Thanks frozen your correct. I know I shouldnt but I let her angry words shoot me down and upset me.

I wonder if I should even make contact with her day to day? Should I just completely let go of her? I know its our normal reaction as humans not to do that to someone we love so much cause I am truly afraid she will take it im not willing to change and she will move on, i really think she will in that case.

What I need is a direction, I know in these paragraphs yall type to me is direction, but I get confused at times.

Can someone give me advice on what do to here? Like straight forward advice. I feel at times I should just not call her and not check up on her cause she will just say 2 words and bye.

But its so hard that the person youve always been with and done every single thing with since High School, to just forget about. I think the thing that really troubles me is her going out with her friends to bars and stuff.

I know this is my mess and I tell her im sorry everytime I talk to her. I will do everything to clean up.

Sorry my posts seem a little selfish and make me seem like a needy or wanting person, just having a very frustrating week.

I need help with my direction. Like a straight forward plan of what I need to do.


Sorry this post seems choppy and all ive had a long tiring day and im fixing to go to bed, im wore out!


One thing I do not mean to do is make manipulations when I talk with my wife or post on here. Maybe I need help with the way I word things? I dont make manipulations on purpose, I guess its the instinct we have when we're scared we are going to lose something. Im so ready to work on myself and I need a little direction at this point on what exactly I should start doing. Something in the lines of this....

-Do this
-Do that
-Do this
-Do that....I think maybe I could understand a little easier when its just listed out like that, dont get me wrong, I love reading the paragraphs but when it comes to knowing exactly what I need to be doing and not doing, listing it out helps me understand a little better.


Thank you all so much for caring so much about me and my relationship with myself and my beautiful wife. Would you guys wanna see a pic? Dunno why I asked that LOL, but I been looking at pics of us.


Again, God Bless.

Morning bump, at work...Hope you all are having a good day!

Okay, here is some direction - figure out and let us know WHY you decided to risk your marriage by cheating.

I think I risked it cause,

I didnt take marriage seriously,

I think my past cheating caused a hostile attitude between us both and you could always sense tension.
I refused to help myself and our relationship,
I was very stubborn.
I also wasnt scared to lose her, I ran over her for a long time.
At the time of the A, I really wasnt sure If I wanted to be with her cause we fought alot because of ME, because I wasnt a good husband to her.

Theres a start. And thats why Im here and going to counsling so I can make myself a better husband for my wife and to change my wicked ways.

Those are some of the things that you can work on. Why didn't you take marriage seriously? Why not just date?

And now you ARE scared to lose her. But what will keep you from going back to your old ways if you don't?

See, a lot of these things are character issues.

I guess I just didnt realize how serious marriage really is and what exactly what it and she means to me. I guess I wasnt ready to settle down, like we both said, we got married because we loved eachother and we both thought getting married would erase our past.

I have truely learned my lesson, and in 4 years ive never been scared to lose her or have I ever thought she would get up to leave, and I guess thats a reson ive always ran over her and done whatever I want. Seriously, in times of our relationship, I told myself..."I wish I was scared to lose her".

"I feel at times I should just not call her and not check up on her cause she will just say 2 words and bye."

This is another quote from you where you reveal that your recovery efforts are for your own benefit. She most likely senses that what you say or do for recovery is motivated by your expectation that it will pay off for you.

So what if she just says 2 words and bye?

You are not at this time entitled to ANYTHING from her!
If she even ANSWERS the phone when she sees an incoming call is from you she has GIVEN you something you in no way deserve. If you will not acknowledge that fact, and show appreciation for that, why should she say more than two words to you, or even say 'bye', before hanging up on you?

You keep posting about 'ALL' you are saying and doing, and then how her response is a disappointment to you. You're whining about how what you percieve as some valiant sustained effort on your part is not getting the immediate results you want.

Dude, she might NEVER return to you. And IF she does it will be in large part because she has shown you undeserved grace and forgiveness. AND it will take a LOT more effort on your part, over a very long time, and WITHOUT your whining and complaining. Continue to ignore those facts and you will lose her forever. Continue to fail to give her any credit for even answering her phone when you call and she will stop doing ALL she is doing to even consider giving you another chance.

You are so focused on what you want and on how 'much' you are doing to get what you want, and on how 'little' that is paying off for you...that you don't even see what she is going through and what she is putting up with just to keep the possibility of recovery an option.

If I found out my WXH was posting someplace like this, complaining about 'ALL' he was doing, whining about how I wasn't responding quickly or positively enough for his efforts, I would immediately raise the price to admission back into my life!

NO WOMAN wants to think that a man only wants her if he can get her cheap and/or quick. When you betray a woman you effectively tell her that you believed the OW to be worth more than her, to be worth risking losing her. She will need to be convinced that she means more to you than all the OW combined.

