Thanks Meremortal, I think those last 2 posts have came across me harder than any in this thread and have made me think ALOT.

Your right, I lied and I dont deserve or should except you to believe me now that I think of it.

On the OW, I now know the fight over us was because of me. Its not her fault at all. I spent time with the OW before that week we got into a fight. She was at the beach for the weekend and I spent more time with the OW. When my wife got back she suspected something happened cause I cleaned the house very well, she was right. I dont know if its all women or just my wife, but she has a instinct when it comes to these things. Yes I blew up cause I was being so defensive, and I left the house to be with the OW. I really thought I didnt wanna be with my wife anymore, I cant believe I could do something so horrible to my wife, I still dont see what possessed me to do such a bad thing to someone to sweet and has giving me everything. That week I told my wife I didnt want to be with her anymore, and to get divorce papers.

Well the OW I was with, I wasnt aware of she had "anger issues", remember I am young, her parents sent her off to a Camp in the mountains for her bahavior. The OW nor did I know this was going to happen. when I found out she was taken away from me for 2 months and I couldnt have any contact with her, nor could her parents. I was really hurt, I really started having feelings for that OW.

Well a couple of days went by and I realized my wife was at home suffering and hurting so bad crying and calling me 100 times begging for me to come home. It hit me very hard, I felt like such a horrible person, i couldnt beleive what I just did to my life, and more importantly to my beautiful wife, who has done everything for me and then I go off and do something so horrible. She went to the place to go get divorce papers, on her way there, I called her and begged for her not to , and I dont want a D. She talked with the lady there about them and they put them to the side for the time being.

Thats when all the lies started and me making up stories. My wife a week or so later after me begging for her back, told me at her house "its over" and she doesnt wanna be with me anymore. And 2 1/2 months later, here we are.


Thats basically the story. My wife never done anything for this, and I would do anything in the world to help her and make her happy. If it takes me not being with her to make her happy, then so be it. I just pray ill have the opportunity someday ill have the chance again to prove myself as a better husband to her.

Our conversation today....

Since last night I went out and she knows I came home late, she makes the assumption I went to a club.


Her txt- You go to church this morning

Me-No I was tired

Her-Stay out to late?

Me-Yes a little

Her- So did you have fun at the club?

Me-I didnt go to a club

Her- You went last night didnt you?

Me-I wouldnt do anything else to hurt you.


I havent heard anything else today.

You guys around today?

Just talked to her again, Ive been at the mud pit all day and I havent spoke with her.


She txts me and ask me where im at, I said driving home.

She calles me and says.... "Where have you been all day and last night"?

I said..."Hung out on Main. st. with friends last night with cars, and mud pit today"

She immeditly jumps me and cusses at me with a very very hateful tone saying... "well i figured you were out screwing some girl like you always do when you dont call me"


I said well im sorry but I didnt wanna bother you cause I felt like I was calling you all the time.


She jumped me again yelling saying things in a hateful tone. "well when u were with that OW you didnt call me then, so I figured you were off with someone. All of a sudden you stopped calling me so I figured that".

I told her all she had to do was pick up the phone and ask me and I would have told her what I was doing at the moment.

She kept being very very mean with a very hateful tone. Ive had a good day today and she just shot me straight into the ground.


Then she goes..."well im getting off the phone then" still very mean.


I said well... "I want you to be happy, thats all I want, if that takes you Divorcing me than so be it, if it takes you working this out then so be it, I just want you to be happy and safe". She said "ok" (still with a pissy tone)

Then she hung up....


I mean what can I do? I didnt bother her and I get jumped and get accused (which I dont blame her) but all she had to do was just ask, not get mad cause I didnt call her all the time. Thats a no win situation.


Ugh, im frustrated....Breathe

Why wait until she asks where you've been, after hours or even overnight of wondering and worrying, to tell her where you are going and with whom?

Can you think of another interpretation of her behavior besides 'pissy' or 'mean'?

What do you think she is feeling like when she is wondering where you've been?

How could YOU have handled the situation differently to have prevented her feeling scared and worried?

"I mean what can I do?"

You tell me. What can YOU DO to avoid this problem in the future?

"I didnt bother her and I get jumped and get accused."

