Yes that is right. Sometimes Plan A and Plan B do not motivate the WS to end the A.

You can start with a good marriage. A marriage that appears happy and successful in every way. Then comes the A. It’s usually a romantic one with a work colleague as it was in my WS’s case.

It seems that the better the marriage was and the higher the WS’s moral standards were pre-A, the more vehemently the WS will rationalize and justify their behavior.

My plan A made my husband feel guilty, but not remorseful. OW didn’t make him feel guilty. WH punished me for his guilty feelings and rewarded OW for helping him justify and rationalize his behavior.

My plan B infuriated WS and he became even more entrenched in his justification and became creative in finding ways to punish me. False recoveries, broken NC promises, etc.

Finally, after a long and grueling effort to save my marriage, I initiated and followed through with the divorce.

I did Plan A too long. I endured disrespectful cruel treatment from my WH too long and my self respect suffered terribly. Not until after the D have I begun to FULLY recover that.

My message to those initiating the Plan A/Plan B path: DO NOT FORGET YOUR SELF RESPECT!!! Read up on these plans, make sure you understand them. Make Plan A about proving to YOURSELF that you are capable of being the perfect partner for your mate. Fulfill your partners most important ENs. EXCEPT SF --- make it clear that SF with you has to be exclusive, because it is special and profound. NO SF in Plan A or Plan B … get it?
Make Plan B about practicing the four rules: protection, care, honesty, and time with YOURSELF and for YOURSELF. Use those rules to take care of yourself, get a future as a single parent sorted out, and start the healing. Use Plan B to extricate yourself from WS’s intrigues and chaos. Use Plan B to find peace.

Remember that WS may have taken the place of you S forever. Despite all the wonderful success stories, Plan A and Plan B do not always deliver the S back into the M. If done correctly though, a well executed Plan A and Plan B can help give you the knowledge that you went the extra mile, you did everything within your power to be the best partner you could and everything you could to save your marriage.

P.S. Over a year after the D, my XH is STILL entrenched in babbling self-justification and fog --- evidently still sneaking around with Skunkypoo, outwardly trying to give the impression of the poor abandoned family father living alone in a big empty house with a SUV parked outside. Now suffering from mysterious chronic illnesses like shingles affecting the eyes and psoriatic arthritis.

Wow LT. I feel like you've written my story.

I'm pretty sure none of my efforts can restore my marriage, but at least I know I tried to do what I could.

I think it's hard for people to accept the fact that no matter what they do, they cannot save their marriage. I know that I struggle with this realization every day.

It is my belief that a lot of WS are the type of people that have to learn by experience. They must go through the entire relationship and feel the hurt and pain of their choices before they can see that it wasn't worth it in the end. And sometimes there is no guarantee that they ever will see it. It's just too bad they force other people to endure this devastation along with them.

"If done correctly though, a well executed Plan A and Plan B can help give you the knowledge that you went the extra mile, you did everything within your power to be the best partner you could and everything you could to save your marriage."

That is why it is best to follow the plans here and give it your best. My husband and OW DID end the affair - 2 weeks after we divorced. Most affairs DO end. The problem is, I was DONE.

In my case, this was THE OPPOSITE. This is directly opposed to what Steve Harley says...this made my H continually feel WORSE about the A..unable to justify it to himself despite the OW's insistence that what they were doing was GOOD AND RIGHT...

My H could not FORGET the POSITIVE MEMORIES of our MARRIAGE..our HISTORY together...

In the Affair, they have to try to LIVE IN THE PRESENT...

I don't agree with you on this point...

But, of course, NOTHING works 100% of the time...but I think it's best to focus on the POSITIVE and what does work...

Me too Mimi. My H could not have felt worse or more guilty. It didn't stop him at the time but it never left him. I didn't know this until after we recovered.

People need to remember that Plan B is ALSO to PROTECT any love you may have left for your WH... IN CASE there is recovery.

LIT:

To quote the good Dr.

The fastest horse doesn't always win the race but you'd be nutz not to back it anyway.

