I need some help here:<P>My W of 15+ years has grown quite close to OM -- husband of best friend. What was one refered to as "friend and husband" is now "husband and friend". Kids seem to becoming more attached. Of course they are friends to OM kids, but appear to refer to him often. W cooresponds via e-mails to OM, and appears to be more comfortable sharing info with him, "like a friend". OM has been known to call house, often times during periods that I was suppose to be at work. OM and his W were to take my W on Vegas trip while I was away. OM's W backed out at last minute and my W left with OM. Emotional and recreational attachments seem REAL strong, yet through it all, my W denies it. Intercepted e-mails appear to confirm something is up, but if it's become physical is hard to say for certain. Currently we're in conseling, but only after I cofronted the OM. Of course, I've been made out to feel guilty since I've apparently destroyed my W's friendships. <BR>So, am I paranoid or is something up? I look forward to any insights...!

your wife's "friendship" with this man, is at the very least inappropriate! But even if it hasn't become physical (they went to vegas alone?!?!?!?), there is such a thing as an affair of the heart. I feel that a good marriage doesn't have room for either the h or the w to share that kind of closeness with any third party! She's hiding email? why? Don't buy into the guilt. You are entitled to your feelings, and deserve to have your questions answered. Don't "settle" for any old answer. Make sure that it makes sense to you. Otherwise, you'll only end up feeling like a putz for believing her lies. I'm glad you're in counseling...i hope your wife knows that it will only work if she is 100% honest. let me know how it goes,<BR>jily

Unfortunately, we've all learned the hard way that if you feel something is wrong, it probably is. <P>Even if your wife isn't currently having an affair, the stage is certainly set for one. You are right to be concerned. Sit her down and talk about how YOU want to be her best friend. The prevalence of extra-marital affairs in our society is very high. If you don't want to be a statistic, you need to do something about your marriage, now. <P>Read all you can about marriage and affairs. Remember that affairs don't happen out of the blue. This friendship with the OM is meeting some very important need of your wife's that is not being met at home. <P>Here's where I differ somewhat from Harley. A friend of mine suspected her husband was having an affair or was about to. She never asked him about it. She went into what we call plan A. Really worked on her marriage and herself. They have a great relationship now and she has no concerns. If there was someone else in the picture, they are gone now. <P>I handled it completely differently. I confronted my H with anger and outrage. He left. Sometimes I wonder if things would have worked out differently if I hadn't forced him to choose between me and her at a time when the affair was so new and exciting. Within 6 months, the affair wasn't so exciting and he broke up with her. But by then our marriage was so damaged that it appears irretreivable. <P>So think about how to handle this. There are pros and cons to confronting your wife or collecting 'proof'. Just make sure it is a decision, and not a knee-jerk reaction like mine was. <P>This forum is a great place for support and advice. It will really help if you are familiar with Harley's concepts. Also check out <A HREF="http://www.divorcebusting.com." TARGET=_blank>www.divorcebusting.com.</A> <P>-Annie

First, thanks to all for the responses. <BR>I had to confront my W since for about two years I tried to address my concerns in a more civil manner. Another issue, not mentioned above, is that I think substance abuse has been an issue. My kids had mentioned that my W drinks more around the OM, and I have noticed it at other events. I'm not totally innocent here. I've been neglectful of my W, going back to many years of business trips on the road. Nothing happened on those trips, although the temptations were plentiful. I didn't want to get into trouble because I respected my W and marriage. Now it's different. It's hard to trust, and it's getting hard to have faith. The other day she asked during conseling re:love and why that word had not yet come up in the few weeks of sessions. It's a hard reality to face, but without the trust, it's hard to love.