OK here you are talking about two different things:

1) you didn't bother her with phone calls checking up on her, trying to control/monitor/pressure her

2) you didn't provide her with info about where you were and who you were with, info that could have eased her fears

# 1 might have been a positive change, unless you decreased your contact with her so much that she was worried that you were losing interest in her, punishing her with the silent treatment, or off with the OW... It's OK to contact her - just not TOO MUCH and not for selfish reasons.

# 2 definitely was not a positive change! I think if you're honest with yourself you will admit that you purposely withheld info from her that could have eased her fears. Maybe you did this to punish her for not responding positively to your efforts (expectations)? Maybe you did this because your buddies would have made fun of you if you told her where you were? Maybe you did this because in your mind you negotiated #1 for #2 without consulting her?

Whatever the reason you blew it man. I'm sure that no matter how young you are you KNEW what her reaction would be. You seriously need to decide what you want dude: Do you want to help your wife recover from your betrayal or do you want to get sympathy from others about how 'mean' she's being to you?

It might not seem fair to you, and perhaps you assumed you could negotiate one thing for the other without consulting her, but what she needs from you right now is for you to be contacting her a reasonable amount so as to reassure her and show remorse/concern WITHOUT pressuring her, AND for you to become totally transparent and accountable to her.

Now if you discuss this with your buddies I'm sure they will make fun of you and try to influence you to go out, make her worry, punish her for being 'mean'/'pissy' whatever. But you are going to have to be man enough to not care what your buddies think about you if you want to pull off even staying friends with your wife, let alone staying married to her.

Well I figured I would stop bugging her and calling her a lot like ive been doing cause I felt like i may have been bothering her. I know it would have been better if I would have just told her and leave it at that.


I understand shes hurt, but she was just angry and yes she has a right to be angry and I deserve to be yelled at.

How I think she is feeling? Truthfully its mixed....I know shes mad at the world at me, but she must care about what im doing and care about me? She must have gotten worried I went out to a club or with girls?

I could have just sent her a txt last night when I went out and told her what I was doing and who I was with and told her goodnight.


And im going to be truthful...I think my motive on me not saying anything to her last night was to see if she cared enough to ask where I was or worry.

I promise you my friends have nothing to do with my wife and my decisions. We dont talk about mine and her issues, they do know we're going through hard times, thats it...they dont know the story or whatever.When I speak with my wife I step away from them so we can be alone anyway.


I didnt do it mainly to make her suffer, I was curious to how she would react and if she cared. I also felt I was bothering her when I called. Now I know to call her time to time during the day to let her know what im doing and to make sure shes ok also.

Our convo tonight...


Shes off of work tomorrow, but shes going to bed awful early.

She sends a txt- Im going to bed.

I call her- She doesnt answer

She calls back in a few mins.....

Her- "sorry I went out to my car"

Me- "its ok"

Her- Where are you at

Me- Laying down in my bed

Her- Why arent you online (AOL Instant Messenger)

Me-Kicked me offline earlier and I about fell alseep

Her- Oh ok

Me- Well I hope you get some sleep, what are your plans tomrrow?

Her- Moving stuff with dad. (Her bed and stuff from our home, shes living with her parents and im living with mine at the moment)


Me-Oh ok, well I hope you have sweetdreams

Her- You too

Me-Goodnight, I love you

Her- Goodnight.





She said she was tired...She sounded like she was down.

It surprised me she txted me before she went to bed after her yelling earlier at me.

Okay. Try taking a step back and looking at this from a different angle.

You wanted something from her.

You manipulated her in order to get it.

You wanted to feel cared about and you accomplished it by knowingly withholding safety and transparency, in hopes that you would MAKE HER FEEL BAD so you could somehow interpret that as caring.

You knowingly put her in a position of fear for your own benefit.

Do you see this?

Then when she reacts just as you hope...you accuse her of being mean?

You KNEW that was the response that you would get. You admit you hoped you would get it.

Why are you toying with her?

Do you understand that every time you do something that causes her to feel bad, you are lessening her feelings of love for you?

Can you think of some other ways to try to get that need met that aren't destructive?

Can you think of another way to get that need met that actually gives her the CHOICE as to whether or not she wants to meet it?

