BR,
I am at a total loss to understand how you inferred from my reply to you that I was:


... setting myself up to be the "STD police."

I had to go back and reread my reply in case I missed something
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

What I did advocate, and continue to do so, is that it is sometimes up to others, to also explain the flip side of the coin concerning STD's.

Pleas read that reply again. Nowhere do I advocate to "just don't do it." I emphasized the option of an informed choice! I still do.

A newly BS in total shock, in most cases, hasn't even thought about the possibilities of an STD. They are still too in shock over the worst nightmare of their life, a betrayal.

To then advocate SF as part of your good Plan A, without pointing out the inherent danger of doing so, is IMHO, dangerous advise.

Please read my reply again, and point out your don't do it quotes that appear to be non existent.

I remain confused <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />.

All Blessings,
Jerry

Jerry,

Just to be clear...SF is NOT part of Dr. Harley's plan A. Stating a willingness to meet that need after the affair has ended is what the doctor has suggested.
Anything outside of that is a strategy, but not Plan A.


I will gladly take on the label of STD police if it means we can help prevent another death here...or another cancer. The person most qualified to speak about this having lived through the consequences of her actions...actions which were clouded by the shock of infidelity...is Resilient. She has done so.
Learn people, learn.

I agree wholeheartedly MEDC.
I advocate informed choice and for that I have fingers wagged at me and referred to as the "STD police."

As far as HPV is concerned, it's no big deal to me. The real risk is to the 40,000 women walking around with this STI who are complettely unaware of it.

The Government no longer dumps any money into the research of this. HPV is the 95% cause of cervical cancer. That is why the new focus is vaccinations for young girls. We actually have it in our power to virtually eliminate this horrible cancer, and when I bring this up, I am wagged at by of all people, women, who are at MOST risk.

I don't know what else to say <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />. Plan A, Plan b, how about Plan C to avoid cervical cancer?

Instead I get slapped down, about how un Plan A my thoughts are? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Oh well,

All Blessings,
Jerry

Jerry,

I just want to suggest that the prevalence of HPV is DRAMATICALLY higher than you have mentioned here. And I mean DRAMATICALLY. Out of the 20 million people that have it..which is a low estimate...most are painfully unaware.

Here are some facts.

The Basics:

There are 100 strains of HPV, 30 of which are sexually transmitted.

Both men and women are affected by HPV. Women can be tested for HPV by Pap smears; there is no HPV test for men.

How many?

Approximately 20 million people are currently infected with HPV.

50% of sexually active men and women will contract an HPV infection during their lives.

By age 50, 80% of women will have acquired the genital infection of HPV.

About 6.2 million Americans contract a genital HPV infection every year.

HPV and Cervical Cancer:

10 of the 30 sexually transmitted strains of HPV cause cervical cancer.

90% of women test negative for cervical HPV within their first two years of disease contraction.

In 2004, the American Cancer Society estimated that 10,520 women would develop cervical cancer and approximately 3,900 would die from this disease.

Reducing Your Risk:

HPV can be transferred in by genital areas covered and uncovered by a condom.

Truthfully discuss your sexual history with your partner.

Women: GET TESTED.

Abstain from sex


And Jerry, don't worry about getting slapped down on this topic. It is a badge of honor to stand up and be counted on this topic.

Thanks, MEDC.
I agree 100%. When I was treated by a apecialist(he stated to me me that the number was much higher.
The number of people out there who have had more than one partner was closer to 80%.

That's a frightening thought. I didn't grow up in this era, but it has certainally changed now.

That's why we are doing vaccinations now. You would not have seen this 30 years ago.

Stil, I'm told about the importance of doing a perfect Plan a, without regarding the risks of doing so, without testing. UGGGGGGHHHHH.

All Blessings,
Jerry

But that's just the thing Jerry, it isn't Plan A to do that...it is Plan Desperate. It is our job to help people work a plan and not give into their desperation.

Well thanks for that MEDC,
I wasn't trying to come off as arrogant or all knowing. I just know what I went through, and did all the research I could, to have a better understanding of where things were between my W and I.

I am absolutely freaked out and worried about her. She seems to poo poo away my very real concerns about her health. It is a constant struggle for me to have her have something as simple as a yearly Pap smear. Her GYNC has told her her she does not have HPV. What a foolish statement, considering that she gave it to me.

It is totally frustrating.

All Blessings,
Jerry

Jerry, certain strains can be fought off by the body. She may have done so...or she may have a false positive.

YOU never come across as arrogant or all knowing. Your care shines through in your posts.

I was in PLAN A..not PLAN Desperate...can't speak for anyone else...

And I don't agree with this...

That particular statement was made in his discussion of ALL EMOTIONAL NEEDS..

I'm sure Dr. Harley is not stating that ALL EMOTIONAL NEEDS should not be met during PLAN A...

In my interpretation, he is saying this for those WSes who will not allow the BS to meet this need during PLAN A...because during PLAN A the WS fights hard to ward off needs being met by the BS...

