*** comment deleted by StillSame to stay away from conflict with schoolbus ****

TBP,

Please be advised that StillSame is a troll and has attempted to steal my username in the past. He has been banned at least once from these boards, and continues to come back and register under new names. He refuses to respond to any questions about why he is here, and does not use MB principles in his advice. He is really "BestAdvisor1", and has used other names such as BestAngel, as well as my own name with a 1 after it in order to try to disguise himself as me.

He has interfered with a couple on this board who have been trying to reconcile their marriage, and despite their repeated requests to stop posting to them, he continues to do so.

I just thought you might need to know this information in choosing whom you listen to on the boards.

Please take into account the length of time users have been posting, and the information they are willing to offer you regarding their own past when taking advice, as well as how much information they utilize from the Marriage Builder principles. You can use the "search" features and look at the previous posts with that username to find out what others have said to them, and what they have posted about themselves for other things about a given poster.

My history here goes back two years. I have not deleted any posts that I can remember (if I have, I don't recall doing it....). I am a betrayed spouse who has successfully recovered my marriage using the MB principles and the support of this website. I'm two years out from d-day, married 32 years now.

You can find a lot of support here. I just wanted to warn you about SS.

This is a great place to be, just be aware of certain posters, and check us out. Ask about people's history if you are not sure!

SB

Boundraries:

1. No opposite sex 'friends'. Anything he tells a woman he's working with he should be comfortable having you 6" away (with a loaded gun to his head, if he needs more illustration).

2. No trips with other women. If he must go to conferences with female coworkers---no socialization.

3. No sharing intimate details of personal life. That includes receiving them as well. If he's in a conversation and a woman is acting flirty, he should mention his lovely wife, and then look for an exit.

I would tell him to avoid women as much as he can at work, especially as close friends. He's definitely 'at-risk'.

Perhaps Just Learning will drop by---he's got a decent list of precautions...

Have him read "Not Just Friends", which is a really good book about how relationships with friends of the opposite sex slip into more than that. It talks about these issues in clear terms, and your husband should recognize himself in the pages. It would be good for you to read too, so you can understand the mechanisms and also protect your own behaviors.

SB

Hi TBP,
I am glad to hear that you and FWH are making progress and that he has been posting here.

Is he willing to set up some rules or guidelines regarding operationalization of "watching his boundaries?"

I can add to the list if he is:
Do not go out to lunch or coffee or meet with a person of the opposite sex.

Do not ride in a car alone with a person of the opposite sex.

Do not make phone calls or text or write e-mails to a person of the opposite sex where the conversation is not necessary due to work related issues.


When he is at a party or get-together with you, he should always introduce you to any woman with whom he is conversing. These conversations should always be within the social group. He should never allow himself to get drawn into a corner or a hallway where he is alone with a woman.

If he is able to follow these rules and the others mentioned by K, it will be very difficult for him to get involved with another woman again.

What about his traveling? You mentioned in an earlier post that when he was going through his mid-life crisis and got involved in that EA, that he also kissed a woman at a bar (if I recall correctly) while he was out of town. Does he still travel? I hope he is able to refrain from going to bars if he still travels. Again, if he is dining out while traveling, he should not be dining alone with a woman. If there are women he works with that you feel are true friends of your marriage, you could agree that he could dine with them.

How is he doing with telling you about his day--who he saw, what he talked about, what was important to him during his day? This is another way of helping him share with you and of helping him to reflect on his daily activities to ensure they are marriage friendly.

Thanks for the responses...

Schoolbus, I am going to order "Not Just Friends". It was actually suggested to H in his thread too. Do you know which one? I saw that there are two versions on Amazon...

Lake, to answer your questions, H isn't due to travel for work but is planning a recreational trip sometime next year.
Also H has been very open and honest in answering my (many) questions about his day, etc, but a part of me thinks he doesn't like being questioned so much about it.

I tried to share some of your responses this morning to H who got defensive and was not interested in talking about the boundaries issue. He feels attacked by me continually bringing this up.

I think he feels I am being paranoid, and you know what, in some ways I am. I still think about what happened A LOT and worry constantly about something like this happening again, whereas he thinks we our M is strong now and since it wasn't before when he had the EA, boundaries isn't as big of an issue as I am making it.

Maybe I should leave this issue alone for the time being??


-------------
Me, BW, 32
FWH, 35
DD, 12
DS, 5
EA w/coworker, 2 mos
dday 10/15/07
followed the advice of this board and now we are in recovery!

thisbitterpill, I'm a little confused. Did he only admit to a EA or did he also admit to a PA as well? When is he going to change job?

TBP,

Order the one by Glass. It is a great resource and I hope it helps you two.

Who is your husband?

