Thanks, Meremortal, great advice...I'm going to try it, especially the first person of the day chat... it makes sense.

I guess I get angry every time I realize it's ALL about him and it's been that way for a long time. I've got to get a handle on my emotions! I read through Mr Wondering's "for newly BS" thread and I'm going to read through that a few times a day for now. I've definitely got to focus some more on myself rather than obsessing on how to "fix "things...

Thanks again everyone....lovin' this forum...don't know what I would do w/o it <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

a setback... Yesterday, I found a letter FWH wrote to OW a few weeks ago(it was written while he was away on business and he never actually gave it to her). It talked about how amazing she was, how she made him feel "alive", and how he was going to try to get over her since he was so sorry to be causing her so much confusion (she has been having problems with her fiance...obviously he was trying to win her and she had told him she was confused?)

I was so repulsed. Crying, I confronted H with the letter. He told me he didn't feel any of those things anymore and he doesn't know why he wrote it. I said something along the lines of "I don't even know who you are, how could you believe you felt so much for someone you hardly know?"...and we kept our distance most of the day.

Last night, we finally talked about OW/EA, etc, and we tried to end our talk on a good note, talking about lighter things...but I feel like the closeness we felt for the few days when he got home a week ago is gone(during the time that I was doing my best to meet all his EN's and we weren't talking at all about OW or EA).

I want to do things right...reading through the Plan A articles and posts again trying to keep on track. I think it would be a good idea to save EA/OW talk only for when we are in counseling. Any advice or words of encouragement welcome. thanks

bitterpill,

Because affairs work the same way on the brain as drug addictions....the first few weeks/months tend to be rocky and there are occasional setbacks. What your husband doesn't understand is that everytime he falters....you guys have to start over. Like any drug....when you give in to it....you extend the withdrawal period. On top of that....he hurts you again and destroys more of you love for him.

There are many people here who have had multiple d-days, and it hurts the odds of reaching recovery.

Okay....that's the bad news.

Here's the good news: Many people have false recovery/setback early on....and then buckle down and get it right. I want to really encourage you to give the Harley's a call. Most marriage counselors don't have the slightest idea how to treat infidelity....because fighting infidelity is counter-intuitive and that's why this stuff works.

As far as the R-talks....you need to have them....but be careful about the timing. For right now....you have to remember that it's easy in a "betrayed" state....to show the worst parts of your personality instead of your best. Obviously, it's pretty dang hard to look good and remain calm when somebody is ripping your heart out your chest....but your husband needs to see your marriage as a more attractive than pretending he's single.

While affairs can seem really exciting....the bonds that hold them together are easily broken. Marriage isn't always that exciting....but the bonds are awesome. Remember to play to your strengths. His life with you is the one where he has respect, love, children, history.

If your husband has anymore contact with this woman....here's what you do. You expose this affair to everybody. His mommy and daddy. Your folks. His siblings. Your pastor. His JOB. Affairs can't survive the light of day. If he's a respectable man....he won't be able to maintain this double life when all the people he wants to respect him know about it. Don't threaten. Don't warn him. But if you find anymore evidence of contact....you do the scorched earth exposure. This will be MOST effective if you simultaneously stop lovebusting and getting emotional.

I know this is hard chere. I'm sorry. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

((((((((((((((((((tbp)))))))))))))))))))

Thanks Starfish! You are so right and its what I needed to hear~none of this will be effective if I keep LB'ing and getting emotional. I've since gotten control of myself and things have been really good.

As far as exposure...I did expose the first day I found out, and his parents were so outraged, they called him about 100 times that day. He was so ashamed...he told OW he wanted NC on his own the first day. Exposure REALLY does work! He went into work and told his supervisor about EA and that he couldn't work with OW ever again when I asked him to do so.

Something new though...just found out work friends are throwing a going-away party for H (it's his last week). None of the work friends know about EA (except supervisor who I doubt will say anything to anyone).

Notice of the party is posted at work, and I am really concerned OW will show. What do I do? I already told H I am going, to let people know that, and hoping if she knows I'll be there, she wouldn't show but who knows? What else can I do?

bump....anyone got any advice for re the work party in which OW may show up? more details above...

