I;m not sure if this is the way to post this, you all can let me know, I think I got the renaming part right.

One of my sister's took it upon herself to call my WS. Her own marriage suffered an A that had gone on for years. It was at their place of business, her husband with an employee, it ended 4 years ago.

This morning my WS stopped after work and told me she called. She did call me and tell me she spoke to him but wouldn't elaborate on what was said. He told me legally I cannot make him leave HIS house. Implying that if he wanted to HE could make the choice to come back.

I asked him why would he want to do that and put the kids through the tension in the home at this point? He didn't say anything. I realized right now he is afraid of losing the house, not me and his family.

Last night I was soooo tired. I guess my body is catching up with my lack of sleep. I finally had a decent 7 hours. It felt good. My mind is clearer.

I have a Dr. Appt today for an ongoing med prob, and I'm going to see about going on an AD. I've never been on them, but I think I have been in a spiraling depression since my mom died 7 years ago, and that contributed to our M problems. The therapist recommends Concerta, anyone out there ever heard of it, and does it help? BTW, my H was not very supportive when she died. My mom and I were very close and since my dad had to work during the day I took care of her through cancer & radiation & chemo before she died. It was emotionally draining.

I thought my heart couldn't break anyworse than it did when she died. Boy was I wrong.

I have a HUGE mid-term test today. Everyone pray for me. I really haven't studied at all because of the A. Pray I at least pass.







Last night my usually unemotional WH said he wanted to come back, this was his home. (tears in his eyes). This morning he came by to tell he was through with OW. The OW didn't want an on again off again relationship, so they ended it.

This all sounded waaay too suspicious to me. Thanks to these boards I know NOT to trust my alien WH.

I told him I couldn't trust him, he said he understood. Of course he had to throw in how I have lied to him in the past (about money). Always a justification.

I was geting ready to go file my childsupport papers and he was furious about that. I've got to secure mine and my kids future.


I asked right as I was leaving "You wouldn't mind me having your TWO phones would you?" He was reluctant but gave me his phone (the one he has always had) and asked about the other phone (his secret phone). Then the WH asked me if I minded if he erased some messages off the phone first. I told him yes I mind, he has nothing to hide now if he wants to come home. He let me get it out of his truck and I left.

The first message was a text to the homewrecker: I LOVE YOU. Sent no more than 2 minutes before he walked into my house! The message befor that was: Call me we have 2 talk.
And he's giving her money for her divorce! She has about 3 or 5 texts on there about him getting to the bank because she has to see the lawyer.

He's playin ME and she's playin HIM! C'mon ladies, you can agree. She's 30, had a child at the age 17. I don't know how many times she's been married but this last time she married and bought a house in 2006 and left her husband this August (she told me when I called that time that he cheated on her).

I know I shouldn't feel sorry for WS but part of me says he was really, really vaulnerable and I'm to blame for not meeting his EA. Now he's 'in love' and won't (can't?) come to his senses.

Should I let him back in? I know he will sign a NC just to get back in. But he can't leave his job, we live in a area where good jobs are hard to find, and he'll never be able to come close to what he's making moneywise now. I've suggested in the past moving away, but he won't go. And the OW works there. They are outed at work, I don't know what will come of that.

I know he will to to family counseling. I suggested M adding M counseling in that too. He said okay.

Is it possible he is torn? He told me today he realized yeasterday he does have feelings for me because of a comment my older son said about me dating and getting on with my life.

Everyday gets confusinger and confusinger. I hate to wake up - that is if I get to bed at all.

wow!!!!
that was a huge leap of faith he took giving you the phone knowing you would hear those messages...that's big action risk he took.

I would tell him that he should take the money he was going to give her and call the Harleys with it...

ARK

I seldom interject when a poster is getting help from some of the finest ladies on MB but they appear to be aghast at what you've said above and haven't replied yet. I see I'm not concurring with Ark in this, but I just can't help pointing out other aspects of this development.

If you can't handle tough talk, stop reading right now.

Frankly my first reaction on reading this was that you MUST be joking about letting him come back home. Feeling sorry for him is a really, really poor excuse to give in. Two minutes...TWO MINUTES...before he begs to come home, he's still telling OW he loves her...and you somehow think that's good enough for you? He's STILL fence-sitting, he hasn't made the SLIGHTEST commitment to actual NC, much less showing any signs of re-committing to the marriage, but you're going to cave?

Ma’am, if you let him back into the house, you are letting yourself in for more pain and heartache than you can imagine at this point. It won’t help the kids. It will make things WORSE for them in the long run.