If you whine or complain about something that you do for recovery efforts, it doesn't count. If you expect ANYTHING in return, let alone some immediate positive result for your efforts, it doesn't count. If you hold back in any way and only give what you have to when you have to, it won't count. If you give even the slightest hint of frustration or disappointment based on entitlement or expectation, it won't count. Basically you may as well be doing nothing - NOT because your BW is expecting too much or never will be satisfied - but because your motives are not sincere and she knows that.

You should call your BW because of concern for how she is feeling, because you want to help her heal from what you did to her, and for NO OTHER REASON. Even if she only says two words and then 'bye', even if she doesn't even answer the phone, it's the RIGHT THING for you to do FOR HER.

Thank you, that post made me sit and realize a lot of what I was doing wrong and all. My posting here and what I do say to her is different though, not sure if yall knew that. When I talk to her, I dont get frustrated or ask for anything and I do call to make sure shes alright, I make sure I dont whine. I know my reaction is to gripe and whine, I guess thats why when I get frustrated I get on here and do it, instead of doing it to her.

Your right, I ought to call and make sure shes doing alright and accept the fact that she is actually answering the phone when I call, weather she says 2 words or tells me she loves me. I guess the mixed emotions from her bother me, but I need to take the good with the bad. I mainly post about our conversations out of my frustration and my panicing. I know I need to just be happy she atleast answers the phone when I do call.

This is precisely the point, Zach.

Why not be genuine?

It isn't your BEHAVIOR that needs changing. It's your THINKING.

If your thinking was not flawed or selfish, you wouldn't even consider being upset with her because she isn't doing or responding how you would like.

You seem very focused on how something 'sounds', rather than what it actually is. The lack of sincerity and remorse still leaks out anyway. It does here and I'll bet it does to her also.

THAT is why I agree with noodle - that you are not capable at this time of doing what it takes to change. You are focused more on how to make it appear as though you've changed, rather than actually changing.

IMO, it's a waste of effort. If you were to use the same amount of energy that you are expending in your attempt to try to make it appear as though you have changed into actually changing...you might actually get somewhere.

Ok I understand where your coming from now. I am acting despret and wanting her to say stuff to make me feel better correct? Ive never really thought of it this way, im thankful to have you guys here to help me out and kick me back in reality.

Your exactly right, I dont need to get upset or down because she doesnt react how I like her to, I will keep this in my head and work on this. I really do want to become and genuine person, please continue helping me and giving me direction on how I should change myself.

Well im off of work now and im sitting at home and for the first time in a while I feel like going out and doing something tonight, but I dunno what I want to do?

I know I dont need to go out with my friends cause they are all single and I know will want to go to a club or something in that matter, and I dont think that would make my W very happy.

Im just kinda stuck sitting here at home cause everyone of my friends all hang out together and they go to clubs ect.? I dunno what do to and when I do go out shes on my mind all the time, I know she wont call me and I worry about what shes doing, and if I do call her I feel like im bothering her.

I hate sitting here at home everynight by myself. I dont want go to out with others cause I wanna do everything possible not to put me in the situations I use to be in. Theres not a whole lot to do where I live.

But at the same time, she goes out with her friend and brother to bars? But I dont say anything about that.


Just stuck in the middle to what to do. The only thing I look forward to every week is church on sunday and wednesday, its like the only other activity I have.

Anyone have any suggestions on this?

I agree with Frozen:

It is not your behavior that needs to change but your thinking that needs to change.

The advice given here is for the purpose of rebuilding marriages that have been damaged by adultery.

There is the possibility that the advice given here can be exploited by a WS who is not truly repentent, not really ready to change; you want us to give you a list of specific things to say and do to try to convince your BW that you are sincere...

At some point I stopped trying to tell/teach my WXH what he needed to say/do in order to get another chance with me. I realized that all I was doing was teaching hom how to be a better con artist without having to REALLY change himself into a better man.

So instead of us giving you a list of things to say and do to try to convince your wife of anything, why don't YOU give us a list of things you are saying and doing, and what you would not be willing to say and do? And along with that list provide your reason for saying/doing each thing on the list.

I noticed in one of your posts you said something about never before worrying that you would ever lose your wife. I think that is more evidence of your sense of entitlement. If you felt entitled to your wife you wouldn't value or appreciate her much. And you would probably describe having to say or do anything to try to keep her as doing a LOT... It seems as if each time you do something, such as give her a call, you expect something in return from her.

If you knew right now that your wife was going to divorce you and nothing you said or did would change that, what would you STILL be willing to say or do? ONLY the items remaining on that list are the things which you say/do genuinely, unselfishly. Everything else you are doing, because you hope it will pay off for you, is fake and your wife suspects as much.

I'd love to hear a truly honest answer to this.

Thus far, I've seen you simply regurgitating the comments people are making.

People are not saying very nice things about you. Does that not make you angry?