Hi Zach,

One thing that really helped me is reading the stories of BSs here on these forums. It really put me in my DW's shoes, as a lot of the stories I read could have been written by her. A key in understanding the gravity of what you've done is to empathize with your wife. Once you "get it", you can truly begin to change from the inside, allowing The Lord to "renew your mind".

LA and Belluve where you guys at?


Hope all is doing well


Again, thank you all for caring enough to post and help me out.

"I promise you my friends have nothing to do with my wife and my decisions."

For somebody who seems to be very concerned about his BW's friendships, this is an odd statement IMHO. Even if this is true, can't you see that from your wife's perspective there could be fear about you going out with your friends and what they might be encouraging you to do?

"We dont talk about mine and her issues, they do know we're going through hard times, thats it...they dont know the story or whatever. When I speak with my wife I step away from them so we can be alone anyway."

So your friends think you and your wife are just going through some hard times... they have no clue that YOU CHEATED on your wife... so they probably can't understand why your wife has suddenly distanced herself from you and is acting 'mean' and 'pissy'... How nice for you.

One thing you should do to prove you are serious about helping your wife recover from your betrayal is to confess to family and friends what you did, tell them you want to do everything you can to help your wife recover, AND that you want to avoid saying/doing anything that will do further damage to your wife/marriage. THEN stay away from anybody who will not support you in doing the right thing. Stop contact with anyone who will listen to you whine or complain about your Betrayed Wife or who will encourage you to behave in ways detrimental to your relationship with your wife.

"I didnt do it mainly to make her suffer, I was curious to how she would react and if she cared."

That is cruel and selfish. Whether or not your MAIN motive was to make her suffer, you knew/HOPED it would, for the selfish reason of reassuring yourself!

"I also felt I was bothering her when I called. Now I know to call her time to time during the day to let her know what im doing and to make sure shes ok also."

You already knew this. You already knew it was wrong to call her TOO MUCH and to call her for your own selfish need to monitor and pressure her. And you already knew it was wrong to stop calling her as a form of punishment, silent treatment, or test to see if she loved you enough to be scared or worried. But you did it anyway for your own selfish reasons - NOT for her. BTW, she realizes this too. You'd best stop blowing it with your little games, dude.

K I agree, I didnt go into detail to my friends of what I did but they have a pretty good clue. I told them its not her fault, its my fault, I did wrong and I have to deal with it.

I did ditch my other friends, I left them for her cause she said they were a bad influence to me, and shes right. I dont hang out with them anymore

Her family knows very well what I did, I talk to her mother every single day. They know in Detail what i did. Her parents went through the same ordeal.



Your right i did do it cause I was selfish. I agree with you, I was wanting a reaction out of her and I got it, yes it wasnt the right thing to do.

Spoke with her this morning.

She was heading to our old house to pack a lot of her stuff and bring it to her parents house, she sounded down. I aksed her what was wrong and if she was ok. She said..."just a lot of stuff on my mind", I said ok, I understand, and told her if she needed anything just give me a call, and we got off the phone.

Ugh....


She just sent me a txt-

"Do you want this bottle of wine yall finished off"



Breathe...

Zach,

Okay...now I think you understand transparency. That's what you hold yourself to being, regardless of BW's reactions.

Means you're accountable for where you are, who you are with...what you are doing. That's about your choice to live in honesty, not manipulation.

Helps you to rebuild trust in yourself and in your marriage.

What I didn't see you doing in your conversation with her was listening and repeating. She told you she triggered hard...full of pain...and why. Acknowledge why...understandable that her trigger was you cutting off communication for a night and a morning...own it. Validate how you hear that's really scary, painful for her.

And own your own manipulative choice to see if she still cared for you. Highest honesty here...tell her. Each time you want to refute what she's saying, stop and share that "I have this urge to shoot down, change what you're saying." Breathe and then listen and repeat.

Switching your actions from manipulation to your own code isn't easy...just essential to you being who you really are. You have a lot of opportunities to practice...here, each conversation with her, your family, her family, your friends. You get to choose if you want to live in honesty and have an honest life experience, or in manipulation, and have that as your life experience.

