To make a long story short, yesterday I asked my WS to open his email, he did. Unfortunatly it was the one I already knew about (red flag). I asked him about the other one, he flatly denied having another account (typical I expectd)after pressure he opened an old Yahoo account. Nothing on there at all. Now I know password. Cannot trust him.

WS was very reluctant to call Ow in front of me to let her know I know that he (supposidly) broke it off. He didn't want to get her in trouble because she needs the job. Finally I told him he has to decide who is more important, me, his family and making the M work, or the OW. He called, the call was very appologetic, "sorry to call you at work" and all that crap. He told her I was there and wanted to know that he did indeed break it off and was going to work on his M. The call sounded very scripted. OW said "well, you gotta do what you gotta do." and he again appologized for calling at work. I told him it sounded fake,on both their parts. He cussed and said he wasn't going to live this way always looking over his shoulder to see if I was following him and spying on him. He said too many people got heart by his mistake and all he can do is try and right it. Still don't trust him.

So, even though WS has told me, our children, his family he wants to come back home,and he is not going to see OW again. I will not let him.

Last night he came back after visiting his family (his mom's b-day otherwise he would just ignore them until they left for wintering in Florida next week) I asked him what his week-end plans were, he said he didn't have any. I said we should go do something, just he and me. This was one of the big EN not met, his need for ADULT alone time with me and without the kids. In 15 years of M we probably have less than a dozen times we went out alone just the two of us.

He said that sounded great, so we kinda made a date. We had a fun evening, watching hockey and it felt like family home (part of plan A-make home a place he WANTS to be). He kissed me good-night and said he'd be over to see the kids in the morning (they are off school).

Is this alright? He's not back home, I do NOT trust him, but I have to show him that yes, I can still be fun, I can still be his 'playmate' so to speak. Yes, this is part of my plan A. I know SF is a HUGHE part of his EN, I'm just not ready to go there yet. I grew up in the 80's AIDs scare and just that and all the other STD's, I think we should BOTH be tested before SF.

Is it okay when we are out to not talk about our relationship, the A, the kids, problems? I feel as though tonight should be about "him". Has anyone on here ever been down this road? How did it go? I'm sure the WS feels like he's got the best of both worlds.

I will have him take the EN Questionnaire home to fill out.

mitzie, honey, please just stick to one thread. Now people don't know what happened not just a few days ago.

As for dating your spouse, I think it is a good idea to talk about a recovery plan. If you want to use the MB route, it's best to start sooner than later. Start focusing on the M. It's important that you two spend the bulk of your time together, and that he write a NC letter, you review it and mail it.

Start to iron out what your conditions are for recovery. Transparency is key. HE needs to give you all of his accounts and passwords TODAY, not let them trickle out as you go. Everything out on the table now.

When I attempted to 'date' my FWH, while we were living apart, he began ANOTHER A with another OW. It's just too easy when they are in the Wayward mindset, to continue toward instant gratification, however sick it is.

Start getting a recovery plan together, the two of you NOW. If he is not serious, you will find out soon enough to go Plan B.

Yes, mitzie, it's not only "right" (you ARE married), it is NEEDED as part of the process of healing your marriage.

Do NOT worry about the trust issue. Fully Trusting him again is a long way off, possibly years off in the future.

But you will begin to be able to trust him in many areas and BUILD trust that is earned. In fact, you probably already do trust him in some areas. Perhaps it might help you to make a list of the things you DO trust him for and the things you don't trust him for.

Remember, "blind trust" is gone. What replaces it, especially in the "big" areas (like fidelity) is Earned Trust.

Definitely keep "relationship" talks out of "dating, fun times." The idea here is to learn to LIKE one another again, not to clinically dissect all the problems. There is a time and place for all the step in recovery, but ENJOYING time together is a big part of the process.

God bless.

You're most likely right - that phone call to the OW didn't sound sincere. He told her you were standing right there to let her know (wink-wink) that you were 'making' him such mean things to her... and her response about him doing what he has to do was her way of letting him know she got the message that it's NOT what he really feels... Now when you do go to Plan B he will be thinking that all he has to do to get you to drop Plan B is to make another fake call like that one. OR he may think that his angry rant about you following him around and looking over his shoulder has taught you the lesson to not try to make him accoutnable to you. Oh, and being apologetic with the OW was unacceptable too IMHO. When he sends the REAL no contact message to the OW, via letter that he gives to you to send to OW, it has to be way more convincing than that.

"He said too many people got heart by his mistake and all he can do is try and right it."

This is his sneaky way of expressing concern for the OW having been hurt. What it would take to make the OW feel better is for him to tell her that he really chooses her over you but you are somehow 'making' him stay involved with you (finances? kids? 'dragging out' divorce?) What it would take for YOU to feel better is for him to dump the OW completely, making it clear to her that he CHOOSES you over her, and regrets ever having met her. He can't really express genuine concern for BOTH you and the OW having been hurt. The OW is in no way an innocent party in this, he owes her no loyalty, he had no obligation to be faithful to her. THEY made a choice, that they derived pleasure from, and now they may suffer some discomfort from. PLUS their selfish choice, made without consulting you, adversely affected you. They do not deserve, and should not expect, any sympathy for the naturally occurring consequences of their evil choice.

The ONLY way to make the mess he made 'right' is to end the adultery with a genuine no contact letter to the OW, to become accountable to you, and to follow MB's principles to rebuild the relationship. He apparently is not ready to do those things. He's in cake-eating mode.

It's OK to 'date' him if you are still in Plan A. It may cause the OW to show him some controlling, jealous behavior; it may cause them to fight. Plus it will give you the opportunity to spend more time with him to Plan A and meet his needs as per Plan A.

