"Then carry on the discussion without any disrespectful judgments. Just know that criticizing someone else’s perspective because it is currently different than yours will not be tolerated."

Interesting....

LadyLayla:

You had an opportunity to answer my question about your posting name.. but you didn't. You waited until you could imply some sort of insult I'd made about you regarding it before you responded. THAT is the sort of thing you do that is causing the problems here. Your apparent goal is to complain about people attacking you. You ignore all civil attmpts to communicate with you unless/until you can twist it to suit your agenda (of accusing the regular posters here of being bullies).

Recently another poster, who actually seemed to be defending you, asked you a simple question. The question was not offensive in any way. But you responded as if he was attacking you. That was another example of what the regular posters here are reacting to. It's the game you play and the way you play it.

IMHO you know full well how to behave here in a way that will not cause conflicts. You have been given opportunities to participate in civil, relevent, positive ways here. You prefer playing the victim instead and stirring up trouble.

BTW, I won't resort to name-calling with you and I won't whack you with a 2X4 either... persist in your pretenses and I'll drop a log cabin treehouse on your head. I have oodles of experience in dealing with somebody a LOT more skilled @ game-playing than you are: my WXH.

Ya know what MM
It's gone way beyond name calling and I am more than geniunely offended.

I am extremely angry !!!

And I have saved the relevant threads to my computer.

*********************EDIT******************

Hi PenaltyKill: (hockey?)

I wasn't intending to imply anything negative about LadyLayla's posting name, just acknowledging that it would make sense for somebody employed in the porn industry to be motivated to interfere with marriage building. It IS a possibility after all.

"My point about namecalling is best illustrated using BA. She starts out giving bad advice. Several posters respond with better advice, and reasons why her advice is not so hot. That's excellent, and it most likely encourages the initial poster to bone up on MB principles. All to the good. Original poster is educated, posters in conflict with BA look reasonable and intelligent.

But what happens when BA is called out in a thread, insulted, belittled, and called names by several posters? It may actually generate sympathy for BA, the underdog, and cause the original poster (and other lurkers) to think, "Hey, these posters that seemed so smart, and gave me such sound advice, well, now they're starting to look a bit juvenile. Maybe their advice isn't so great after all". That's not good."

Well between the two scenarios you descried there were people who tried to communicate to Best Advisor that the advice he/she was giving was in fact not the best. The original poster persistently (and yes suspiciously) fails to learn anything to make them a better advisor OR better yet to acknowledge they should stop referring to themselves as Best Advisor until they actually learn something helpful to pass on. Very recently Best Advisor posted something about how people here can rely on him/her to replace a more veteran poster who was retiring. This was AFTER several atttempts, yes some uncivil, BUT also many civil, were made to inform Best Advisor that their advice wasn't best. Yet Best Advisor persists in a negative, suspicious agenda, unwavered by attempts to educate them about MB principles and valid concerns expressed about the negative influence they might have. It is not inappropriate or even paranoid to interpet Best Advisor's intent therefore as being non-positive.

Good morning everyone!

Does anyone know what happended to the thread I started last night asking Ladylayla if she was running a porn site? I know she never directly answered the question before I went to bed last night. Did Justuss remove the thread?

Yes, the thread has been removed and LL did answer the question with a "no."

Steve Harley was quoted here earlier in the thread....well, from his same post there is also this...



Now, my understanding of this is that SH has delegated this authority to the moderators.

Hi MM:


Bingo! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Talking about usernames, when I first began posting, one poster took me to task for having such a "harsh" name. She was obviously not a hockey fan, and when I explained the origin of my username she said she felt a bit silly. She became one of my favorite posters, but she's not here anymore. Hopefully that's a good sign!

Well, I think that BA has shot herself in the foot more than once. I thought that Bob Pure in particular explained things very plainly to her, but I have a feeling that he may as well have been speaking to a brick wall. I think that BA's posts and attitude speak for themselves - the reluctance to share even a teeny bit of background and the redonculous user id are simply frosting on the cupcake.

I just hate to see threads devolve into namecalling and personal attacks. I know that posters here can be better than that, and I would appeal to the "better angels of their nature". I don't believe that there is any virtue in attacking people for their beliefs, even if they are radically different from yours (not you, personally MM). The virtue lies in making a better argument using the facts at hand.