TBP:

Go to the party, ON YOUR HUSBANDS Arm.

If OW wants to attend/Create a scene, she can.

But YOU are on HIS ARM. YOU ARE HIS WIFE.

If he is leaving the compnay, and you are there, than you can keep on eye on him.

If OW comes up to you, WH, or someone else, Smile sweetly. And then give her the STARE.

She will leave you alone.

If she decides to announce in the middle of the party: "I was sleeping with Mr TBP and now he's gone back to his W! See how horrible Mr. TBP is!"

Who do you think will get sympathy? OW or YOU?

I mean, what ELSE could she do? Pour a drink on MrTBP?
And if your WH is embarrassed, well, he just has to put on the GRIN as well. And bear it.

Let us know how it goes.

LG

Thanks, LG. You're right...

On another note, H is acting confused again, saying he isn't in withdrawal and doesn't think he needs AD or IC anymore...hoping the feelings will fade since OW is engaged and not willing to leave her fiance anyway. And I'm trying not to react but I'm growing weary of this... I'm thinking of calling the Harleys.

TPB:

Go the the party. Supporting your spouse is never a bad idea.

Not sure how to say this, but be prepared for the long haul. Your emotions are going to give you one heck of a roller coaster ride, and your WS has his own to deal with.

Found out H has been lying to me about NC. As I posted above, he has gotten another job and is leaving next week but promised me in the meantime 1) they weren't scheduled together and 2) that he told his manager about EA and NC promise and that she assured him they wouldn't be scheduled together.... Found out both promises were LIES.

I got suspicious when WH was frantically looking for box of contacts last night...doesn't wear them all the time but was a red flag to me that he was concerned about looking good this weekend... Called in and asked for OW. She was THERE.

When WH called from work, I asked if OW was working three times. WH said no. I told him I knew OW was working and he finally admitted it and said he didn't know she would be working and didn't want to hurt me.

The only thing I asked for was NC and no lying. I am so frustrated. please tell me what to do...

TBH:

Until they are not working together, there will be contact. And the A continues.

Since he has gotten another job, it will get a little easier.

An A can continue, even with them seperated.

You need to plan A your butt off.

And ride the roller coaster with eyes open and your hands firmly on the bar.

I see a REALLY big Drop ahead.

LG

bp,

LG is right. Until they no longer work together....even casual contact will keep setting you back. In the meantime, I'd definitely give her fiance a call....if you're getting lied to....he probably is too.

Thanks, guys, for your responses... I had already taken action before I had read them. I told him he was continuing to put our marriage at danger by being in contact with her and that this is NOT ok with me and I hung up. He called me back and he isn't going back in. The only reason I think this worked is because I have had a good Plan A in place the last two weeks...

I am sooooo mad at all the lies he told me over the last two weeks, I swear my head is spinning...

When is that party? Is it cancelled? I don't think your husband should want to make you endure that stress. He SHOULD voluntarily agree not to go. Why not hook up with a couple of his good friend co-workers for dinner at a nuetral location? Might yet be too much to expect from a still fogged out enabled wayward....sigh. My guess is you'll only succeed here if you make it HIS IDEA. Endure...only if you must with your best Plan A smile on.

As far as that letter you found. It is good information for you to have as it is visable tangible proof to you that your husband was out of his mind when he was in his affair. That letter was obviously not him. I remember back in 2005 listening to recorded phone conversations my wife had and after hearing a few I KNEW that the affair was just bullcrap. I actually GAINED confidence by hearing it. Imagine this. OW was his crack dealer. She passes out the crack and his letter to her was written solely to induce her to give him the really good crack and a lot of it. That's all it represented. It was all lies and NOT a true representation of anything real. The words were NOT an indication of any true feelings he had for her but an effort to solicit, steal, and obtain fake feelings from her so HE could feel great about himself.

Marital love is bigger than that. He doesn't and likely didn't ever write letters to you like that because it's not him. It's what he thought SHE wanted. It's not the way he ordinarily and in his right mind expresses his feelings...is it???.