Keystone,<P>I think you have every right to (and should) question the relationship between your W and OM. I say this because out of experince. <P>!4 years ago, a peson came into mine and H life. He visited often when H was home. I liked to write and so did OM. This stroke up a chord of commonality between us. He started to call and drop by when H was not home. It was all innocent at first. Little by little, though, things began to change. I started seeing my H differently (of course, om was pointing out much of this too me). Well, to make a long story short, I ended up betraying the man I love. OM led my H and me to believe he was gay and there was nothing to worry about. I thought he was gay too. Put a male and female together in a close friendship and, if one or the other is married or attached to someone else-it spells danger.<P>If my H developed a friendship with ow today, I would put my foot down immediately. As one of the other posters stated: there just isn't room for those sort of friendships in a marriage. Good luck

I have to STRONGLY agree with Animac and hurting wife. If she loves you she should respect your insecurities with this relationship and let go of him as a friend. Maybe you feel badly, like you shouldn't be telling her who to be friends with, WRONG, if it smells like cheese most often it is cheese. Maybe to confront her by saying you want to be that best friend she is looking for might help, and that you feel her relationship with him could interfer with the development of a stronger marriage between the two of you might help. Try it. Most of us have found to trust out instincts and if you feel something is going on don't let it continue, the longer it goes, the hard life is. God Bless! <P>------------------<BR>Chick's <BR>Bren<P>You won't see things until your ready to not be blind!<P><BR>

keystone if you do not feel comfortable with the relationship your wife has with OM then it is inappropriate. Even if nothing more has happened than you are aware of, your wife should be more sensitive to your feelings. If this friendship continues as is, I would expect it to lead inevitably to something wrong. Your wife does not see the danger. What does his wife think? Hopefully through counseling you can both understand how to focus on each others needs and build a stronger marriage. Don't feel guilty you've probably caught the germ of an affair before it has time to grow.<P>------------------<BR>It's always darkest before the dawn

YOU CANNOT TELL AN ADULT WHAT TO DO!!<P>Chicks and awoken:<P>Yes, it's inappropriate, and yes, keystone's W should take his feelings into consideration. But as someone who's been in keystone's position, I can tell you that there's not a whole lot you can do in terms of the spouse's behavior.<P>Once you've expressed your discomfort, and explained rationally why, all you can really do is try to meet the needs that the external party is meeting...and hope that the spouse will eventually decide that your feelings matter more than the friendship.<P>I haven't gotten there yet either. No, H doesn't go out much anymore, and there's still that incident last weekend. But things are definitely BETTER in my situation. Predatory She-B*tch from Hell (PSBFH) is still around, but I haven't had to deal with her.<P>Keystone, I've been doing a "nondisclosure Plan A" since March in a very similar situation to yours. Yes, your W is involved in some sort of affair. Whether it's sexual yet or not remains to be seen. Yes, if she loves you she should take your feelings into account. If she refuses, then you have two choices:<P>1) Leave<BR>2) Change your half of the dynamic between you.<P>Yeah, I've gotten the same rap -- "You don't want me to have friends." It's always the same. If it's not sexual, they refuse to acknowledge it's a problem. Sometimes these "friendships" are tougher to deal with than actual sexual/love affairs, because no one seems to recognize them as a form of affair.<P>If your W is willing to do the needs questionnaire, that might help. If recreational needs are a strong issue (and it sounds like they are; I know that doing "fun things" on the weekends has helped MY marriage), you may need to give on YOUR front.<P>

Beware....it sounds like an affair. From experience I can tell you that the so-called<BR>"best friends" become or already are "lovers"<BR>My husband has told me the OW ??was/is?? his "best friend"....the only best friend they should have is you...as the others on this forum have already said "there simply is no room for a "best" friend in the middle of a marriage, it slowly becomes "three's a crowd"<BR>You did not say anything about this VERY <BR>SUSPICIOUS trip to Las Vegas with OM ? What did his wife say ? I just want to share one little thing about trips with you. In my case and just before I found out about his affair with OW, my husband encouraged me to go on a school trip to Europe with both of my<BR>kids (12 days away from him) coming up in June of 2000. This would have given him a litte honeymoon with the OW...that's what he wanted...I threw this little fact in his face <BR>at the time of discovery...he just looked at me and knew I had hit the nail right on the <BR>head...

