Generally speaking, of course.

Since my d-day 16 months ago, I've read countless times about "the fog", "alien abduction", and about the A being about validation, ego boosting, emotional fulfillment, etc.

I call B.S. (bullsh_t) in many cases.

Terms like "the fog" seem to have been created to either lessen the responsibility of the WS, to make the BS not feel quite so bad about what a scumbag their WS is, or both. A WS is said to be "in the fog", almost as if they are being subjected to an outside force beyond their control. This is crap. What the fog really is the the WS's lingering desire to screw someone else. It's thinking with their genitals, plain and simple. They are choosing to be in the fog. Affairs are not heroin. They are not alcohol or cigarettes. There are no DT's without a fix.

When a WS speaks of being in a fog, they are actually whining because they still want some on the side. It's not so much a response to an addiction as it is being a spoiled brat, like a child in a toy store throwing a fit because they only got 9 toys instead of 10. They know exactly what they are doing, and could end it whenever they choose. At the very least, they could keep it to themselves instead of making the people they betrayed suffer even more. If YOU are in the "fog", then YOU are making a conscious choice to be an [censored]. Grow up.

I used to post on another site like this one...I'm sure many of you are familiar with it. I stated that I think a large number of WS's cheat just to get some "strange". Forget "ego-boosting" or "filling a hole left by the BS"...I think in the majority of cases, it's just a matter of gettin' some. A physical thrill with someone new, and little else. After all, that's basic human nature....see someone you find attractive, have sex with them. The fact that you are screwing them after a wedding ceremony changes nothing. You are still screwing them because they turn you on, and you want to get your rocks off.

To claim otherwise is an attempt at minimizing.

It's not me...it's my character flaw.

You mean to tell me that a grown adult, capable of going to school, holding a job, raising children and paying the bills was at the mercy of some character flaw that impaired their judgement to the point that they stepped out on their family? Forgive me if I'm skeptical.

You know, not a SINGLE WS on the other site was willing to admit that they cheated just because they wanted the thrill of strange...there was always some deeper issue involved that took some of the burden off of them and made them a victim, at least in part.

I just don't buy it in most cases, and I don't appreciate the lies being fed to BS's.

Hi Krazy,

Good vent... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I think that as you and your W continue to rebuild, that you will come to see that when fog is mentioned here on MBs that it's not really an 'excuse' for the WS...

It's more of a description of the WS's inability to clearly see what is going on in the relationship.

Keep reading and posting!

Semper Fi,

RIF

LOL..I really think my H's A started just as you say..she was "strange" alright...different than me in almost every way...except being a woman...

BUT..he did become ADDICTED to her offers of "STRANGENESS"..and called it "LOVE"...

He DENIED being ADDICTED or in a "FOG"..what do you mean, this was his SOULMATE..his "TRUE LOVE"...GAG..YUCK...

Vent on...

It's the term "inability" I have a problem with.

I say they have the ability, but choose not to use it.

Hey Krazy,

Perhaps I should have been a little bit clearer:

WS have the inability to see the damage being done to the M ...because they are so overcome with their own lustful desires...

Semper Fi,

RIF

AMEN AMEN AMEN!!! TOTALLY AGREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Krazy ..........your not crazy. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Or guess that must mean I'm leaning that way too <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />.......cause I agree with much of your rant. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

IMO,
posters do tend to Blame/excuse far too much on "the fog" , aliens and all the rest.

Its practically morphed into the MBers catch phrase ...almost showing up in every 3rd--4th post.

Its pretty much become a Blanket statement for anything Negative a WS happens to say or do.
What a shame.

The most successful FWS I've witnessed have OWNED all their actions 100% .....not passing the buck.

Please:
Take all the responsibility [for what's been done] or your likely to never truly get away from the waywardiSH mindset.
At least not fully ....and that leaves everyone at risk.

On the flip side,
I do UnderStand WHY BS's use this form of deflection.
It sure helps to deal with all the resentment that can be built up by the selfish WS.

So although it does have some value as a coping mechanism .........IMO it has evolved to encompass FAR more then it ever should have.

Its overuse has lessened its real value and reduced it to being a cop out and an excuse.
Just like with antibiotics ...a good idea turning on itself.

Krazy I guess our screen names should say that we think alike. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I know i said it once but i so agree with this vent!!

TopRope,

From your tagline:

"Keep in mind that Hurting People ....Hurt People."

Except for WS's? We just hurt people b/c.... what?... we're scum?

I'm surprised that more BS's don't agree with me.

I've accepted the fact that my FWW screwed someone else just for the thrill of it. If she got any sort of an "ego boost" it was unimportant...an irrelevant side effect. Does she have a character flaw or two? Yes. Are they the reason that she accepted OM's advances, met him in secret, got naked, and had sex with him? Of course not. That's just silly.