Don't allow stuff like that to get you down. Flip it and take in the information to build yourself up. YOU are better than OW in every way. You are not a thief stealing his love or attempting to manipulate love from him. You are his rightful wife...his soulmate...his lover who understands love is earned and endures even through tremendous hardship and testing. Don't snap. Have patience and endure. Act...don't react. Look around you and try to enjoy YOUR life...because whether you like it today or not...it's happening.

No matter what happens be proud of yourself for standing up to his improper and immoral behavior but sticking by him just the same for this time to see if just maybe he can pull his head from his adulterous butt.

You will make it.

Mr. Wondering

MrWondering, wow, what a wonderful reply...actually, got me a little choked up....It's what I needed to hear to help me get over this second betrayal.

As far as the party, I should have updated my thread to say that our MC told him that he shouldn't go and he agreed on his own so he didn't attend.

Last night we talked...and he profusely apologized and said he is committed to saving our marriage. I let him know I want to work on it too but there is no more room for betrayal or contact w/OW(which I realize now looking back is the reason for waffling in the last two weeks)

I know that's not part of Plan A but I just know my limitations...

bp,

Can you two get away for a few days in the next couple weeks. Maybe take a road trip over Thanksgiving?

I suggest you order His Needs/Her Needs on CD. The audio version will give you the opportunity to listen to the book together in the car. The beginning of the tapes really cover much of the Surviving An Affair" information and it gives you a plan for recovery.

The car is the best place to have this conversation with a man. He's cornered but doesn't feel trapped (you've got to drive there anyway so it just feels like passing time). You also don't have to make eye contact when talking.

My wife and I did this a couple months after D-day. He may not be ready yet so if not...do this at Christmas time.

Good luck...and keep checking up on him. No Contact can sometimes be difficult. Those pesky waywards always think they need "closure" when all they really want and need is just one more hit of the crackpipe.

Reread a withdrawal thread. Find my post regarding a link to "31 Reasons to Stop an Affair" and print it off. Leave it laying around for him to pick up and read.

Have patience....but persistently protect yourself (and him) from breaking no contact. He actually needs your help. Be his accountability partner...not his policeman.

Mr. Wondering

Since I last posted, things have been good all things considered. Through MC, found out H is very PA which was a big part of the puzzle. We agreed to lay all our cards out on the table, wipe the slate clean and NO MORE LIES.

Well, came across some info, followed up on it, and found out yesterday that at the same time H was having the EA two months ago, he had also kissed a girl at a bar while he was away on business. He swears he feels nothing for her and that they have had NC(she lives several states away).

I had been suspicious since there was a unknown phone number on his cell records one night while he was away, three calls around 7pm, three around 1am, and three TMs around 3am. He had a explanation for all that, and stupid me, I had believed him.

I am nervous since I didn't insist he have STD testing since I thought it was ONE girl, ONE EA. I don't know what the H*** to believe any more.

I know he was in a "midlife crisis" at the time he did these things. I know he is committed to the marriage now. BUT I am concerned that he has such a large capacity to lie. I am concerned that when I confronted him about these lies yesterday, he threatened to leave rather than tell the truth. I am concerned about so many things.

Any advice or thoughts are welcome and appreciated...thanks for listening...

-----
BS(me), 32
WH, 25
two children, married 10 years
EA, dday 10/15

My husband reacted the same way as yours when I confronted him about more lies. He was very upset and threated to leave as well.

I felt there was more to his story. Things didn't add up. I asked him to take a polygraph test to prove to me that there was nothing more to hide, no more lies. He was so mad. He said things that were hurtful and defensive. He said he'd rather get a divorce than to be put through a polygraph test. He said he hated them because he had to take one for a job once and "he will never do that again". "I" was the one with the problem. Lack of forgiveness, etc., etc., etc.

That attitude of his lasted for a few days. But I wasn't coming up off my boundary of the polygraph. It was that or the highway for me. And, I was scared that he would leave. But that was o.k., I knew where I stood and had no trouble with my boundary. A few days later, he decided he would rather come clean than to divorce. It took the polygraph to "force" him to come clean. He says he probably never would have done it on his own and is now grateful that I demanded more for our marriage. His confessions killed me, but they freed him. It also freed me to make my own decisions based on reality and not more lies.