You are wise not to become sexually involved with him until testing has been done and it has been confirmed that he is no longer involved with the OW.

mitzie,

it sounds as if you understand what Plan A is about. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

My husband never was out of the house but right after d-d and he ended the affair, he went through withdrawel.

I didn't know MBers at that time but I guess I reacted the right way.


We were on the go constantly. Lots of fun time. Out to the movies, dinner, meeting friends, get away weekends, shopping, going for long walks, LOTS of bubble baths, and sharing our hobby.

We laughted alot and didn't talk about our relationship. I don't know why but something told me that this just wasn't the right time for discussions.
We also went for a 2 week holiday to the caribic and I think this is when I won his heart back.

I did everything possible to look my best and filled his love bank whereever possible.

Discussions came much later.............this stage in not te stage to educate.......just set your boundaries very clearly without demanding anything from him.

Make sure to make it a boundary to get checked for STDs.

bb

Mitzie,


I don't know the details of your situation, but it seems to me that if you are not going to plan B your WH, then it would be far better to have him under the same roof. Makes it easier to do a good plan A and also easier to keep tabs on him and make sure that there really is NC.

I think having him live somewhere else while you are not in plan B is a mistake and dating him is just allowing him to sit of the fence eating loads of cake.

Agree that you need a recovery plan.

JMHO,

Who

WhoMe,

remember this man might of told OW on the phone that it was over but it did not sound sincere to Mitzie.

It's important for Mitzie to set her boundaries and maybe even to write them down in a letter to her WS.

For Example:

-Absolute NO CONTACT with OW.
-NO contact letter
-Marriage Counceling
-Get tested for STD

When the WS "heartfully" agrees with these conditions, then the time will come for him to come back home.

It has hardly ever worked here in MBers to just let the WS come back home............easily........... without the BS setting up conditions for him to either agree with or not.

If not.......well then it's just not time for him to be back in the house.

bb

I haven't posted for a while, I've been working on my plan A. It seemed to going very well. We had a wonderful week-end, just the two of us, enjoying each other's company.

Today the *hit hit the fan, so to speak. He came over furious that I got her fired from her job. He was defending her, saying she needed that job, how is she ever going to get antother job. Telling me it was over and why couldn't I just let it go and leave her out of this. He's the one that pursued her, he told her he wasn't married, so on and on it went for about 10 minutes.

When she found out he was married, she still kept seeing him. That didn't stop her.

Now he tells me she might come after me! I don't know how crazy she is, if she's willing to date a M man then she hasn't any morals and who knows what she is capable of.

WS is worried he might be fired also. I'm inclined to beleive not since he is in the union and nothing was said to him at his employment yet about the A.(she was employed by different company).

Now what? I was a strong and stood my ground with WS. I'm not to blame here, WS and OW are.

How long before he comes to his senses and realizes what I did I did to save our M? Will this drive WS and OW closer together? Do I still continue plan A?

Checked his e-mail and he changed his pass word to 'ilove(her email address)' yesterday! So I know it's not over.

Mitzie

Mitzie,

There you go switching threads on us again.

Now what? You hunker down and weather the storm. Continue to plan A and DO NOT APOLOGIZE for anything!!

If he told her it was over and there is NC then how does he know she got fired? He IS still in the A.

Good job, mitzie!!!

You hang tough in there!! You did the right thing...you took a stand against infidelity!

Your bravery is a shining example to others. Do NOT let your H get you down!!

BTW-I think it's time for you to change your sig line a bit...You are definitely carrot AND stick of Plan A!!!!

Play with fire and sometimes you get burned. You have nothing to apologize for.

Did she lose her job because of the affair or because of poor work performance??? If SHE lost her job and not your WH, then there is a chance she might of lost it for poor work performance.

Regardless, of the reason, OW got involved with a married man and is now paying the price. Just ignore what your WH is saying and stay within your plan! You did the right thing, don't let WH tell you otherwise.

His behavior is typical WS behavior... typical!!! DO NOT LET HIM PHASE YOU.

mbm,

OW works(ed) for another company that is a supplier to WH's company.

Well, even if she wasn't working at the same place of employment as WH, maybe her poor work performance was the culprit. Conflict of interest, or getting involved with a client, is indicative of poor work related judgement. It would lead ultimately to poor job performance.

Mitzie said OW continued to see her WH even when she knew he was married... so OW is hardly an angel here.

Mitzie,

Make no mistake, you are wielding a very big stick.

Good work!

Mark

Thank you all so much. I feel much better now. I know I did the right thing even though WS phoned and stated he has to see HR now and may be getting his walking papers.

She did work at the same PLACE of employment, she was contracted outside WS company. She did get fired because of the A. WS and OW are still in text, phone contact, email contact. That is how he found out, SHE told him. He will not do a NC letter, he said that is rediculous and I have to take his word.

He is not back home.

So what exactly is STICK, I thought it is was when the WS is trying for recovery.

Mitzie,
stay on track no matter how insecure you might feel about the step you made.
Your WS reaction is typical for WS'S.
bb

Response: "I'm sorry to hear that. I guess your company takes a very dim view of their employees being involved in affairs". then change the subject immediately.

Never, never, NEVER accept blame for the consequences of a WS's behaviour.

Response to your WH saying that YOU got OW fired..

Oh, I'm sorry, did I miss something, am I OW's employer?

Mitzie, you done great, girl! I don't know of ONE WS who did not have a similar reaction to exposure, including my own. It wasn't so funny at the time, but now I find it slightly amusing that he would expect me to protect him and his doofus OW.

Keep up the Plan A, do not apologize, don't even mention it yourself.