There are no guarantees. But you've given it a pretty fair shot.

This is never something that you want to hear when you are fighting to save a marriage, however, sometimes there is nothing that you can do to change the situation. I know first hand that Plan A and B as well as counseling with the Harley's, Marriage counseling with several counselors, etc. did not save the marriage.That's because my ex did not make the choice to help save it. Looking at it from that perspective, I realize there was nothing further I could do.

The Harley's will tell you that there are no guarantees. That is just the reality of it. The bottom line for me is, give it all you've got and you can hold your head up knowing you did your best. IMHO, it takes two people to make a marriage work. One person can take the lead and fight, showing that there is a way to fix things, however, eventually the other has to get on board as well or no plan will work.It's a choice the WS has to make at some point.There's no way around it.

However, plan A saved my M from a REAL mess <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Harley told both my WH and myself that three things had to happen before we could begin recovery.

1. No Contact with the OW.
2. WS must take complete responsibility for the affair.
3. WS must answer all of BS's questions about the affair.

Well, none of those three things ever happened. WH felt guilty, still does, in fact I think he suffers terribly from his guilt. Too bad he doesn't do anything constructive about it. But he never showed remorse. He never did anything at all to repair any of the damage he did.

There is a big chunk of my life missing. A whole lot of questions that will never get answered. A whole lot of "should haves, could haves, would haves" have gone through my mind. But at some point you have to accept what has happened, learn the lesson, let go, get on with your life, forgive, and heal the best you can.

Easier said than done. I go through the motions and on the outside it looks like I am doing fine, even great ... but it doesn't feel like it on the inside. Not yet.

I should be happy to be rid of all that WS intrigue. I am even beginning to realize that maybe WS wasn't the man I believed him to be pre-A. So this H that I miss so terribly was really just an illusion? That's 20 years of my life!

I guess the trick is to live in the present. Physically, actively I am doing everything to make a good life for me and my daughters. And things are going surprisingly well. My career has taken flight and financially, things are working out just fine. That is not to be taken for granted; its not the usual fate of a divorcée. I just wish my heart would follow...

I'm not a "always look at the bright side" kind of person, but I look at this a little bit differently.

What helped me was to re-evaluate how I define success. So many times, achieving our definitions of success rely, at a minimum, on others acting responsibly. Unfortunately, others don't always act responsibly.

When I apply that to the idea of whether plan A or plan B worked, I get a new definition of "worked"

When I read your posts, it sounds to as if plan A "worked" because you improved yourself and by doing so prooved it was your WH acting irresponsibly. This led you to plan B, which "worked" by giving you greater empowerment and prepared you for plan D.

I don't know, just a thought.

I'd say that not every marriage is recoverable. Its not a failure of MB, or plan A or B. Its a function of the state of the marriage, the participants in the situation, their past history, etc, etc...

I think that the plans offered by MB seem to be the best laid PLAN that I've seen yet. It likely offers the most hope for recovery compared to any of the other 'plans' I've seen out there.

But the bottom line is that not every patient can be saved.

I would agree that plan A and plan B can still be considered to have "worked" if they help in personal recovery, even if the marriage wasn't saved.

I have to admit that I don't think that I will recover my marriage, but it wasn't PLAN A/B's fault. In fact looking back it was the way I conducted PLAN A/B. I did a horrible job with PLAN A, and then I went to PLAN B to soon. So to be honest, the PLAN A/B has a wonderful chance of making things work, if you don't muck it up.

P.S. I am not giving up, in fact I just revealed the affair to OM's sister and father today, but I think it is too late.

Ryan.

I think that most people forget that Plan A seldom ends the affair.

Plan B is not designed to end the affair. It is instead simply a way for the BS to withdraw from the daily drama surrounding the affair and preserve any love they have left in order to make reconciliation possible if and when the affair dies of its own accord and weight.