Question: If affairs are about an ego boost, why can't they get they get the same rush from exchanging compliments via email?

Answer: Because emails don't generally end with an orgasm...and that's the REAL objective, not some ethereal "ego boost".

WS's hurt people because getting their rocks off is more important to them than those they are hurting.

It's so simple....but it's always muddled by talk of egos, character flaws, etc.

The fact that terms like "gaslighting", "blameshifting", and "rewriting marital history" even exist just backs up my opinion that the WS is in complete control of their faculties before, during, and after an A.

Well Dr. Harley says that we are all wired to have affairs, he also says that those that think they are immune are the greatest risk...That was certainly true for me, I was most definitely one of those that said I would NEVER cheat, and I completely believed that about myself...Because I believed that so vehemently, when my high school/college exboyfriend contacted me through classmates.com, it felt "safe" to me to email and talk on the phone with him...And when conversations turned to "remember when" and "what if" I gave myself permission to move bondaries because, "I would NEVER cheat"...So little by little I allowed him to meet my ENs, and guess what happens when you allow someone to meet your top ENs? Well, your brain chemistry goes haywire and YES, feelings of "love" rush over you...Sex naturally enters your mind when those top needs are being met-that "rush" of being "in love" (infatuation) is highly intoxicating and sure most times leads to sex...Think about it, who doesn't want to have sex when their needs for conversation, admiration and affection are being met?

And yes, a state of "fog" does exist AFTER you've allowed someone to meet your top needs...You become all consumed by the "rush" of it...I became the most HORRIBLE mother in the world...Detached from entire family and obviously my husband...And when busted I actually said to Mr. W, something to the effect of "you go out and find someone to have an affair with too and we'll just stay married"...OMG, I can swear to you that there is NO WAY that without "fog" I would have said that and MEANT it...Seriously, I'm a really jealous person, and that is so NOT me...

And honestly Krazy, I do know where you are coming from, if I had not been there myself I probably wouldn't believe it either...I remember something VERY strange that happened to me physically when in the affair and talking on the phone with OM...I got this BIZARRE tingling sensation between my shoulder blades-it was the weirdest feeling and I believe that it has to do with the brain chemicals that are being released during an affair...I have no other explanation for it and it happened a few times to me...

As far as it being a choice, sure, you bet it is...actually it's a series of choices that lead to betrayal...So the term "fog" should not be used to excuse making poor and destructive choices at all...However, the state of "fogginess" DOES exist once in the affair but it doesn't mean that the infidel couldn't choose to do otherwise, but it does make the infidel not want to choose otherwise, if that makes sense to you at all...

What's that saying? "Sin will take you further than you ever wanted to go..keep you longer than you ever wanted to stay...cost you more than you can ever pay.." Very True...

Mrs. W

So if you think that A's are only about sex, can one presume you don't believe EA's exist?

I, personally, use the phrases to help describe the behavior. There is ABSOLUTELY NO EXCUSE for the behavior.

I think you may be mistaken that people here are excusing the behavior. No way, no how; maybe desperate people are just trying to understand the behavior, so it is given an easy to follow phrase.

Krazy, in your sitch, maybe your wife was just in it for the strange.

My WH stood, looked me dead in the eye, and told me he wanted to fall in love with OW. YEOUCH! That one smarted. I believe that he did want some of that strange, I also think he wanted MORE. He was LAVISHED with attention from the OW. He got his.

Now, as for the rant, I totally agree with it.

Now, as for gaslighting, it is a REAL thing. Again, not an excuse for their behavior, but a description, that could help many BS's learn how to COMBAT the behavior with their own form of cunning (such as RB).

it really is a good rant!

While I agree with the spirit of the OP, I don't think the terms "fog" and "alien abduction" are merely ways to excuse the WS's behavior. And it probably depends on the particular situation to some degree.

For example, my WH "loved" his OW so much, he moved in with her and now they just bought a house together. I didn't "discover" the A. He came home one night and asked for a divorce for reasons of ILYBNILWY. It wasn't until a week later he admitted to the A and 2 weeks after that he was gone. Now, aside from the moral and hurtful implications of this A, the whole thing was completely out of character for him (or what I had known him to be for 17 years). This was the same man who kept a job he hated for years because he would rather put up with the status quo than make any effort to improve or change his situation. This was the same man who had never, up to this point, allowed the teensiest bit of flexibility into his value system. This is the same man who you need a crowbar to pry pennies out of his grip to buy necessities because he is obsessed with saving money. The whole affair (pun intended) was a complete divergence from the man everybody knew him to be his whole life. How can this be explained? Many possibilities include:

1. He is and always was evil and was planning this from the start. If so, he also isn't very bright as it took 17 years from his life and he could have easily ruined my life ages ago.