PK

Thanks Medc.

So, she answered with a direct "no" hunh? I know she was upset and said "she couldn't believe I would ask her that". Why wouldn't I? I don't want advice from someone who runs a porn site, so I thought I'd ask.

Did the thread get out of hand? Or was my comment about her coming back with a different name enough to remove the thread?

Ladylayla.......if you're not running a porn site, my apologies.

FamilyComesFirst:

"MM... why do you care that much about why she chose Layla? YOU went so far as to insinuate she's a porn star. THAT is the sort of thing YOU do that causes problems here."

Actually my reason for asking about her posting name was merely curiousity about the song by the same name. I didn't know until recently that song was about adultery. It upsets me because I really like that song but now can't enjoy listening to it anymore because of what I know now. I was wondering if she knew that about the song yet and maybe would want to change her posting name if she did. She didn't tell us why she chose that name or what it repesented to her. She waited until after somebody else - (not me) brought up a POSSIBLE negative explanation for her posting name to accuse me of evil intent in asking about her posting name and THEN (and only then) she chose to explain it was her cat's name. (BTW, my first thought was how glad I was that I had not named one of my cats - or one of my daughters - Layla! Again, because knowing now that the song was inspired by an adulteress I would be upset.) My purpose for asking was twisted by her. Yet another example of what the regular posters here see as a suspicious M.O. on her part.

I made no accusation in reference to her name or insinuation. My comment about the porn site with the same name merely pointed out the fact that it is a possibility that people employed in the porn industry might have a motive to interfere with sucessful marriages. I didn't bring up the porn site called LadyLayla or say that I thought she had any connection to it. I didn't knwo such a site even existed. I stated a fact, that is still a fact - false acusations made against me regarding tha statement of that fact are just that - false.

"See, it's that easy to turn it around."

Yes, it is, and THE problem is that these recent newcomers here to MB's have this annoying trait in common - to take everything said to them and twist it to pretend they've been attacked. They persist in posting in the most suspicious manner they can imagine and then cry foul when people are suspicious of them. This EVENTUALLY resulted in name-calling, which I have not participated in BTW... the pre-existing problem: the problem-causing posting of those in question still remains and still needs to be dealt with.

"persist in your pretenses and I'll drop a log cabin treehouse on your head. I have oodles of experience in dealing with somebody a LOT more skilled @ game-playing than you are: my WXH."

"Are you threatening her now????"

Only in the sense that destructive game-playing can and will be dealt with, as it should be. This is a site for ending adultery and recovering marriages. Trolls have the whole internet to go trolling amongst. If they are not really here to help end adultery and save marriages then yes, they should be confronted until they: stop posting in a destructive manner giving unsound advice and fueling feuds, go away, or get banned. If 2X4's and even inappropriate name-calling hasn't gotten rid of them yet, OR motivated them to stop posting in a destructive manner, what do you suggest as a remedy? (And remember the name-calling in response to the problems they came here to start is not THE problem I am referring to.) The employment of 2X4's here is to help people break free of their adultery-promoting-fog. That is acceptable here and is not the same as name-calling or personal attacks. My style is a bit more industrial strength, yet WELL WITHIN the posting guidelines here. If the foggy-thinking and game-playing persists, and they are not banned, IMHO it's time to stop playing cat & mouse with them, lay down the 2X4's, and loosen the pulley on that log cabin treehouse.

Now before you assume anything negative about the log cabin treehouse let me assure you it's appeared here before, did not involve name-calling, and when not effective at changing a fogger or trolls posting, at least makes them think twice before polluting this site with more of their garbage. All it is really is confronting them with what they need to be confronted with - the truth. And making it VERY clear they aren't going to get away with their lies here.

BTW, why do you think they persist in posting here with bad advice and pretty much nothing but feuding? Why do you think they complain they are being 'abused' but still remain? What do you think their agenda is? They have already provided plenty of evidence that it is NOT to help stop adultery and save marriages. If they keep doing what they're doing the only logical conclusion is the result is exactly what they intended to get.

Hi Mopey:

Yeah, she said: no, she's not connected to that porn site with the same name as her posting name here. Now she's pretending that my statement of a fact, that it is a possibility that people employed in the porn industry are capable of, and might be motivated to interfere with a sight that helps fight adultery and save marriages, is an example of me supposedly bashing her... I think she's even insinuationg that it was me who brough up the porn site in the first place, or that it was the motive of my asking about her posting name...the game-playing plays on...