I'd love to read a post from you that was really, really sincere, rather than have how you really feel "leak" out in your posts.

God can't heal what you won't allow anyone to see.

As far as your sitting home alone. You're feeling sorry for yourself because you "can't" go to bars???

You know what? You CAN go to bars. If that's really what you would prefer to do, that choice is yours to make.

If you are choosing not to go to bars because you feel it is damaging to your marriage...OWN THAT CHOICE.

If recreational companionship is what you crave, there are ways to meet that need that don't involve other women and inhibition-reducing alcohol.

Do you have family?
Do you have male acquaintances at the church you've been attending? If not, initiate some friendships there.

If all your friends go to bars...make NEW ones.

You sound like a grounded teenager.

I understand you may think im trying to con my wife to be back with me, I really do feel my changes and what I say in very sincere, I really do meremortal, I mean what am I susposed to to do or say to you to make you think otherwise, your not going to believe me either way.

Not saying everything I do or say is right, usually the things I do wrong is out of frustration which I shouldnt do, its just human nature.

Ill be more than happy to give you a list of things im saying and doing.

I havent spoke with her much today, Ive kinda gave her space today.

10am- Called her, she answered. I say good morning, she says hey. Silence, I say..."What are you doing"...She says, "Going to amy's (her friend shes obsessed with) to eat breakfast."

Me- "oh that sounds fun"
Her- "yep"
Silence...
Me-"Did you sleep good last night?"

Her-"Pretty good" (While yawning) So i laughed and pointed that out

Me-"well I hope you have a good day, I was just calling to tell you good morning and check on you"

Her-"ok, have a good day"

Me-"Ok, I love you bye bye"

Her-"bye"


Called her earlier around 1- She was in the car going to amys family's house. I just told her hey and I guess ill let her go since shes riding in the car with them and all.


Called her when I got off of work @ 4:30/

Me- "hey how are you"

Her- "Ok"

Me- What are you doing

Her-Smoking a cig.

(She started smoking when we split up, and she knows how bad I hate smoking)

Me- Ohh ok...I was just making sure your ok

Her- ok

Me- (She noticed I got frustrated, I quickly said ok bye) I know I did wrong there, I let my emotions take over me

She txts me right when I hung up.... "Mature after that Sh*t you did to me"

I replied- Sorry.

7pm- Sent her a pic of us in a txt of our honeymoon.



That was about all our conversation tonight so far, I was planning on not callin her and leaving her alone for the rest of the night.


Your right...I didnt appreciate her as my wife, I realize that now and it eats me up everyday that I didnt.

Your also right again, i do seem to feel something in return, Im trying to work on this, I understand that is very selfish of me.

If I knew my wife was going to divorce me, I would still fight for her and work to become a better husband anyway for her. 2 1/2 months ago, she told me to my face on her porch that "we're over" I couldnt sleep or eat for weeks and i was dying, BUT I still fought for her and I still am. So I can say ive fought for her even though she told me it was over, now shes in "i dont know".



Hope this may clear some stuff up. Thank you for your help Meremortal. I really appreciate it. I understand your being harsh for a reason, I thank you and god bless you.

But im fixing to head out for the night, A friend is picking me up, im really into cars and racing, I own a 600hp car that I love to race but at the moment i have the engine out to do some extra mods.

So hes picking me up and we're going out to the racing scene tonight.

Not sure what my wife is doing, havent spoke with her.

I am truly trying to change myself and my selfish ways. Thank you all for caring enough to try and help me. I will do anything to make my wife happy.

She just sent a txt- "Did she go anywhere with you"

I reply- No and I dont want to fuss tonight

But anyway, im in a hurry and my ride is here.

Thanks everyone, ill post to your responses when I get home

I'll throw you a bone and let you know where you are getting off track.

Look at your described dialogue above.

Look at how you are trying to prod her into casual pleasant conversation.

If you sincerely believe that what you have done to her is as offensive as she says it is then what makes you think she is interested in telling you what she is doing or how her day went? Do you have any idea how WEIRD that reads? Do you have any idea how OBVIOUS your manipulations are?


Are you aware that infidelity has been compared to RAPE with regard to trauma and the effects on the BS?

That being the case perhaps you can catch a glimmer of why no one BELIEVES that you take it as serisouly as you claim when out of one side of your mouth you say.."Oh, so gravely remorsefull" and out of the other side you ask for a cookie and completely expect to receive one.

Your remorse only exists in your words..and even then only in the ones you expect to be given credit for...the accidental words you don't mean for people to assign meaning to reveal very clearly that you hate the CONSEQUENCES rather than the behavior that led to them.

Zach, I am glad to see that you're still posting here and haven't been scared off yet. Trust me, as a FWH, I KNOW the advice you're getting, the CONSTRUCTIVE criticism you're getting, is for YOUR BENEFIT.

