I am pretty positive my husband has broken or never even had NC. Many things not adding up now I am just in the process of trying to catch him because he never admits unless I throw the proof in his face. With proof I will go to plan B. What do I do if he refuses to leave the house. I am not going anywhere I am not the one who cheated.
I know I need to know but I am scared of going through the heartbreaking emotions again

I don't know your story but I'll take it on trust that you've done a Plan A and now your instincts are telling you WH isn't coming around. If so, you're probably right; instincts are pretty reliable and it's probably only a matter of time before your snooping develops some information.

So, what you do if he won't leave the house is file for a legal separation or divorce. Neither action means you can't fight for your marriage; both can be rescinded if WH sees the light. Your attorney (you should probably start interviewing lawyers immediately to find a good one) can help you with restraining orders to remove him from the house, etc., etc.

A good, dark Plan B, btw, removes you from the heartbreaking emotions suffered during the initial discovery phase.

Best of wishes

LH

yes I have an attorney I spoke to one the day I found out about the affair the first time before I discovered MB. I have done a great plan A and have only cried (LB) one time. I have been calm and understanding of what he is going through. He never 100% agreed to NC he simply said he would "try" he has also been "needing space" and "me time" RED FLAG RED FLAG
I just need to discover and uncover the lies and move forward and try to stay whole

I think you're on the right path, lady. I believe you're absolutely right about the red flags. If you haven't read the thread about doing a great snooping operation, there's a link to it in my signature area below. For his "me time," is he leaving the house and driving somewhere? Going to the store and taking three times as long as he should, perhaps? If so, perhaps you should consider a GPS device attached to the car he uses, plus a recording device inside the passenger cab might provide a lot of illumination into his "me time" travels.

Hang in there.

LH

My husband originally moved out to "think" which translates into I am having and affair but will not own up to it. So he moved to his Mothers and I went to straight exposure and one week later he came home and he seemed to try for about a week. He has only been home now for about a month and has become increasingly distant. NC was broken once and when that happened his parents got very angry with him and he has not spoken to them. However I still in my gut think he is talking to her still. I believe he is talking to her on the phone at work and seeing her at lunch. I have asked him many times and he denies and gets angry. However he denied forever about the affair until I through the proof in his face. Anyway I came home from the grocery store today and he informed me he was moving out and had packed all his things. I told him I am not interested in a divorce I told him he should devote half as much time to repairing the marriage as he has taken to fall out of love with me. I said a million things and of course I broke down into a pyschotic pathetic blob. I begged and I pleaded and I know those are the wrong things to do but I just lost it. He left and I called the skank and finally left her a message. I did not call her any names or threaten her but told her I hope she can sleep at night and I wish I could hate her but I feel sorry for her.

Anyway so now he is gone and I am assuming Plan A is no longer and option. We do not have kids so he can easily just shut off and walk away. I believe I am at the point I need to be in Plan B? If so does anyone have a great Plan B letter?

Straight to exposure?

Did you expose at his work, to her family, her BF or BH?

Did you put into place ways to verify rather than ask him?

You only LB'd once during your Plan A? Really? You consider crying an LB?

Seems to me you know healthy boundaries before WH can come home again...agreeing to NC and writing the NC letter. To counseling and transparency...and for you to not stop your verifying rather than manipulating him into telling him the truth. You really get that now...his truth versus the truth. They are separate.

I don't advise Plan B when you LB'd as his last image of you. You didn't respect his choice, I didn't read any listen and repeat, nor did I read of any enforcements when you knew he broke NC once...from you.

Throwing proof in his face...believing you made him be honest finally...that's where I would start. Proof was for you to KNOW the truth...not to change him or his answers. I would sit and think about what I was really working so hard for...to be right or to be married. I would accept if being right was my goal...and go ahead and file for divorce.

I had to ask myself that same thing...you're not alone...I had to get to where I identified my desire to control my DH was higher than my desire to act and live from love and respect.

Up to you what you really want...and to identify what it is, why it is your highest goal, deepest desire...and then see how to act from it.

Your choice to call the OW and leave a message right after him leaving...maybe a signal of not dealing fully with exposure, sharing the truth with all parties pertaining to your lives, marriage and the A.

Maybe reconsider your Plan A and see if you were being doormat (building resentment and entitlement) or if you were doing it to be the equal partner in your marriage you already are...and experiencing a marriage with healthy boundaries and predetermined, progressive boundary enforcements.

Seems to me you're reaching for ninth boundary enforcement after not having taken the previous progressive eight ones. Self-betrayal hurts like heck...I know...I remember. Sure can feel like it's all coming from someone else's betrayal, instead.

