from them?

Are the children "happy" that their mom and dad are no longer married? Unless you were a brute beast - a person cruel and abusive who they felt threatened by (which certainly does not sound the case).... no, the children aren't "relieved" or "happy" that their parents got divorced.

Their home was destroyed by someone placing their own wants and needs above the best interest of others... including those children.

Apparently, someone divorced "A Good Guy"... for the sake of getting boinked... from what you say.

I still don't know how to answer those children... other, perhaps, than to say, "My dear _____... (looking each in the eyes...) my life is dedicated to your happiness."

If it is true what you say... that you have their best interest at heart... maybe you can "sidestep" the whole divorce matter and voice to them your unchanging love, devotion, and commitment to their well being... not having placed lust above their own best interest in maintaining a nuclear family.

You didn't selfishly have an affair because you thought your own emotional wants and needs were of greater importance than your own children's best interest.

I don't really know what to say. I pray you gain the wisdom to answer whatever the true cry of those hearts are... as they wonder why everyone else's happiness makes it "okay" to wreck their stability and security in an intact nuclear family.

The "fog"... is so desperately wicked... it obscures the true character of a mother's love.. in devotion to her own children's father... sometimes. What to do or say... I can't say. I hope you find greater wisdom by which to answer than I have to give.

Blessings

p.s. I consistently did tell my children that I was dedicated to their best interest.

And I lived it.

My children know what it is to lay down one's life in love for others... and have received same from me.

They have honored me on Fathers Day... saying I am both their mother and father.

My children know I love them.

I've never needed to counter anything, really... I just speak for myself.

So... to continue to affirm them and to affirm a mother's love for her children (yes, you're a dad - but same principle applies)... has resulted in my children being made whole in relationship with me.

I've never had to speak a word against their father... nor have I practiced same.

These people's actions are larger than life and speak for themselves. Children are not stupid. When a parent consistently affirms a child and speaks for themself in affirmation of that child... that child knows that he/she knows that he/she knows... who loves them.

And they learn what true love is... from the one who truly loves them in a way that sacrifices self.

Just a note cause I saw you asked for a practical example of what someone has done that helped the children, set the right example, and gave them an accurate picture of what real devotion to children and family is.

It doesn't need to be done "in concert" with an "ex"... or in opposition to an "ex's statements".

Just speaking for one's self and setting that single example in practice where words and deeds, life and actions... all line up... show them the truth plainly... in my experience.

cya

A lot of good thoughts here, thank you. I should add that these days, 6 years after the divorce, the kids are indeed well adjusted and happy, so I no longer feel the guilt of having to explain to them why mommy and daddy won't be living in the same house with them (even though it was not my choice). That was a difficult time, but we are well past that, and they are quite happy.

And that is the dilemma - since they are happy, why should I try to convince them that their lives are incomplete or damaged because they no longer have a functional family? That would be like opening old wounds that have healed by now, I see no sense in that.

Yet the flipside, the approach of saying "see, everyone is so happy now, the divorce must have been a great solution" (which I think is basically their mom's message to them) is also wrong - as I said, we/they are happy not because of the divorce (well, maybe my ex is), but in spite of it.

They know they are very loved by both of us, so I am not worried about their self-esteem or self-worth. I do worry that they will grow up thinking that "hey, our parents divorced and everyone ended up being happy, so it's no big deal". How do I explain to them just how much they have/will miss out in their lives, like "normal" family activities, "normal" holidays, "normal" grandparents visiting their kids, "normal" family tree, etc etc, without making them feel like losers?

AGG

Hi AGG,

Hmmmmm... i think they know how much they have/will miss out on... and their mother's statement is mindblowing. It only reveals her own selfishness... which they will contemplate on. She was speaking for herself... saying, "I am happier now"...

She can try to put words in your mouth and theirs all she wants... attempting to speak globally for all parties.

The bottom-line is, and history will show as they review it... she said what she thinks by herself.

That's all I see... and they either do or will see it without any further talking through, thus traipsing through, her bull. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

No need to plod through to analyze a pile of bull for a pile of bull to be clearly evident to be a pile of bull.

GB

she makes a good point AGG

there is no need to stoop to her level and respond

love your children and in the end they will come to their own conclusions

actions speak so much louder than words

the long lasting effects of divorce shows up when the children try to make long term relationships in the adult years. . .

you will not know about the effects for another 10-15 years

I believe that you are right - that me continuing to focus on the kids, without getting into the mud of "he said she said" is the best gift I can give them - which I have done for six years already. And the kids are happy and well adjusted, so I must be doing something right.

GB, your observation is right on, that the kids will pick up one day that their mom speaks for herself when she says "we" are all happy. And indeed, she is an incredibly selfish person behind the gregarious facade (amazing how typical that seems to be). My kids are pretty darn smart, I do think that one day they'll put two and two together <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

Thanks for the thoughts!

AGG

Agreed. FWIW, I think I am pretty good at making lemonade out of lemons - as I go through my dating these days, I find that I am able to explain to kids why I decide not to pursue some of the relationships, and I think it helps them understand the importance of choosing wisely when it's their turn. In fact, when I told my daughter about the lady I am currently dating, her first question was not "is she pretty?", but "is she similar to you?", which I thought was quite perceptive of her <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

AGG

oh no!! you're not dating a fellow "stick in the mud" are you?

oh no no no!

snickers
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

mlhb