2. Getting his rocks off was more important to him than his family. This is probably true, but it doesn't explain why he left - I had no knowledge of the A until after he asked for a D.

3. Fog/Alien/Addiction/other MBisms. This certainly explains his continued dysfunctional logic and hostility towards me and others who have opposed his A. He's given up so much, financially as well as family and friends. And he's developed a flash-point temper that goes off at the slightest hint that the world is not supportive of him. He even can't understand why I am not supportive!!

I'm not saying that the fog/alien thing is an excuse. It is more of an explanation. WH is not behaving rational by anyone's definition. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if one day they discover that this is a mental illness of some sort. True, outright selfishness has a lot to do with having an A, and certainly there must be a point in time when a WS willingly and knowingly makes the decision to cheat. But when this becomes and ongoing thing to the point which they give up everything they have spent their entire lives building, does this sound like rational adult behavior to you?

from all I've read on here I haven't seen any WS excuse their behaviour or actions and in many many cases accept responsibility wholly for what they have done ... but we all struggle with the right words to describe how we found ourselves where we did ... "fog" is just the best description for that blurred line of thinking

like MrsW, had I not been there I wouldv'e said the same as you ... just a giant load of BS ... but I have lived it and there is something that occurs in the body & mind that clouds thought ... not that you lack ability to recognize right from wrong but you have immense difficulty choosing right

think of an alcoholic who still chooses to get behind a wheel ... not because they can't decide not to ... but because they lack the ability to formulate clear thought from the drug's effect on the mind

and I'm very sorry ... it's not just about sex ... ultimately that enters the equation but there is a whole lot more involved that precedes it ... how else can you explain people who have cyber-affairs in different states or even countries?

it's clear you have a different opinion and that is definitely you're right but I have a difficult time when people use generalizations and paint all with a same brush ... particularly when you've not experienced their perspective (not that I hope you ever have to experience the other side of an A!)

IMHO, unless and until you can be open to the idea that there just might have been some other reasoning behind the A than just sex for the sake of it you'll be leaving yourself vulnerable to it happening again

I don't know
are you Scum?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Sorry,
cheap pop ........but I didn't resort to calling anyone a name. {That I recall}

Kind of odd that this is where your mind would go though ? (at least to me)
I'd hope that not relying heavily on "The fog" concept would lead to somewhere a bit more constructive then that.

However {to the thread},
I was simply concurring with Krazy that many of the posters are letting WS's basically off the hook [of their own responsibility] by OverUsing "the Fog" rationale.
Which is a disservice to everyone involved.

I believe its true
that People KNOW what they are doing at ALL stages of an A.

Be it the pre [lead up], beginning, the middle , the end or the AfterMath.

Now whether they want to admit it & take ownership of it ...well that's a different story many times.

~cue music~
*Enter -the Fog*

For me,
the main issue is selfishness [which is at the core of every step of infidelity], rather than any addiction or Fog.

So just say that ....
"I did it" --because / I felt justified, felt entitled, felt it was finally my turn, cause I wanted too, cause I'm in pain, cause its fun, cause I was bored, cause I felt unloved, cause I'm confused, cause I'm scared, cause I wanted to see what it was like, cause I felt Whatever, ect.

Use Something we can put our finger on and hopefully address .....rather then the ever shifting, undefinable FOG.

{In any case, I get it that on a board of this size, others will disagree} ......so be it.

And even though you were attempting to be a smartazz,
yes some are Scum .......while others are only acting scummy.
However,
sadly all affairs do leave that soapy scum ring to one extent or another. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Now Get out those scrubbing bubbles and get to work. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
Or not. Its an individual choice.

Like I said, I was speaking generally. There are exceptions to every rule.

EA's don't disprove my theory because they almost always end up as PA's. If they don't, it's often purely because of logisitcal difficulties, such as distance or time.

I understand having a difficult time choosing to do the right thing. But it certainly isn't impossible, so to me the "difficult" argument goes right out the window. People do difficult things every day. Kinda like my decision to not have a RA, even though it would've been easy, simply because it was the right decision. Easy? No.

I may not be a WS, but I am human. I am in touch with reality. There are no secret, hidden stimuli that are only apparent during an A.

A wedding ceremony does not change the laws of physics.

Top Rope you are correct it is selfishness. If the WS was in the BS shoes they would understand that.

I do not believe for one minute that my FWH had no control over his actions. He went there, he got naked, he screwed her. Nothing made him do it.