First and foremost I am standing for my marriage. I truly believe that this is the path that G-d is directing me to take. I am proud of my Judaism, but this is a spiritual battle that I am willing to go to any lengths to fight. I am asking for help in becoming an A student of Plan A. I thought I was there, but obviously I wasn’t. Mimi, asked me to put it out to all of you that I NEED help. I need guidance on what I am doing wrong and learn to understand what I am trying to achieve, develop a plan and keep moving forward.

I have bought and read (twice), SAA and HNHN. I regularly come to this website and read as much as I can and print out as much to take to bed and read. Financially I can’t afford to talk to the Harley’s. I did once this summer and got some direction which I followed, but my WH wouldn’t agree to call him. At one point this summer, my H said he was coming home, but the WH is back, stronger than ever and happily living with OW in their own house.

Let me begin with my successes so you can see that I am not sitting around waiting for my WH to be fixed and come home. Both my WH and I have been sober for many years – specifically me over 20 and him over 18. BUT we didn’t work a recovery program and for 14 or more years lived in a dry drunk. Almost a week from D-day, I went back to AA, got a sponsor, and began diligently working a recovery program. I have addressed every addiction I have including, food, finances, and to some extent sex. I have lost 77 ¾ lbs, given up sugar and exercise regularly, though that could always do better.

The greatest accomplishment is my relationship with G-d has become most important in my life. I am deeply overwhelmed by G-d’s steadfast love and support in walking me through the valley of the deepest darkness’s I have ever known. There were days I simply wanted to either drink and use or blow my brains out and end this pain.

Today I am truly in a place where I know that G-ds plan is for me to become the woman he always envisioned. Part of that is becoming a whole, healthy woman and to do that I have sought out spiritual mentors, IC on personal issues, as well as MC from a spiritual basis. I read Torah and other scriptures daily as well as seek G-d for all the things in my life. I walk in trust that G-d is standing along side of me for my marriage and needs me to trust him by staying out of my WH way and let G-d have him completely.

My two younger DS (18 and 14) figured out about the affair and confronted their dad. They were so mad they told WH he was dead to them and they wouldn’t live in the same house as him. My WH moved out has not come home – b/c the boys told him to leave. We have been married for almost 24 years. My WH has been having a RA since May 2006. I completely believe he is in the addictive R, but I want to learn and understand more so what he does and how he acts stops surprising me. I give this tone of understanding lip service, but clearly I am missing something somewhere and not sure why.

Currently, my children and I have moved into an apt. I couldn’t afford to keep the house. We have NO legal separation agreement. His OW is a 45 yr old - twice divorced chronic crack user with Hep C who is on state disability. She doesn’t work and stays home all day long taking care of his every whim. She has 3 children (30, 20, and 19 – and this one has 3 children). My WH has pretty much no relationship with any of my 3 children. He emails our youngest pretty regularly, but never of any substance.

WH believes he has apologized to each child and has become the victim in all this because they don’t want to have anything to do with him. It’s no different than any other WH totally under the control of the alienation force and fog. Actually one difference he is passive-aggressive. My WH is very upset that none of us acknowledged his birthday. At that time, it was suggested I stay out of his life and leave him alone, so I did.

I worked a Plan A during the summer that actually had an affect on him, to the point of where he was coming home, but WH appeared and has stayed ever since. It has been observed by Mimi, that my WH has no respect for me and that is UNATTRACTIVE. I never sent a Plan B letter, so I really wasn’t in that either. Last weekend I committed to working the very best Plan A that I can. But clearly I am not doing very well and missing the boat. I was directed by Mimi to ask for help. And I am. I will go to any lengths and am willing to take whatever hits you deem are necessary.

I don’t know where to begin Plan A again, I don’t know if I should be contacting him regularly by phone or email and letting him know what’s going on in the house? I want to build respect for myself and ultimately have him notice. Also, I need a little more guidance on understanding reverse babble (like he says – I gave you everything I had or I held on as long as I could). I want to learn how to respond to him. And honestly, I want to become an expert of Plan A to help those who come after me. This is the most horrific thing anyone can go through and if G-d wants to use me to help others, I am at his service. Mimi, advised me to put myself out there and so I am. Please help me.

SG
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

I've heard Dr. Harley state numerous times on the radio show that women generally can't do Plan A for more than a few weeks. Considering that you've already done a Plan A, which you thought had an impact, it's now time for you to be in Plan B.

BH

Well, a couple of reasons...Mimi felt like my H has no respect for me and that since I didn't send a Plan B letter, I wasn't really in Plan B. She felt that going back to Plan A for awhile was best and then sending a letter for Plan B.

I actually have a lot of Plan A left in me because I haven't been around him. I would like to do that for awhile and then start Plan B correctly.

I have NO legal separation in place and rely on him for 1/2 his paycheck.

Does that make sense?

SG

Well...

There is no reason you can't just wait it out.

If he is indeed a long term addict who is in an affair with another addict who is actively using..let's be frank...he is probably using too.

Eventually he is going to crash and burn and I think...you know..if you CAN just keep up plan A and you WANT to then there isn't any reason not to wait it out.

Most affairs end, most addictions eventually crash.

I would be polite and pleasant and attractive for awhile and then just withdraw and let him kiss pavement [aka let God deal with him].

I would not encourage you to put him in a position where he has the opportunity to be disrespectfull to you.

