Mimi, making Kim aware of the dangers is helping her.

Yes, I agree the sex issue needs to be dealt with...but it needs to be dealt with in a responsible manner that doesn't put the BS life at risk in order to recover a M.

So, IMHO, helping Kim would mean giving her advice that allows her to work towards recovering her marriage while at the same time protecting her life and future. Anything less than that is not really helpful and could result in tragedy.

agreed

I'd think that telling Kim both sides and letting her make up her own mind makes the most sense.

She's heard both sides.

No point in repeating what's been said, is there?

Owl...is this another one of your attempts to tell someone what and how to post?

WOW!!!!

I have to take some time to look up all the acryonms in these messages and digest what you have all said.

Boy do I appreciate the input from ALL of you. So much to think about.

Kim

It makes me sick to think of having sex with him right now that I know for sure! In some ways, fortunately I guess, things have been really rocky since April when he told me he wasn't sure if he loved me anymore. So, as a result there hasn't been much activity in the bedroom but the thought that there has been contact since the affair started, makes me ILL.

I don't understand how I am going to get him to cease contact with her without giving him an ultimatum. Any comments on specifically how I can save my marriage without it getting to that point?

Do you know about and understand the MBer's Plans for Surviving an Affair?

It does not include giving him an ULTIMATUM...

We can help you with the MBer's Plans...

I was at your very same point, Kim..and now couldn't be happier in my marriage...

The Wayward Husband wants YOU to give him an ultimatum. That will be HIS EXCUSE to continue with the affair. As I told you earlier, the MBer's approach will not fit with your natural inclinations but this approach can definitely be effective in helping you to recover your marriage if that is what you are wanting.

What you can do to help stop the affair is to do PLAN A which involves EXPOSURE and you beginning to meet his primary emotional needs.

He probably told you that he was not "in love" with you in April because he had become involved with the OW.

Why? I just want to hear your thinking on this. Is it because of the health concerns?

Mimi,
I guess I really don't understand the Plan. If I tell him that I know about the affair, who, when and where they met recently etc. and that I want it to end. Where does the conversation go from there?

It really helps to know that you have been this route already Mimi. Sorry to be so simple about this but I really am having trouble imagining the conversation - but I am trying to create it over and over in my head.

Very sincerely, Kim. I FEEL YOUR PAIN!! Who would of thought that MY HUSBAND would have had an affair? What a SHOCKER!! And like you I thought if I just asked him to stop that he would.

Kim, when I actually found THEM at the motel, he came to the door in his boxers and said to me: "I'M ENDING IT RIGHT NOW"..that's how useless conversations about this can be..I caught him in THE ACT and HE LIED STRAIGHT TO MY FACE..and he continued to LIE..for the WS, ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS....

As I said to you before, it becomes ALL ABOUT YOU..focus on what YOU CAN DO..not on WHAT YOU CAN MAKE HIM DO...it's a play on words but it's an important distinction...

The CONVERSATION will be YOU saying.."I KNOW YOU ARE HAVING AN AFFAIR..speaking YOUR TRUTH, regardless of what HE SAYS..cause HE WILL LIE and you CAN'T BELIEVE HIM..he is no longer your real husband right now..see him as under A SPELL...

Then, proceed with PLAN A...

It's all spelled out in the book SURVIVING AN AFFAIR by Dr. HARLEY..get yourself a copy ASAP..or read up on PLAN A here...

I've got to run now but I'll be back later...

I will quote Mulan here...

Ultimatums are an effort to control someone else's behaviour.

Boundaries are all about controlling your own behaviour and usually involve removing yourself from, or refusing to participate in, a negative/harmful situation.

If he will not stop screwing around, enforce your boundary. You cannot control him...only you. The difference can appear subtle...but bottom line is, do not enable his affair or cake eating. he cannot have you both at the same time...personal boundary.

I answered you hurriedly.

There IS a CONVERSATION that I had with my H REPEATEDLY. It goes something like this: "I know you are having an affair. I want to recover our marriage. I want to the chance to show you that I can make the changes necessary for us to have a happy marriage. That's what I can do. I'm asking you to do your part and end your affair....

These aren't the EXACT words..but the point is, take responsibility for what YOU can do and tell him what you would like for HIM to do...and MOST IMPORTANTLY, let him know that YOU want HIM and the MARRIAGE.

That's what was true for ME. I never wanted a DIVORCE. I wanted MY MARRIAGE. THAT WAS MY CHOICE and I'm aware that's not the choice for everyone. I made that clear to my H from the very beginning.

The OW HATED THAT..She wanted me to GIVE UP and LET HER HAVE HIM and there was a large part of him that still LOVED ME..and he couldn't negate that...although he did FEEL LIKE he was in love with her..

Do you see how easy it is FOR THEM if you JUST SAY.."END THE AFFAIR OR ELSE?"

You have to add in the part: "I LOVE YOU AND WANT YOU"...

There's gonna be a little man inside his head saying: "Why she have to say that when I was just getting ready to leave her?"

I'm recalling my H saying: "Why are you saying this stuff NOW?"..when it's "too late" (interpreted to mean: "when I am in so deep already with somebody else" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />)

It took awhile but I had to help him see that it wasn't too late...