First, thanks to all. had to leave the office, so getting these replies this am has been great.<P>Re:sadforever -- dejavu! (sp?) I nailed her on the Vegas trip. Although she told me she was going with her "best friend" and her husband (the OM), I was not happy about the idea. My reaction was pretty obvious to me, although she claims it was not to her. This trip was (ironically enough) to coincide with a school related trip for my daughter that was going to take me away for a week.<P>W claims that her "best friend" became sick at the last moment. W and OM then went to Vegas, apparently with "best friends" okay.<BR>I never bought it, since if "best friend" was ill, why didn't her husband remain with her instead of traveling off with my W!?<P>My W is shifting blame to me, claiming that it was merely platonic. Just friends being friends. My "problem" is that my work doesn't allow alot of outside friendships. Friendships are how she has always coped with my work time away (long hours, travels, etc), and my W "is not about to change".<P>Suddenly, I have become "controlling" -- 13 years into the marriage. She even admitted to conselor that I was never this way. She wants to maintain her friendships.<P>She did, however, start to cut her ties to "best friend" and OM. However, they have recently started up again. She admitted that she was at their home, with our kids and theirs, last week. Birthday and school stuff. But, I'm not happy about it. It seems clear that it has to be a complete and total break from "best frfiend" and OM, but she doesn't appear to want to go that route.<P>We do share recreational time on weekends, but essentially it is all kids related -- games, events, etc. I would love to, and would have always loved to, spend more quality time alone with my W. But, she claims, that I have always resisted since it would take time away from the kids events and family involvement. To a certain extent, there is some truth to that. <P>At consel, I feel that I am the only one effected by the impact of these events, the only one wanting to try to rebuild things the way they WERE instead of the way they ARE NOW. <P>RE: Dazed and Confused... I would LOVE to meet those needs that OM is meeting with my W. But hard to do since she appears to rebuff attempts, even stating that it "replused her" when I touched her on the arm after days earlier, "destroying" her freindship with OM and "best friend". Where do you start when your already walking on eggshells??

Keystone,<BR>Trust in your feelings. If you feel that there is something going on that shouldn't be, find out for sure. I had to do some sneaky things to confirm my suspicions. My W still denies it, but I know in my heart that she is involved with OM. Sometimes what starts out as a friendship develops into much more. People that are truely commited to their marriage won't allow another to get that close, but there are the exceptions. Many of us can attest to that. Go to counseling, but keep snooping until you know for certain that things are over. It may take a long time, so have patience. If your marriage is worth it to you, find the strength to hang on.<P>------------------<BR><BR>That Which does not kill us makes us stronger.<BR>

At what point do you have to trust? Obviously, there's been a breakdown in trust and honesty. I'm trying to be stong enough to show that I'm willing to try -- for the sake of the relationship. But it's not easy.<BR>If I continue to snoop around, it seems like that would simply compound the problems and drive a bigger wedge into the marriage.

Keystone,<P>I could be way off base but it sounds to me like you may already be in trouble..(your touching her repulsed her?). How does her best friend (OM W) feel about this friendship. From what I can gather, she doesn't know her H went on the trip with your W ? If she doesn't know maybe she should. It just seems your W is more concerned about her own feelings and those of OM more than yours. Would you be comfortable talking to OM W about it? Hope it all works out for you. Good luck

Keystone: I have been in your shoes many times. My spouse had his female friends that he would confide in and when I tried to put a stop to it, he became offended. When I tried to talk to him and hold him, he would back away or give me a quick peck on the cheek. Unfortunately, after awhile(as I said in an earlier post) "I gave up" and decided to look for affection elsewhere.<BR>I agree with the individual who states "You cannot tell an adult what to do", but I will tell you that I did find out later that these so-called female friends were doing whatever they could to break up our marriage. Of course, as I also stated before, "some folks don't get it"(like my spouse) until after disaster happens.<BR>I am not suggesting that you go looking for someone else to ease your pain, but look at taking care of yourself. You can't control her behavior which could cause her to go to the OM more often than you like. You are going to counseling which may help in dissecting the problem and develop a plan toward a solution. In the meantime, make sure you are not letting this eat you alive. You are important too and sometimes the only one who knows that is you. My prayers are with you. I know this sounds corny, but if she seems repulsed at you touching her or hugging her, hug your kids, hug your dog/cat, hug yourself. Your kids deep in their hearts know who their DAD is and love him dearly. Your pets love you unconditionally and you should love yourself unconditionally.

RE:hurtingwife... The OM's wife did know about the trip. I'm not friends with OM's wife, and in fact, she is my W's "best friend". Wierd, I know.<P>W is clearly more concerned about her feelings and those of OM. She feels since I don't have a strong support group of friends, I don't understand. It just seemed to me that my W and I used to be "best friends" and now I don't even know if we're friends at all. <BR>