LA

Reexpose. Have you read SAA, HNHN & Love must be tough? You need those under your belt t/d a good plan B. Have you identified your boundaries, secured your finances and does your exposure include OW's side? If so, then you will soon be ready t/g to plan B. You must have your mind and heart in sync 1st.

Btw, know that WS' babble. Take a look at my reverse babble link and search under reverse babble to see some rebuttal examples.

take care,
L.

I have exposed to his work and it is actually how I found out. I used to work there and the OW has my old job and when she was fired e mails and voicemails were discovered. I have exposed to her husband although they are separated and have filed for divorce. I have exposed to his family and they are 100% on my side and think what he is doing is wrong. I have read all the books and then some it has been a salvation to realize what I am going through is reality. I think when I let him come home I was a doormat because he never really gave an effort but I just told myself it was withdrawl. He has said there has been NC but I know he has a personal phone call in the morning and close to five and goes somewhere for lunch. My greatest desire is to be married and have the man I fell in love with back. I don't want his last memory of me being a mess. He is very angry with me still for exposure and angry that his family sides with me. Angry that people at his work side with me...he blames me.

kriscast,

His reaction to exposure is typical. Of course he's angry. He got caught. I'm with LA....your Plan A is not done. His last view of you must be attractive. You need to stand tall and clean up. Concentrate on your health and your spirit so that you can be your strongest. It's much harder to do Plan A from a distance....but not impossible. You folks will have business together....even without children. Definitely secure your finances, and then be prepared to show him exactly how stupid he would be to let you go. And don't you DARE let him back into the house until he's willing to DEMONSTRATE (no lip service) that he is ready to recommit to the marriage. Keep touch with his family and let them know you're not giving up and appreciate their help.

(((((((((((((((kc))))))))))))))))))

Thank you so much for all the kind words. It never thought this kind of pain existed but obviously you have all been through it.
I called and left him a message and apologized for getting so upset. I told him I did want him to get the answers he needed and I still think him continuing to see a counseler would be a good idea. Up till now the counsele he had been seeing is through the EAP program so he had seven visits for free. He thinks however he went to make me and his mother happy but then sometimes he flips and says he made the choice to see the counselor. Anyway I told him to call me so we could talk and figure out if he wanted to go we would pay for it because I loved him and I am his wife. When he left I asked him to work on the marriage and he said I have been working...I come home every night. I guess in my mind that is not working.
One of our friends called him and said she only wanted the best for both of us and wanted him to think about what he was doing and not rush into things. She told him to be carefull with the OW because she has cheated on her husband. He said no she hasn't she never cheated before..she said even if that is true she cheated on her husband when you cheated on your wife. He said he did not want to hurt me and that he questioned us getting married right before we got married and he went along with it because he has spent his whole life trying to make everyone happy. He said for once he needs to figure it out....Our friend told me that she did not want to hurt me and he did not come out and say it but she got the feeling that his mind is already made up.

kc,

We have a name for the blather that BS's spout....fogbabble. They rewrite history, they seem as though their mind is made up.....all very convincing. For now, suspend your faith in what he says....it's the addiction talking. Follow Orchid's link to "reverse-babble" and remember that he's the one who is confused....not you.

Keep posting. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

So if I attempt to do a Plan A again this time without me being a doormat how do you do it when he is not here. Do I wait for him to contact me? I think my Plan A was not right...He never truly agreed to NC or to working on the M he would always say "I'll try" and cry. I wanted him here so bad I would tell him I understand his pain and what he was going through and we could get through this...all the supportive things I could say however I am not sure I ever set the boundaries for myself as to what I was willing to do. When he left this time I kept saying if you would have just tried to fall in love with me half as hard as you did to fall out of love with me. He said he has been trying for a month and I asked how have you been trying. He said he had come home to this house every night. This month he has been home and needed his "me time" and wanting to go out all the time I never once said no I don't want to I want to work on the marriage. During this month he asked me to go with him out drinking with friends many times. I guess in his mind if he included me it made it like he was trying. Seeing it now I realize he wanted to go and do all the time because he could not stand the thought of spending time alone with me. One night I was sick and I wanted us to go home he said "honey if you are sick go home and I will see you later" Never in our past would he have let me go home feeling bad and he went out and I did not stand up for myself. I am always scared to anger or irritate him which has been funny because EVERYTHING I do irritates him I would venture to say the way I breath drives him nuts at this point.

kc.


There will naturally be times when you have to have interaction....your lives are melded on many levels. I would neither pursue him OR wait. Both of those courses give away your power. Work on being attractive and confident....and when you do see your husband....make it count.


Yeah, I think you're probably right....so regroup and read up so you can perfect it.


Yes....this leads to the doormat plan....not Plan A. It's very hard to be BOTH loving and have good boundaries....but a good Plan A requires both. Don't give up.