Frankly, the only thing you should do in reaction to this is to tell your attorney your husband is paying for the OW’s divorce. Let your lawyer add that amount to the sum of your community property in the determination of the proper child and spousal support.

oh no longhorn..we don't disagree....
I wouldn't let him back in till firm boundaries are established....

thats why I would have him talk to the harleys before he moved in...

BUT
I am serious about handing over the phone with those messages on it is truly a huge huge action....

look at how many BS have to go months and months powerstruggling stupid minutia...
to get them to disclose tiny things.....and he discloses hugely of his own action pretty quickly....

WS can become so emeshed in the lies....and the pretending...and the nature of the beast...becoming all those things that are despised....that there is great reliefe in laying it all on the table..,,,and great risk as well.

those actions...

scary leaps espcially from a WS do need acknowledged and to be rewarded....

OP in the throes of losing their WS certainly turn up the attractive no drama card on their ends...and if all they get is emotional trauma and chaos from the BS which one do you think looks more attractive to them

ARK

Mitzie,

OK, your WH says the following;

""The OW didn't want an on again off again relationship, so they ended it.""

But you find out how he really feels;

""text to the homewrecker: I LOVE YOU. Sent no more than 2 minutes before he walked into my house! The message befor that was: Call me we have 2 talk.""

So, knowing this you ask;

""Should I let him back in? ""

???????

OK, you could let him back in to plan A your a$$ off to show him you are the better catch. This would be the only reason, since you know he is such a lying two-faced, fence sitting, cake-eater!

""Everyday gets confusinger and confusinger.""

How so? Seems pretty clear to us. Do not believe a single word that comes out of his mouth.

Just from what I have read in this one post from you I don't trust him as far as I can throw my Toyota!

And as for the NC letter? You will have to take on the roles of police detective, jailer, and international spy to make sure the NC remains in place.

Plan B? Maybe??

kirk

Wow, sounds exactly like my H just before our big false recovery.

My H told me how much he wanted his family back, we were in MC, they were outed at work, so I was certain that he was sincere. And he was, for a little while (couple of weeks). It's too easy to fall back into that addiction again, especially if they are working together.

So I suggest that you be really careful. False recoveries and repeated D-days are incredibly painful. And they are very, very likely to happen in a situation where they work together.

I agree with ark in suggesting MC with the Harley's. They may be able to help your H see why NC is so critical and get him 'with the program'.

In the meantime, it might be smart for you to get him back in the house to get a really good Plan A going. And also so you can keep a better eye on him and be better able to detect any potential problems or contact with the OW. (See what the pros thik about that -- that's just my thought and I may be off-base.)


Also -- It would be much easier for people to kep up with your story and to give you good consistent info if you kept your posts to one thread. All the separate threads get a little confusing. You can change the title of your whole thread by changing the title of your first post, so you can keep it current.

-AmI.

I've read tens of thousands of posts here and have NEVER seen a happy recovery from an affair if the affairees still work together. Many people have gone against the Harleys advice and decided to give it a try. It doesn't work.

lol ... took too long to write my post, and the pros have already chimed in. I'd go with them on not letting him back in the house -- so forget what I said about that part!

-AmI.

Ark^^, etal

""I am serious about handing over the phone with those messages on it is truly a huge huge action...""

I'm sorry, but I see a total deer in the headlights, all the blood draining from his face, type of action. What else could he do? He was caught like a rat in a trap and had to give it up.

THE GUY IS PAYING FOR HIS LOVERS DIVORCE!!

This to me is the huge huge action!

kirk

Nope, don't let him come home yet. He's got a lot to SHOW you before that happens. First off, take Arks advise and tell him to contact the Harley's and STOP giving ANYTHING to OW, ESPECIALLY money, GEEZ.

Listen to the advise you are getting. You are headed for a false recovery if you let him back in right now.

Figure out what your boundaries are and state them. If that's moving, then that's moving; don't lower your standards for HIM, make him rise to yours. Set the bar high, not low.

oh, AND get some of that money that he is trying to help OW with and call the Harleys yourself. You need a plan.

well krusht...the truth is he could have done lots of other things...

smashed the phones
lied that he had them on them
broken them
or refused..

he had tons of options....

here's my thing...if and when we are really talking about WS who prior to affairs were basically decent people...