You may fear being manipulated the most...being controlled. That fear drops off the map when you stop reacting under your own radar...when you stop choosing your words and actions based on fear. When you shift them to honesty, that's what you'll experience, instead.

Takes practice, practice, practice. Retraining your brain.

Why not come clean with your current friends, so they can BE friends of your marriage? So they don't bring other women into your sphere to salve or soothe...so they don't talk your BW down inadvertently...they can help your marriage with your boundaries...alert you when you are deceiving yourself.

They can't if they don't know, can they? Doesn't take going into detail...you share that you're are an adulterer and you want to change more than anything. You want to be the stand up guy for the rest of your life and make great choices.

See your DJ in assuming you were bugging her by calling. That's a way to lie to ourselves...it's based in fantasy, not reality. Part of how you got where you are today. When you eliminate your DJs, inside and out, you'll live in reality. You call because it's in your code to be transparent, honest, connective...to practice your listen and repeat. Trust her to tell you if she's bothered or not. She's an adult. She will tell you. Choose to believe this...make sure you listen and know what she tells you.

In your first post on this page, you identified an important component for adultery...spending time with others outside your marriage. When you don't spend time (one of Harley's rules of marriage), then you make yourself vulnerable to an A. Good to know. Right now, your thoughts are with your BW, on your own amends, on understanding that you stood to lose your BW every single day...her choice to stay married or not. Your choice to stay married or not. That wasn't a reality for you before...can you tell me why?

The more you know and understand why you did what you did, the more tools you will be aware of to protect and build a great marriage. Healthy boundaries.

Infidelity begins with lies to self...as you are now aware of...long before you take the action. Get to know your own thoughts, be more revealing to yourself, tell your brain you don't want those lies to self nor to act from them.

You wanna be clear and secure. That's what I read in your posts. Lemme know if I'm close.

Thank you for your honesty about choosing not to call to get a reaction from SLL. That's a step to higher honesty. Call yourself on your own stuff is the key to living in reality, not fantasy. Each time you get a reaction you wanted from her, you're telling your brain to manipulate, twist reality around...feeds your guilt/fear cycle. Don't hurt yourself and your marriage that way. It's the wrong direction.

LA

I guess the reason I havent told my friends is cause they dont ask or talk about it, I think they choose not to talk about it cause it might upset me. I have no fear of telling them what I did. They do deserve to know, and I will tell them. Just something I dont say out of the random you know? Like we will be talking about cars and I come out of nowhere and say "Hey I cheated on my wife". But I know ill bring up a conversation or whatever about her first.

The reason we didnt spend time together I think was cause in the past we spent 24/7 with eachother every single day and we did nothing buy lay around all the time. We didnt do any activites with eachother, that was our big problem. I guess to say I got bored with our relationship and I think thats why I seeked out going to clubs and being around others. Its like we were routine, its like i came home,ate, took a shower and went to bed. There was no spark. Thats where the problem was.

Real friends can handle you upset or not upset. Be a real friend. Thank you for telling them. I know you will because you said you will...because you have honesty in your code.

Sure, you can say it randomly...an O&H drive-by. You don't have to interject it into car talk...you know you have plenty of lapses in conversation when you hang.

"I've been lying to you guys. I cheated on my wife repeatedly...before we were married and just this summer. I'm working on saving my marriage right now."

Done.

Now you know you can plan activities...within your power, your half of the marriage to make sure you get in great RC time...that you have that EN high up on your list. You love to play with your BW...we have to choose boredom...it's not something that comes upon us like night.

There are hundreds of fun activities out there...including bonding exercises..."Seven Principles of Making Marriage Work" by Gottman has a few of them. Check it out.

Totally understand where routine, not "doing" anything feels confining. Don't overlook every conversation you had, which may have met your EN and her EN...there were sparks you chose to overlook...get to know why...how much you take for granted as you rebel against routine. How much manipulation gets you locked in...gives you a locked-in experience...it's a signal you're not acting from honesty.

Sparks can come from a single walk together...seeing new stuff together, shared experiences. Sparks come from listen and repeat...really knowing another person and being known...if her top EN is affection, coming home, taking a shower, and spending fifteen minutes giving her a massage while listening to her could give you huge loving feelings inside. Playing cards...or a board game. Focusing on being present, not on lack, and really hearing the miracle that is your partner. Sharing the miracle you are.