The real paradox is that these posters seem very eager to read offensive intent into whatever we post to them, even those of us who have never called them a single name, while too coincidentally persisting in posting in things that are sure to cause conflict here.

Really a LOT of what people have tried to get them discuss is quite normal and civil stuff to be asked here. But they typically respond as if it's rude of us to ask them ANYTHING! My reason for asking about the posting name was innocent - but before I was given the explanation that it was her cat's name the info about the porn site was posted here. I was not given the benefit of the doubt about my reason for asking about the posting name and my simple agreement of the fact was exploited as an excuse to feign offense at my 'attack'.

SHEESH!!! I can certainly understand the frustration that led some of the regulars here to feel so frustrated that they lost their cool and started name-calling.

Thanks MM.

I don't know why she would blame you. It is VERY obvious that I am the one who asked her if she was connected to a porn site. Heck, I even started a thread to get the answer from her. I wonder if the moderators can check her URL address and somehow find out if she really is on the up and up. Because for now, I'm not so sure I trust her.

Sorry Ladylayla. I'll feel bad for putting you through this if you are on the up and up.

BTW MM.......I love all of your posts that I have read lately. Not just this thread but others, especially where serial adultery is concerned. You have given me some stuff to think about.

In the spirit of attempting to make a "better argument using the facts at hand" and to make this about infidelity and marriage building I have the following question for Layla.

You stated:



You also stated something quite similiar in the now gone thread that I meant to copy and paste about defending people from abuse.

actually a little birdie sent it to me:




Doesn't this seem disingenuous to you??

You get up in arms about peoples treatment on these boards. People who show up voluntarily and who at any point can simply turn their computer off. Mere words on a discussion board. You are soooo concerned with the behavior here that "should not be tolerateed in marriage" while at the same time:

1. tolerate ACTUAL BEHAVIOR of the utmost destruction and abuse done by your adulterous BIL to your very sister.

2. tolerate and accept your BIL's marriage to his OW

3. defend posters on MB whom have chosen to continue to lie to their BS about the name of their adultery partner.

4. criticize and disagree with exposure when IRL you supposedly stand up to bullies and abusers (aren't WS's the ultimate bullies and abusers)

5. Criticize and disagree with snooping when you'd think you would be a champion of discovering the truth and exposing bullies and abusers for what they are

6. Critcize and disagree with talking to children about adultery and providing them the truth so they can learn and adapt necessary life skills to handle bullies and abusers instead of learning to hide the truth.

7. Allow yourself to do the very same thing you protest about by attacking, abusing, defaming, bullying and ridiculing MEDC on the gone thread?

There are hundreds of actual victims that show up here every day that NEED help and HAVE been severely "badly treated" yet you overlook their pain and choose, most often, to merely post criticism of others advice and intolerance of ACTUAL injustices.

The ultimate question is why?

Your stated intent above just doesn't hold water with me.

Why lurk for 3 or 4 years?

For the most part, as I recall....you are "defending" and standing up for foggy thinkers.

Why are you misplacing your stated sympathies.


This is where I find myself speculating about you. It's clearly foggy wayward thinking to me and others. It's just so contradicting there MUST be an explanation. The simpliest is often the most likely but I don't want to debate that.

Instead:

Lets discuss why it is you think exposure, snooping and telling children is soooo very wrong.

Let's discuss what we can about your marriage that is the problem and make it better.

You've finally started revealling yourself and I know it's difficult but you don't need to lurk any longer...spit it out. Whatever it is that's kept you here obviously thinking foggy. It's an annonymous board. We can't ACTUALLY hurt you (or anybody) no matter what it is if it's anything that bad at all.

Mr. Wondering

p.s. - of course, I will likely be seen an disingenuous too, but you've been here long enough to KNOW otherwise. If you feel I am disingenuous...WHY? I've help countless people on these boards and IRL with their marital problems with my free time. Why can't we help you?

Just FYI: I started this thread with the intention of calling BA out and AWAY from a thread where she was posting very harmful advice to a newbie and to ask hard questions that she still has yet to answer-- in writing. Her silence is answer enough for me.