I have no stomach for people that spew horrible horrible abuse and marriages and tack on a affair...and want help rebuilding...that's bull...

but the typical WS who truly finds themselves way way way in over their heads.....

who up till now were truthful and now find telling lies a full time job...

whose to say that saying he will pay for her divorce isn't has much as anyother lie the person speaks....

this is the exact time he needs his BS to be the stand up boundary setting type of person to show and remind him how to stop allllll the chaos and crap....
who else can show him the value of honesty again..certainl not the OP ..they are mirror image of lies and dishonor and disrespect

and marriagebuilders is all about rewarding the tiniest glimmers of tiny actions.....

in a messed up affair junkie mind....

if that's not the case what is...the point

did not espior or some one else write beautiful posts about addressing the fact that her husband had become a liar...and how much she wanted to help re-learn the value of being an honest person...

how she guided him to not tolerate lies to her and even towards her OP in the destruction of the affair relationship

what do people really think that WS only lie to their BS and to their OP they speaks truths....bllleeeeccccchhhhh

ain't gonna happen....

so she holds in her hand a phone full of painful gut wrenching crap...

she the BS has lots of choices....

she can go ballistic.....and freak the f out....and then sit back and cry and moan that he doesn't reveal any thing to her...and that getting the truth is like pulling teeth...

she could also speak quietly of the pain...even while thanking him for it....and show a reaction that offers insight in to the depths of his destructive actions without destroying him...

how many WS say..

too much damage
too much pain
too much hurt...to ever go back and cry calling it all quits....

how about the ole BS of I just want to be alone without my spouse or the OP,...

so here's my stance... you can't have it both ways...

nothing a WS says can be trusted...

it's all BS...but we can certainly get caught up and distracted and powerstuggle it..,
and we ourselves know very little of what is reall going on

how much money are we talking
is it a done deal
or a plan
was it a plan but now that they 'breaking' up is it off or on...

blah blah blah....

lies lies lies....

but the ACTION of handing over a phone...knowing there was very very bad incriminating evidence...deserves a thankyou...
thats my opinion.....

it's like a junkie saying they want to quit...and handing you 1/5th of their stash...it's a start...

and you gotta start somewhere

ARK

Wowee! So much advice. From so many SMART people. I hope someday I can help and give hope to someone who truly needs it. You ALL are F*A*N*T*A*S*T*I*C!

First he is not home. I did and do not want hasty decisions made.

When I came back home later today he was here with the boys, and we had a nice conversation, until it turned to the child/spousal support. He is very upset at this because, well who knows why, there are any number of reasons. I told him I have to do what is best for the kids and since we are not together I have to do it.

Yes I agree letting me have that "secret" phone was a big leap after all the lies upon lies. Later on I asked about the ILU text. He said that was the last thing he'll text to her. Yeah, right dude, I ain't buyin what yer sellin'.

Because I am an empathetic person by nature, I feel for the Alien inside.

So when you all speak of a reward for him for taking a leap of faith, what does that mean? I gave him a back-rub, something he always enjoyed from me. Of course I couldn't help wondering if he was wishing it was OW doing it, but he said he liked it. That kind of reward?

And he admited to the money for her lawyer. He called it a loan! You should've seen me have to practically
BEG for $20.00 for gas from him not that long ago. I asked him if he thought it a bit suspicious that he's known her a little over a month and she's borrowing money from him already for a divorce. He said yes, but I'm sure the alien thinks it's normal. Apparently it is around $700.00!

I told him since he is not to have any contact with her, he should just kiss the money good-bye. He won't. I told him he's going to have to find a new job. His reply was: What's the difference if she works there, she usually doesn't work the same shift. I said that was the only way I could trust that there was not any physical contact at work. He won't.

Plan A will continue: with him not at home.

BTW, after he was done ranting about the child support he said to me, what do you want me to say? I said "sorry, you've never said your sorry" and his response to that was: I'm sorry it's come to this. He's not remorseful. He's not ready to own up.

How do I bump this Up? And did I change the subject correctly? I'm so new to this. Hope this works.

How do I make a call to the Hartleys?

mitzie,

Reward would have been as simple as acknowledging that it took a lot for him to hand over his phones to you and thank him for it.

As for the money, it's really up to you what is acceptable to you in regards to this, as it WILL cause further contact. Stick to your guns. NC under any circumstances.

If him quitting his job is a deal breaker, then stick by that, too. I just don't see how you will ever feel secure, and he will have absolutely NC, as long as they work together. What happens if he is 'offered' another shift, and ends up working with her again? It could happen.

To edit the subject line so that it appears on the GQ board, click EDIT from your first entry to this thread and change the subject line there.

To call the Harley's click on the TOP banner (in red) that says "Counseling Center" and that will guide you on how to call and set up an appointment.

You will! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Remember: You can to kick *ss and chew bubble gum and you're all out of bubble gum!!!