SB

I should adjust my sig line to show that FWH had an EA as well as kissed a 2nd OW at a bar... It was not a full blown PA. Yes, he has left his job.

Schoolbus, thanks again... FWH is MrTBP... Can I ask you since you were a BS, how long did you deal w/feelings of being frightened your FWH would end up having another A? For that matter, how about being afraid FWH will run into FOW and trigger the addictive feelings all over again? The area we live in, etc., the profession my FWH and FOW are involved in, it could happen...maybe not this week or this month but sometime down the road...

------------
-------------
Me, BW, 32
FWH, 35
DD, 12
DS, 5
EA w/coworker, 2 mos
kissed 2nd OW at a bar during the same time frame of EA
dday 10/15/07
followed the advice of this board and now we are in recovery!

TBP,

I dealt with the fear of renewed contact for a long time. I'm two years plus after d-day. I think I probably checked up on him for at least a year fairly regularly, and he was quite open about cellphone, email, computer, everything. He was remorseful and broke all contact from d-day on.

He immediately called her and told her there would never be another contact again, in any form or fashion. She agreed.

I talked to the OW a few times, to check his story. She was a former "friend" of mine. My fears of the two of them running into one another were pretty high, as well as my own fears of running into her, because I have to work with her husband, although he now works at a remote location where we cross paths only once a year or so. He and I can handle it. I have run into her once at my job. I was okay, but shaken. Stronger than I thought I would have been, actually.

As for contact between the two of them, I think the longer they don't talk, the better my H's reaction would be. At this point, he knows that if there were any incidental contact (we live in an extremely small town, so it could happen any day) and he failed to report it, well, it would be a deal breaker for the marriage. He wants this marriage to succeed, and I believe he would report any contact in full detail - in fact, I think he would probably hunt me down wherever I was and tell me immediately.

You and your husband should probably discuss this issue and how to handle and report any contact between them, even incidental or unintentional. If there is a plan in place for how he should proceed, and he knows your expectation, what he should do, and how he is to report such an event, then you will feel much safer about it. Then, he will know it is okay if it does happen - he will follow the plan, and you will know it happened, and you will be reinforced that he is open and honest about his committment to following the rules.

It's all about how you two agree to handle it. What would make you feel safe? If he accidentally crossed paths with her, what would you want him to do?

Just talk it out with him.

I would encourage you to talk to him about your fears as well, in all of this. It helps the WS to understand the fears that crop up from time to time, because the more the WS understands the fears, the better they become at being open, honest, checking in, and handling your needs in this regard.

Help your husband help you through the fear - devise a plan.

SB

Thanks for your reply, Schoolbus. I'd actually love to read your story...do you have a link to your thread?

FWH and I actually did discuss what to do if C were to occur and I was happy with his response (he would avoid her and if she were to approach him, he would say, "I cannot talk to you, it's not appropriate" and he would immediately report it to me.)

The problem is...well, I basically had FOUR d-days. Needless to say, it did a number on me. H finally told me details about the A's that I probably never would have found out about at our last MC session which leads me to believe he is finally being O&H with me but still, I wonder...I worry...

Secondly, I have learned that H is VERY PA. Wow, did that explain a lot of things! He will say what you want to hear to avoid awkwardness/conflict just to later do what he wants. Then he will be baffled when you are upset...so I do worry he is just telling me what he thinks I want to hear.

On the flip side, he IS trying...he is showing me in so many ways how much he loves me and the kids and really WANTS us to have a strong M. I guess I'll just keep a close eye on his actions and do my best to trust that he'll continue to make good decisions for our M.

Thanks for listening!

I actually never had a thread of my own, I don't think. I will go back and look it up - nobody has ever asked me for a link before, so here I am wondering if I had a "thread" or not. I do think I posted and asked some questions, but I will go back and look and see.

And will put a link in if I find it!

SB

TBP,

Well, I checked the first few months of my membership. I don't find a thread that one could call "mine". I don't really recall anything like that. What I remember doing is reading lots and lots of threads, asking questions along the way, and learning as well. I spent much of the time on the forums reading nearly every thread here.

I read in just about every forum on MB, too. I thought that if I understood every aspect of marriage, it might help. I read plenty, didn't post too often until about a year or so into my membership. My personal situation was a little different, though. My husband had been diagnosed with cancer almost immediately following d-day, and my father (who also had cancer) had a heart attack and had to have a stent put in his heart about three days prior to my husband's cancer surgery, so things were just nutty around here, the affair notwithstanding.

I had surgery in the early summer following the affair as well.

So from what I remember, my posting history wasn't frequent at first. My contributions back then related to forgiveness, that I do remember. I have a long history in that department, and I have had plenty of experience in working through that. Given what I was going through, and my husband's diagnosis, we felt rushed on working through the affair, and forgiveness was something I thought was the primary focus for me at the time.