I look back at the detestable things I did behind my DW's back, and look at it this way: I would trade, any day, having myself permanently maimed than to put my DW through the horror I put her through. I am dead serious about this...if God would only present such an offer to me, I would not think twice and take it in a heartbeat.

Or to put it another way, I would also trade NOT ever meeting my wife, NOT ever falling in love with her and spending the best years of my life with her, if I could spare her all the pain I caused her.

Would YOU be willing to make such trades???

Think about it.

In All Christian Love,
SP

Noodle...When I speak with my wife, what things should I say then? What type of conversations should be made? Im not asking for an answer on how to manipulate her, but I really am not sure what to say then?

Yes I understand its as bad as rape or losing a child.

Sad- Yes of course I would be willing to make those trades.

I would trade anything for what ive done to her. But I would have never traded anything for our memories that we share, and everything she has taught me.


Ok its 3am and im wore out. I gotta get up in a few hours for church.


Thank you.

"I mean what am I susposed to to do or say to you to make you think otherwise, your not going to believe me either way."

Not true. There are many times that FWS posts on here and I DO beleive they are truly remorseful, really ready to commit to recovery. There is a vast difference between being sincere and convincing others you are sincere. You apparently have yourself convinced you are doing a good job at convincing others of your sincerity... and are then understandably frustrated when others are still not convinced of your sincerity. BE SINCERE.

Look, you lied to us here through several posts before finally admitting that more had gone on between you and the OW than you initially admitted. THAT hurt your credibility. You act as if that lie had zero effect on your credibility. You seem to believe that credibility is DUE you, that others should start with the assumption that you are being honest and sincere, that you are somehow being judged unfairly if we are skeptical.

I'm going to ask you a question about that OW you lied to us about. You said you had a big fight with your wife and then went off to talk to that OW... um went off to 'talk to' her for a week? Later you admitted you and the OW did more than talk... I want you to tell us the whole truth about that OW now. What things had you already been thinking about and doing with that OW before that big fight? What were you and your wife fighting about? And how did that fight really get started? What purpose did that fight serve for you?

You beg for advice specifically on how to get your wife to respond the way you want her to, and on how to convince us that you are sincere. Instead you should be asking for advice on how to help your wife recover from the damage you've done to her, with OR WITHOUT you.

"If I knew my wife was going to divorce me, I would still fight for her and work to become a better husband anyway for her. 2 1/2 months ago, she told me to my face on her porch that "we're over" I couldnt sleep or eat for weeks and i was dying, BUT I still fought for her and I still am. So I can say ive fought for her even though she told me it was over, now shes in "i dont know"."

From your perspective this answer to the question I asked must seem sincere... But what you reveal in your answer is that your efforts are all for yourself - not your wife. Your ONLY goal is to keep your wife/marriage under your control. What I was asking was if you knew for certain that your wife NEVER would return to you, NEVER would give you another chance, what would you then be willing to say/do for the SOLE purpose of helping her heal from your betrayal and get on with her life WITHOUT YOU? I was NOT asking you what you are willing to do in order to get your wife to stay married to you. The answer you gave was all about you 'fighting' to keep your wife/marriage.

"Not saying everything I do or say is right, usually the things I do wrong is out of frustration which I shouldnt do, its just human nature."

Frustration comes from expectations. It is the continued evidence of your expectations that gives you away. And now, because you HAVE been told this MANY times, even if/when you stop revealing to us that you have expectations, even when you stop providing evidence that your real motivation is you hope your efforts pay off for YOU, many of us here will still doubt your sincerity BECAUSE we know that we have basically been coaching you in how to APPEAR more sincere. Amazingly, for now anyway, your true selfish motives still come through the strongest in your posts, despite having been provided already with plenty of info that could have been exploited to simply con us into believing you.

IMHO you are currently FEELING so desperate in your desire to get your wife to stop going out with her friends and to assure you that she is over what you did to her, and that she won;t divorce you, that you are single-minded in achieving those goals. You want what you want and you want it NOW. THAT is the most consistent message you are sending. Trying to convince your wife and us of your sincerity is just something you see as a hurdle you have to get over first in order to get what you want ASAP.

Zach, this is what you claim:

"I am truly trying to change myself and my selfish ways. Thank you all for caring enough to try and help me. I will do anything to make my wife happy."

Zach, this is what you do:

"She just sent a txt- "Did she go anywhere with you"

I reply- No and I dont want to fuss tonight"

So you will do ANYTHING to make your wife happy... unless it involves answering her questions about the OW, or being accountable to her, or giving her some reassurance, or delaying your plans for the evening, or 'fussing' when you don't feel like it?

Dude, your wife would be a fool to believe you are sincere.

You keep begging us to give you a list of specific things that will work to get your wife (and now us) to BELIEVE you are sincere... We are trying to tell you to BECOME more sincere.