If he tells you he was "only trying to protect you", it's a load of crap. He is only trying to protect himself.

My polygraph cost us $300. It was WORTH EVERY PENNY. It was worth my sanity. My gut told me something wasn't right, and it wasn't.

Before the polygraph, my H confessed to only one affair. Because of the polygraph, I found out about the rest of the stuff in my sig line. We never would have had the chance for an intimate loving relationship with all of his secrets hidden.

I think you husband is hiding a lot more than he has already told you. Maybe not as much as my H of course, but I honestly feel like he's hiding the worst of it because of his reactions.

JMO.

I'm so sorry you are where you are. I know how excruciating it is to feel what you're feeling.

If he exposes more betrayals, the betrayals will hurt to hear about, but the lying is gonna kill you. Our marriage is hanging on my a thin thread because now, I have a hard time believing ANYTHING he says.

Now I look for his actions to tell me the truth. That's what you'll have to rely on as well. If your husband doesn't take a polygraph willingly, you have trouble coming.

Mopey,

My goodness, your post was so right on in so many ways. After reading and re-reading it, I knew I was justified in pushing to find out the whole truth and not accept half-truths that didn't make a lot of sense.

My confidence in this shined through and I think my H knew I was dead serious.

We talked it out fully in MC and after a lot of kicking and screaming, H finally let it all out. Explanations that had a beginning, middle and end with details that made sense. Not just the kiss but everything. Yes, it hurt but I finally feel like we are on the right path....

H said it was killing him to keep the secrets and now he feels so relieved...I think the burden of those secrets was making him withdrawn and creating a situation where it was hard for us to progress.

Oh, also after everything I asked him about taking a polygraph(bluff) and he said w/o hesitation he would do it.

Mopey, **thank you, thank you, thank you** for taking the time to reply.

I can't say enough about the kind folks at this board who take the time to listen and write replies with a profound insight that I just wouldn't be able to get anywhere else...

ThisBitterPill,

You are so welcome. This board was/is a God send to me as well. I have learned so much here. Mostly confidence in myself.

I am very glad your H came clean. I am so sorry though about the lies. Your H, like mine, probably doesn't like conflict. I believe that's true for most WSs. However, do you and your H know that conflict creates intimacy too? Something you might want to mention to him.

A word of caution.....it might be in your best interest to do the polygraph anyway. It took my H almost a few weeks or more to confess everything. Your situation may be totally different. I'm just saying......

Also, unfortunately, my H lied to me AGAIN, after the polygraph about some very important details regarding his fling before our wedding that I didn't think to ask during the polygraph. So, you can see why I don't believe just about anything he says now.

It'll take some time to trust him again. But, he's trying. I'll stick around awhile longer and see what happens.

Hi everyone...been a while since I posted. Thanks again to everyone who has taken the time to respond and actually looking for a little more help.

FWH is actually posting here now, and someone pointed out to him that he needs to be careful with all his interactions with women in the future.

This is something that I have been thinking a lot about because FWH is very engaging and friendly and charismatic...maybe what you would call a "social butterfly". (maybe it is in the genes because his mother and sister are exactly the same).

In fact, as I look back, there have been instances where either myself or other people have noticed that he seemed to be too friendly or flirty when talking to women at parties, the mall, etc, to which my FWH's response has been, that's crazy...we were just talking!

I have tried to talk to FWH about this issue some more, what boundaries mean to him...his response is a little wishy-washy...along the lines of "I think as long as we are meeting each other's needs, we'll be fine...but yes, I'll watch my boundaries"

I think this boundaries issue is a slippery slope (especially since FWH works with mostly women!) and I was wondering if anyone has any advice, guidelines, etc that I can pass along to my FWH.

Thanks so much in advance.
----
Me, BW, 32
FWH, 35
DD, 12
DS, 5
EA w/coworker, 2 mos
dday 10/15/07
followed the advice of this board and now we are in recovery!