Plan A is to give a best effort to solve the issue of an empty love bank in the WS while trying to negotiate the end of the affair. It requires that the BS examine him/herself to identify those habits and instincts that are love busters and take steps to eliminate them. It also teaches the BS what ENs are important to the WS and gives them an opportunity to learn how to meet them. It makes the BS a better spouse than they were before.

If by "work" we mean the WS agrees to come home and commit to recovery and restoration of the marriage, then neither Plan A or Plan B works very often. But Plan A is only marginally designed to manipulate the WS into that scenario and Plan B isn't intended to do it at all. The bottom line is that there is really nothing you can do to control the WS so that your preferred outcome is certain. That's why Plan A is about fixing what you CAN control, yourself, and Plan B is all about waiting for the WS to change themselves.

And as Owl has stated, only MB offers a well thought out plan of any kind that is based on research and experience rather than theory and wishful thinking.

Mark

Do you really know who plans A & B are suppose to benefit 1st?

Hint: It isn't the WS.

Re: We can't teach a WS anything as long as they choose t/b a WS.

The plans are created to help the BS and family survive. Breaking the A w/the plans is an added benefit but not the main goal.

L.

losttranslation,

Wow! I feel as though you wrote my story! OW was also a former friend of mine and my son's X Godmother.

I tried plan A & B, it didn't work for me. I tried for 1 1/2 year. I knew in my heart that I gave 100% in trying to save my marriage; when it was time to file, I was ready.

I recognize that the Plans won't always work. I still believe in them.

Chemotherapy doesn't ALWAYS kill cancer. But it has its uses.

Soap and water doesn't always kill all the germs. But it's better than not washing your hands.

Having a road map helps most people to not get lost. Having directions helps more if you follow them.

I didn't follow the directions. I followed some of them. Not all of them. I followed them too late.

Having MB to vent on and later to help others was good for me. I enjoy watching others who follow the plans and succeed. I enjoy encouraging them.

If you base Plan A/B success on whether the marriage recovers or not, then I agree, they don't always work.

To me, though, that's like saying God isn't real because he didn't answer my prayer in the way I wanted, when I wanted it. I know God works. Period.

I believe Harley's intent with Plan A/B is so you can really know you did everything possible towards your goal to save your marriage. It's about you, not the outcome. And when you come out the otherside...you are the outcome.

A success. Changes for a lifetime.

LA

I dunno.. Plan A and Plan B are -wonderful- and I agree, they are designed more with the BS in mind. In essence they are guidelines to facilitate the BS doing self evaluation and improvement, and setting boundaries for what is acceptable for them in a restored marriage should the WS choose that path. They are also great tools for when/if the WS -does- return and if the BS can be present during withdrawl.

Honestly, at best Plan A alone -might- break up some A's. Plan B turns up the heat on the guilt furnace because in a dark Plan B, the WS actually gets hit with real life without the BS in it.. and that can sometimes turn a WS.. but if it doesn't.. you're in for a long haul and Plan B is there to protect the BS.. that's really what it's for.

To be honest.. NO PLAN WILL EVER WORK if the WS refuses to give up the affair. If that's the case Plan B is the best shot a BS has to survive the ongoing affair with enough love still in the bank to make a full scale attempt at recovery once the affair dies a normal death (and they almost always do)... The -key- components of either plan are consistency, time, and patience.

I think the Plans work if you follow them correctly. I found MB too late, and implemented Plan B too late I believe. When I did do it, I kept caving in and breaking it. Too many Plan B's have caused WH to quit trying. He kept trying, but of course he wanted both.

Anyway, it's almost like he is doing Plan B to me now.

Plan B has not worked in our case, H got married to OW at the weekend. I have been in a very dark Plan B since March 06 and we have 3 children. the 2 older ones are also doing a Plan B with their father so he has decided that if they don't wont to see me there is nothing he can do. Ow has a son the same age as D5 so it is very convenient for them that the older children do not want to see their father, there is just the 4 of them playing happy families while living with her parents.

I will continue to do a Plan B for life but have not seen much information about Plan B after divorce and when the spouse remarries. Any others been in this position infor will be greatly appreciated.