If he knows you're willing to take him back no matter how wishy washy he is....what will motivate him to choose the marriage. Remember that he's the one who's confused....and you can lead him back to the marriage....but not pull him.


This tells you that you are still dealing with the Wayward and not your husband. You keep expecting him to react as your husband would....but that's not who's there right now.


Again....he's the wayward...not the husband.


It's not your duty to stop angering or irritating him....it's your job to refrain from lashing out with LBs. Fighting infidelity will OFTEN anger or irritate the wayward while you are enforcing your boundaries. So worry less about his reaction than you do about your ability to control your own emotions and remain confident and attractive. Weepiness and neediness are not attactive. The harder you try to hold on....the more he'll pull away. Reinvest your energy back into building your own security and capability.

You can do this.

Thank you so much starfish what you have said is amazing. I do have one set of friends I have not exposed to. I was trying to help him save face as they are his long time friends. When I get to work Monday I will e mail them and let them know I love him and only want to work on our marriage. When he left he told me he was leaving to figure out what he wants but in the same breath he could not promise he would not see the OW He informed me when he left he changed all his passwords and the only thing he asked of me was not to follow him or check on him. I know he is now out of the house and wants to eat his cake and I can not stop him. I just hope he realizes the fantasy and her three kids with her run down house and pyscho ex husband is not such a dreamy world to live in after all. It truly amazes me that he won't even talk to his Mother and Brother but then again I have seen so much worse behavior from other members on this site. I just worry his mind is made up already he is just feeding me lines because in his mind if you lower the bomb slowly it hurts me less and it kills his guilt. I can not change his mind I know I can only change me. It is easy to say that and so much harder to do it.

kc,

Yep, those long time friends can be a great asset...or not...but you can't know unless you stop worrying about protecting him for the consequences of his own sleazy choices. Why should you have to omit the truth in order to protect his reputation? Don't worry about what's going on in his fogged "mind"....worry about keeping your sanity and being the lighthouse to lead your husband back home. Especially since you have more exposure to do....your ability to refrain from lovebusters and control your emotions is vital to success. He will be angry....okay....that's part of the fallout and very predictable. Ignore it...in the same way you ignore his fogbabble and revision of history. Appeal to the man you know he is....rather than the alien he has become. Feed the husband....starve the wayward....you'll know the difference. It's only been a month since you began here....settle in and remember that longterm....the odds are definitely on your side if you can keep your wits about you.

((((((((((((((((((kc)))))))))))))))))))

Ok so I am now trying to be the non doormat needy version of Plan A well the best I can with him not living at home.
Yesterday and today I sent him a quick e mail basically a have a great day and some chit chat about a TV show or random things like that. I have not mentioned the relationship i have not done my usual I will be waiting here for you when you are ready. I am trying to be the woman he would date instead of the woman he would walk on. I am going to dinner with a friend tonight and told him I was going to a movie this weekend and he was more than welcome to join me if he likes. I know he won't but I asked and when he replied to my e mail he did his usual which is to reply to everything but the question he chooses to pretend that was not there. I am feeling a little better today and am trying to get my head wrapped around being me instead of being just his wife.

Stop inviting him. Let him view you from afar.

WS tend to view BS contact as a bother. It isn't but that's their warped view. So the less interaction the more reaction on their part. If you want him to stay away, keep pestering him (yea, that's how a WS views it). If you want to think about you, tell him less so he can ask more.

JMHO,
L.

Ok thanks for the advice! Should I refrain on sending him an e mail in the mornings just about things that have no bearing on the relationship? I do it as a HI and here is what is going on in the neighborhood or around the house. I have done no relationship talk and no LB I am trying to come across like I am happy and confident however there is part of me that worries he will think....OK she is doing just fine I don't feel guilty now she will get on with her life. I am REALLY dreading the weekend coming up as I know it is going to be hard. When I e mail him he actually replies now in full sentences instead of the one word responses I was getting before he moved out. I always make sure I am the one to end the e mail string so I don't appear needy. I do know sometime next week I will probably have to see him to give him his mail with his bills. Part of me just wants to send them to his office so I don't have to see him. Part of me wants to see him and try to look the best I can and smile.

Continue the friendly emails. It's good that he is making longer replies. And it will give him the idea that he has somewhere to go when he dumps OW.

part of me is hoping she dumps him! He has never wanted children and I mean NEVER He has been that way since he was a kid. The OW is going through a divorce and has three kids....the friend he just moved in with well they have three foster children and both his friends and the OW live in run down filthy houses. Hope he gets his fill of babies and kids real quick. He thinks because OW is his true love they should have had children together. Thank heavens he had a vasectomy last year that would have made things so much more fun than already are:)