Thanks Mimi for all the specifics, it is what I needed to hear. I know my husband is going to be angry at being discovered and I'm not sure how that is going to present itself. I thought I knew him before, so I can't speculate with any certainty what he will do in this situation.

I just don't want to get lost in those moments of denial and anger, get caught up in saying either you end it or you will lose the boys and I along with the wonderful life that we have built together etc.

I think that I need to keep it simple during the exposure - telling him that I know etc. and telling him what I need him to do (end it and re-focus on the boys and our marriage). That will probably be enough for the moment I expect.

I really think that I want to give this a try and see if we can come out the other side with a much better, stronger marriage. However, the longer I live with the realization and my anger about the whole situation, the more I am thinking about the behaviours and characteristics that are not my favourites in him.

I am moving forward with saving my marriage but I think that his reaction and behaviour as a result of the exposure will play a big part in what the future holds for our family - sad but true. Not giving up though!

Kim,

Wait, wait, wait!

I noticed you said you didn't really know the Plan. You need to study up on this.

Also, you need to expose to EVERYONE. It sounds to me like you think you are only supposed to expose to your H. That is what I'm getting from your last couple of posts.

Is that correct?

Here is Michele G's first post to me. It is full of great info:

Charlotte

This is a journey now and here's the beginning.

Your WH:
Is having an A (either EA or PA or both)
He will lie
He will wonder how much you know
He will want to cake eat as long as possible
He is having needs met by both of you
As long as he is allowed to continue, he will

This is your part:
Time to expose the A to OWH again and any family member or friend that may have influence over him

Read this:

The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A

The carrot of Plan A


Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.

Making "home" a warm and inviting place to be.

Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.

Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.

Stop lovebusting behaviors.

Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.

Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.

Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.

Offering forgiveness and understanding.



The stick of Plan A


Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.

Not appologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.

Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.

Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.

Let the consequences of adultery and infidelity fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.

Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to effect children of the marriage, financal security of the marriage, and otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.

Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slayed for the good of the family.


Exposure is your strongest weapon against the A. Use it, and use it wisely. Do not tell him that you are going to do it, just do it. Expect more anger. Your M can survive his anger, but it cannot survive if he remains a WS.

Start a good plan A. If you can call the Harleys for advice. Read Surviving an Affair. You will learn the dynamics of affairs. They are all pretty much the same. The WS use the same script.

Your WH will try to rewrite history and put you in a bad light. He is trying to justify his actions to himself. He is probably addicted to the feelings of the A, not the OW. She could be anyone.

He has weaknesses that he did not protect. It is a slippery slope.

Keep coming here. Read, read, read.

--------------------
BW(me)
Together 26 yrs/M 20 yrs
EA DDay 4/28/05
PA DDay 6/11/05
In recovery
Spying 101
My Story Part 1
My Story Part 2-The A Ends

kim,

wouldn't it be a better approach to tell him that you know about the affair and that you love him and want to work on your marriage but that you will NOT accept a third person in your marriage.

It'll probably get over to him better, if you do not tell him what to do. He's going to do what he wants to anyways and if you tell him what he is to do or what you want him to do, that might turn out to be the opposite.

You tell him loud and clearly that you will NOT accept a third party in your marriage.

But make it clear to him that you love him and that you want to work on your marriage and you want to do all in your power to make it a success but NOT with OW.

Then it will be up to him to do what he wants to. I wouldn't get myself involved into anymore relationship talks........he's in the fog. Don't trust anything that he says right now. He's got the devil in him. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Then stick to Plan A...............give him all the reasons you know of, to get him thinking and longing for you. You know him better than any OW, remember that. Fill up his love bank without appearing needy.

Plan A is meant to break the affair.......Plan A is there to give him reasons to want to be with you and to see that the "grass isn't greener" on the other side.

Stay calm and for your sake, don't demand anything from him right now..........don't educate him about anything. You are nowhere near to that right now.
hugs
bb

Thanks Ladies!

As far as I can tell she is single. She doesn't have a spouse that I can expose the affair to. She lives a long way away. There are only 2 relatives that come up on any searches that I do - most likely her parents.

Are you suggesting that I tell him to leave the house until the affair is over???????

I can tell his parents about the affair but they are quiet, unassuming people and are very unlikely to confront him (as much as I believe they will be VERY disappointed. I have a good relationship with them and they love our boys)

He has one European friend (they are very family oriented) but really no other buddy's to speak of.

Then there is her work and his.

Kim,

I'm sorry.............I've been following your story as well as someone elses and I mixed up the fact that your husband is still living at home...... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> Please forgive me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

No don't tell him to leave the house!!!!!

bb

No, don't ask him to leave the house. It is difficult to Plan A when he is not in the house. Do tell him that you do not accept three people in your marriage, just as blond blossom describes. Get your plan together regarding the exposure targets--OW's parents, both places of work, your H's parents, your family--all people who will help you buil your marriage. Draft your exposure letters to the places of work. Plan out what you are going to say on the phone or e-mail to the other exposure targets. Decide how you are going to handle the hotel stay--are you going to go there with a friend, are you going to send a private eye? Get your plan together and then----IMPLEMENT your plan. You have no control over your H's reaction to you plan. But you really need to put your plan together.

Hopefully you have read enough and can now just focus on your plan. I hope you are not still planning on going out of town while they are together. Best to you.
Lake