I think I might have started a thread at one point, but I don't know that it was anything like yours - getting and garnering support and advice. My situation didn't really call for affair busting, and my FWH wasn't in withdrawals for the OW at all. His affair was "sex-for-the-sake-of-sex" and probably linked to a mid-life crisis.

If you have any questions, I'd be happy to answer almost anything.

My FWH was very reluctant at first to answer questions, too, so I know what that's like. It was difficult getting him to tell me what I wanted to know.

Has he read "Joseph's Letter?" It is on the notable posts thread. It might help him to understand why the trickling out of information is detrimental to the marriage, and why the BS needs to know and have answers.
SB

Thanks for sharing your story. I can't believe you went through so much after your d-day! Thanks also for the offer of answering questions~I'll definitely be taking you up on that.

I know what you mean about reading posts and learning~there is oodles of great info here. I am typically a CHICKEN when it comes to posting online, but this is the one time I didn't care~I'm sooo appreciative for the help I've gotten.

Our MC told us at our first session that during the crisis of an A, we could either land on our feet stronger than ever or lose everything we've had together...either way, we would definitely learn a lot about ourselves in the process. Wow, how true!

When I encouraged my H to post here, hoping it would turn into him exploring the boards some more...learning more...but so far, not so much... Maybe he still will~we'll see!

Happy New Year <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

My husband never did post. Not his style I guess. It took me a bit to do it too, but like you, I was desperate to get support and just jumped in.

Turned out that sharing what I thought and getting feedback brought me through the toughest days of my life.

Don't be afraid to be here. Tell your H not to be afraid or ashamed. Everyone (well, trolls excluded) here is here because we are trying to learn and grow and get ourselves back on track after a marital problem.

So we lean on each other. Sometimes there's disagreement. I always read through that stuff closely, and tried to figure out what made more sense to me. Sometimes I leaned one way, sometimes another, but most times I was able to pick out the things that worked for ME, in MY life, and utilize them well.

You can get through this, and you can come out with a stronger marriage. It does take both of you, committed to work on it.

Happy New Year back at ya!

SB

I haven't posted in a while but still here daily, reading and learning, trying to keep up w/everyone's threads!

Anyway, meremortal's two posts re the OP got me thinking more about the contact I had with OW in my H's EA with his coworker...

I had IM communication w/OW one day after DDay. "Pretense of innocence" couldn't describe it more perfectly. She even took it a step further and stated that I had "a lot to work on".

I used look at this TM script on my cell almost daily and now it has dwindled down to a couple times a week...I know, unhealthy.

Anyway, after thinking on meremortal's posts and analyzing my feelings, resentment towards OW(realizing some of it is misdirected) got me thinking it's time for me to erase it from my cell...but I thought I would post it here since 1) this thread is kind of like a scrapbook for me of what happened...no matter the outcome in my M, a definite time of personal growth for me and this is a piece of the story... 2) maybe someone else contemplating contacting the OP, looking for some answers or an apology, perhaps this will give a taste for what you may encounter...

Anyway if you made it this far, here it is(verbatim...misspellings and all):

***************
10/16/2007

ME: As u well know [FWH] and I have split up. I hope u know ur actions have contributed to it. The more he turned to u...the more poorly he treated us. Maybe u have convinced yourself that u were just being a "good friend" but it inexcuseable to talk to a married man in the middle of the night. U returned his attention. The cell and text records speak for themselves. when u engage in this type of behavior it can ruin people's lives. You should be ashamed. U will never hear from me again.

OW: I would really like to speak with you

ME: I am not interested in hearing excuses...just know that the next time a married man contacts u with his problems u should tell him to turn to professional help. That would have prevented this whole situation.

OW: Sorry for your pain. I did tell him u both should talk with someone. Im not sure what he told you but Im NOT the reason this happened. Not looking to give excus

ME: Like I said the frequency and timing of ur calls were inapppropriate and u should not have engaged in that with someone who is married. I guess u have convinced urself it is OK to speak to a married man in the middle of the night, that this type of behavior has no consequences. Hopefully u will learn from ur mistakes. Do not contact me again.

OW: I guss u have to put this on someone, and I guess thats me. This is crazy i never talked to him in the middle of the night maybe he left me a message...u have n

ME: I am not naive. I know this problem is not one person's fault. Even if u didn't talk in the middle of the night, the frequency and duration of the calls was inappropriate and I myself would never have crossed that line with another woman's husband. U have convinced urself u did nothing wrong. Fine. I have nothing more to say.

OW: Whatever. U both have a lot to work on...but i really do hope that u are able to fix things.

ME: Pls leave me alone.
**********************

Thanks for listening...