From choice, awareness and focus.

Reading aloud to each other...foot massages...sharing a joke a day you found really funny...hearing about daily goals and lifetime goals...all that Harley suggests...and NOT locking down the image you have of your partner and thinking you know her. She's new every single day.

So are you.

One evening can be taken up just by listing all the wants in your lives right now...and POJA'ing how to do those...and celebrating each other...and each others' presence.

Even household chores can be shared, talked about, points of connection. What you're working on inside you, shared, makes it an experience in your marriage.

Have you taken the EN questionnaire for yourself? For your BW? Do this to the best of your ability...and fill out the LB questionnaire as if you were your BW. Identify for awareness, for what you choose not to do anymore...not you, really...learned stuff you no longer want to do.

Often, when routine mind-numbs us, we're hiding from reality. We want to feel safe more than alive. Up to us to know we're alive, vulnerable, real and that we exist...and to identify and know what we really want...and to act on it. Doesn't get in the way of others' choices...they choose.

We make sparks, Zach, in ourselves. You're experiencing right now, I believe, how much sparks you overlooked, snuffed out, or erased that were there. Because your BW isn't there with you now.

Have you thought about all the ways you cut out love from your life yet?

LA

Love that post LA. I see all I have missed out on my marriage, and I wish I could have went back and do it differently, I know now what all I need to do and change if we get back together in the future or in another relationship.

I just spoke with her, after she sent that hateful txt message she called my work and I told my secretary to take a message. I knew she probably wanted to say mean things to me since shes there. I figured I would give her 15 mins or so to cool off before I spoke with her.

I called her and she said she had some of my sutff sat to the side I needed to come get, I said ok thats fine.

She got quiet. Her tone was very soft. I asked... "Are you ok?"

She said "im getting better"...I said "ok, if you need anything lemme know, I love you"

She said "ok"

I said "ok talk to u later,love you bye"

She said "bye".


I can tell she was either crying or about to break down when i was speaking with her, her tone was very soft, I know its very hard to be over there with her after all the bad memories, and since the last time we both were there was the week we had the blow up and the same week I brought the OW into our home.

Hey now...you're seeing what you are changing right now to be and experience who you really are...that's right now...not in the future. What you cherish now, you'll cherish in your marriage. I believe you're learning now how to cherish and act from love.

I don't see you choosing to discern her truth from the truth or your truth. You want to learn about reality, or continue to live in fantasy?

You're manipulating again. You assumed what she was going to say, called it mean, and cut it out of your knowledge. You don't know. You can't know. Unless you take her calls, hear her stuff...repeat what you hear...then you've disconnected and manipulated her again, haven't you? And yourself?

Hard for her to be there with the memories...bad and good...her dreams, what she thought was reality and wasn't...feeling erased, wiped out of existence because of your choices. Really tough. Full of pain.

I'm glad you're getting rid of the home you brought OW into. Think hard on replacing people...back then, you were at the point that maybe your DW wasn't the one for you. Maybe someone else was. That means you believe in replacing people.

Which means you believe you can be replaced.

Maybe even should be.

Check that belief. If you fix problems from the outside...replacing things, people, situations...then your belief is you're nothing, isn't it?

That's a pain-making belief...in you, about you. Says you're powerless, not important or significant. Says to yourself you gotta be fixed by who you're with, not who you are.

LA

Hi Zach,

LA's doing a wonderful job with you. I have nothing to add.

I know this whole thing is painful. But I see that with the grace of God, you found a place where people believe in marriage.

LA your posts just make me say wow, and teach me so much, you do amaze me!

Your right I did assume what she was going to say. I apologize I was at work and didnt really want to get upset with her over the phone cause I deal with the public and if im in a bad mood while im working I will not perform well.

Yes the house thing is very tough, it was crazy tough for me so i couldnt imagine how she feels. We both agreed if we get back together we will move into another house!

That last statement is correct. Good call.


I spoke with my counsler/preacher bout 30 mins ago, and he was going to call her here soon and see if she wants to come in and see him today. I hope so! Everytime she speaks with him she seems to feel a little bit better.