BUT HE ALSO IS NOT ADVOCATING UNPROTECTED, UNSAFE SEX EITHER....but

I'm willing to step out and say that meeting the SEXUAL FULFILLMENT NEED is part of PLAN A...just like you are saying that it is NOT...

We need to hear from the good Dr. himself about this...

Maybe someone can ask on the RADIO SHOW...

Ok, so here's a question...

If we're quoting directly from the doctor, and the understanding is that the doctor says that:



That doesn't say SF...it says emotional needs. Its not specific.

So does that mean that we've been telling everyone to do plan A all wrong all this time?

That they don't meet their WS's emotional needs in plan A...but rather communicate a willingness to do so AFTER the affair is ended????

Again, this wasn't "SF specific". SF is one of the EN's...and so not excluded from this...but if you are using the doctor's advice based on this quote, then that must mean ALL of the EN's, right?

So have we had this wrong all this time?

LOL...Mimi...we posted nearly the exact same thing at the same time. Too funny.

Owl..that's the EXACT POINT I AM MAKING...

I was counseled by STEVE during PLAN A..and was told to MEET AS MANY OF MY HUSBAND'S EN's as he would allow me to meet..

I didn't talk to Steve specifically about the SF issue..I don't think...but it certainly was implied in our discussions...

During an affair, any attempts to meet EN's are largely ineffective and the WS isn't receptive so the best we can do is show the WS we are willing and able to meet EN's after the affair ends.

We should of course meet any EN's the WS will allow us to meet - the whole thing in an affair is the WS's needs being met - some by OP but also some by BS.

Mimi - The only place I take issue with you is that you champion having SF with a WS usually without mentioning DIRECTLY that it can be dangerous to the BS's health. You never until challenged by MEDC or Believer even MENTION safe sex.

No, you are right Mimi...he only wants people to do the ones that can KILL THEM.

Have you ever asked yourself why a medical doctor on this site...someone a lot more experienced with MEDICAL problems...called you to the carpet on this issue? Your being the champion of unsafe sex with a WS continues to astound me.

As far as hearing from the good doctor, I posted a quote from him on this thread. What, his own words aren't good enough?

Let me ask you Mimi, how many people would be able to line up with a malpractice suit against a doctor (Dr. H) if he advised them to follow the path that you have taken(without proper warning). I would bet a lot.


I get the impression that YOU are personally offended that there is a contingent of people here suggesting that people not follow this dangerous way of thinking and acting. If that's the case, too bad. It is an entirely irresponsible, desperate and childish way to act given all the facts about what a person could be exposed to.

I GOTCHA, BIGK..It's just NOT "MY STYLE"..even IRL..I assume ADULTS HAVE A RIGHT TO TAKE RISKS..just me..my way of being...It's my attitude towards SMOKING CIGS and all sorts of things..."If you choose to kill yourself, that's your choice, is my way of thinking..I NEVER POST ON THE SUICIDE THREADS...

And plus, I really don't CHAMPION any of this, I don't think..what a TRAGEDY..what a HORRIBLE SPOT for any of us to be in...

AFFAIRS ARE JUST GENERALLY SELF-DESTRUCTIVE ANYHOW...

I really, really do believe in the MARRIAGEBUILDERS' APPROACH...for a zillion different reasons..I guess that's what I CHAMPION....

If you can't give sound advice about this, you should NOT be talking to wounded people that are not thinking clearly and able to make decisions that are in their best interests.
You will tell them to protect their finances...but NOT their life.

SAD.

Well Mimi - I also champion unapologetically the MB approach. I'ma bona-fide koolaide drinker and proud of it.

BUT as much as you like to think "adults have a right to take risks" and they do for sure, you fail to take into account the fragile nature of a BS who arrives here having just discovered their partner in an affair. They aren't rational and may not even consider the consequences of such reckless behaviour and PROMOTING reckless behaviour without attaching a WARNING LABEL is irresponsible - that is my only point on this issue.

I clearly believe in EMPOWERING WOMEN, not seeing them as HELPLESS VICTIMS.

That's one of the most important EMOTIONAL LESSONS after discovery of your H's affair. That's one of the most important exercises during PLAN A...staying POWERFUL...not feeling victimized by the tragedy..continuing to FIGHT...

Every one has their own part to play.

I've pretty said everything I have to say about this, MEDC but I will speak up when you make statements that I consider to be untrue or inaccurate...

I'm not gonna change my position on this...the importance of meeting this need during PLAN A...

I'm thinking about maybe holding back some on what the experience was like for me...cause it was POSITIVE...you have had that effect..MAYBE...

It's hard for me to relate to this 'cause MY RECKLESS BEHAVIOR was trying to BEAT UP MY HUSBAND..not the sex...speaking for myself, the sex was not done desperately to win him back, it was for MY OWN ENJOYMENT most of the time.....and that was what he found ATTRACTIVE..not the ACT..he loved it that I was ENJOYING IT again..

And here I go..spilling the beans that you guys don't want me to share...