LadyLayla:

"I am extremely angry !!!"

Why? I have just as much right to feel offended and angry as you do for the false accusations and insunuations you're making about me, for your pretense that my sole intention is to offend or attack you. Sheesh! Calm down.

In all honesty, my intent for asking you about your posting name was totally innocent. My feelings about the song Layla have changed since learning about the story behind the song.

But my intention for posting here is not to play victim, cause trouble, etc. So maybe that is why the majority of my posts are not complaints that I'm being picked on, or am 'extemely angry'?

I have posted other things here besides the few tidbits you chose to respond to and twist into a supposed personal assualt on you. Why do you persist in ignoring the more civil things people post? LONG before there were any guesses being made about what motives were behind the problem posts, there were the problem posters.

The fact is it is enirely within the realm of possibility that people who work in the porn industry can and might have motive to post here. Given the way some posters choose to participate here, it is not illogical to ponder what possible motives they might have for causing problems here.

I don't really blame you for not wanting anyone to suggest that you might have some negative reason for posting here. But it still leaves the fact that you are posting here in a way that causes problems, and we therefore are left to wonder why you are doing that. You see the problem is still what you're up to, not what we might say in response to your problematic postings. YOU CHOOSE to ignore the more civilized attempts to give you an opportunity to explain, being extremely brief if answering those questions at all, instead choosing to focus on the posts you can respond to with claims of being highly offended and extremely angry. Your choice. What's up with that?

You have to admit that posters here must be starting to wonder WHY some new posters who supposedly feel so highly offended, who are so angry, persist in staying and persist in posting in the same manner that started the problems?

I believe the majority of the "Drama" on this board is built up from a 1-VS-1 disagreement it then begin, only to snowball with other members taking sides.

Most of the time "the senior side", those who have been around, those who have created bonds with others. I avoided the work "clique", gains the bigger numbers.

The "underdog" group has a choice to hold ground or tuck tail. If they chose to hold ground, every post from that point forward "sound advice or not" will be hunted, questioned, ridiculed.

What gets me... I've seen posters recommend essentially the SAME advice given by these target posters. It gets to a point of evident "I could careless what your possition is, I'm going to continue this feud.

Who suffers? Those searching for assistance. Their threads become a ridiculous battle ground flooded with bickering.

If these posters that are often lableled trolls, are infact that. All your doing is fueling the game. Why not just use the ignore feature, and carry on?

If you are a member of the forum, and not designated a moderator, please do not feel it necessary to act as such. Report any issues you feel require the attention of those appointed to the position, and move on. If you are concerned the troll or non-MB poster is going to potentially steer someone in need of assistance in the wrong direction.

A simple reply "Offenders Name here": YOUR ADVICE IS NOT DOES NOT FOLLOW THAT OF MB RECOMMENDATION, and has been reported to the forum moderators...

For the Newbies : PLEASE keep your advise to what MB has PROVEN to be sucessful. Personal opinions could be extremely damaging, considering what's at stake.

For the Seasoned Vet : There is no chain of command amongst the posters on this forum. EVERYONE has the right to voice an opinion, even if it differs from yours.

Everyone: Keep your debates, bickering, attacks, etc.. out of threads of those seeking assistance.

I've seen other forums that have penalty areas, time out box, whatever you choose to call it. Offending the forum rules, or posting requirments gets you limited to posting in only this area for a period of time determined by a moderator. I wonder if that is an option on this board? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

ARK : As always you are a voice of reason. With the the ability to convey powerful, accurate advice in a short/sweet format. Thank You for your time and efforts, it is appreciated.

-JKT

Mopey... I missed your post that instigated the assumption she must be a porn star. I was going off MM's post


So no, it wasn't VERY obvious to me. Just too many posts to go thru.

Whoever said it, it was rediculous.

I'm confused. Why is is OK for these allegedly seasoned vets to give MB advice (such as exposing) to someone who's WS reportedly drinks too much or is "addicted to painkillers" when Harley says MB doesn't work when there is addiction????

I was wondering the same thing pieta... there is a poster here who recently found out about his wifes A and he has been doing phone consultations with Dr. Harley. He has been getting conflicting advice from what Dr. Harley is telling him to do. He has to keep repeating that he'd like to stick with what Dr. H is telling him to do.