Do you understand what I mean?

I would not give him the CHANCE to be disrespectfull by making no demands and allowing no intimacies. Just show him all the changes you have made...and be pleasant..and be busy and allow the contrast between how you live your life and how OW does to sink in.

Eventually he will look at his inebriated and ill OW laying lazily in bed and look at you sunshine and daisies and he will have to admit that you have a better life.

Then the question becomes..is he willing to stop being an addict and go live it with you or not.

Hey Noodle,

WH has been clean and sober for over 18 years. I don't have any reason to believe he is using. But I also know that could be a lie. OW doesn't use all the time, but it seems to be chronic. From what I have read about A, he is totally into an addiction with the R., I am not sure it is substances that he's involved him. Certainly he is still in a major dry drunk.

<I would not give him the CHANCE to be disrespectfull by making no demands and allowing no intimacies.> Noodle - Can you clarify what you consider demands?

How often should I be in contact with him? Part of me wants to email him often and let him know what's going on with the boys' life, but I don't know if that's a good idea or not. What do you think. How should I be in contact with him - phone, email or whatever? I CAN and am totally willing to keep up Plan A, actually I am stronger than I was back this summer. I just need to vent on here sometimes to let me know where my stinking thinking is going off. Does that make sense?

Friends on the "outside" don't understand this and people here do.

I do need to work on the reverse babble, any thoughts there?

SG

If the OW is a crackhead, I don't believe that she doesn't use "all the time". Crack is an insiduously addictive drug, and I believe that it can be almost instantly addictive with the first use. Our ex-Son-in-law is a crack user, who spends every penny he can get his hands on to feed his addiction, and has been a crackhead for the past 14 years. We forbade him to come to our house after we started finding things missing, and had to start following him around, even to the bathroom, just to keep him from stealing from us.

SG,

God said through the prophet Isaiah:

I live in a high and lofty place, but also with the contrite and lowly in spirit, to revive the spirit of the lowly and to revive the heart of the contrite...I have seen his ways, says the Lord, and I will heal him...Peace, peace to those far and near...and I will heal them.

And through the prophet Jeremiah He said:

I know the plans I have for you, plans to prosper and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.

David wrote:

I waited patiently for the Lord; He turned to me and heard my cry. He lifted me out of the slimy pit, out of the mud and mire; He set my feet upon a rock and gave me a firm place to stand...Blessed is the man who makes the Lord his trust...

And another Psalm; a prayer of an afflicted man:

My days vanish like smoke; my bones burn like glowing embers. My heart is blighted and whithered like grass; I forget to eat my food...For I eat ashes as my food and mingle my drink with tears...But you, O Lord, sit enthroned forever.



Just a few things that gave me hope and strength when I was at my lowest...

Mark

Hi Lady,

I have only the WH's word on what she does. I have no idea. Honestly, her using can only help the disintegration of the relationship or create a completely dysfunctional one.

The anger that emerces from him and directed at me is amazing. And yet as I write this, it brings comfort. My rabbi told me that my H is a fire breathing dragon directing his fire at me. And it will get worse. He was write, he is getting angrier and more controlling.

Mark,

Your words of comfort and awesome and thank you. I need such strength and hope. I also need to continue to walk in G-d's path and pray for patience.

I do wonder if there is anything you see that I might not be doing?

On a personal note, I completed my 8th step tonight and am ready to move onto the 9th.

Shabbat Shalom,
SG

SG,

All I can tell you is that little things over time make the difference. Beware the trap of unfulfilled expectations. That will bite you faster than anything else.

Also beware the trap of settling in and allowing the WS to remain that way with no consequences. Eventually you will probably have to go to Plan B to save your sanity. Don't simply adjust to life the way it is, but don't expect him to respond the way you want right off the bat.

Aleychem Shalom!

Mark

Mark,

What do you mean, not allowing the WS to remain that way with no consequences?

I received an email from WH yesterday that said:

Deposite made this afternoon. Several were sent to Tahoma and others to WWDB.
When you returned the camera last the short lens was not included. Please return it with the camera this time. When are you going to return it?
Thank you WH

Earlier in the week I had given him a couple of requests when emailing me. My feelings were really up after reading this and I so wanted to give him quite an answer back.

So, this is what I emailed back:
Shabbat Shalom,

I am being accountable to receiving your email and thanking you for the deposit. The money issue is not complete for me, but I am not sure what I need from you at this point to complete it.

Upon reading this email I find my feelings and buttons are being pushed.

I need to pray and seek G-d for what is happening, what my part of this is and respond. I would appreciate patience, as I am finding G-d doesn't answer me immediately.

Have a nice weekend, BS

This is what he emailed back last night:
Shabbot Shalom

Nothing was ment to push buttons or hurt feelings. I am sorry if it came accros that way Im tired and kept iot short.
WH

My prayers have led me to the thought and remember I am Jewish <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> But that someone told me of Jesus, I think. That when you are slapped on the cheek by someone give them the other cheek.

So, if I need to utilize every opportunity of showing WH I am a different person b/c of my relationship and commitment to G-d I was going to answer him this way.

H,
I heard a story once that when you are slapped in the cheek, turn your other cheek to them. So in that spirit of G-d, I hadn't realized how important our camera was to you. I am more committed to our marriage than any materialistic item, so please know that I am leaving the camera at our friends house and you can go by and pick it up anytime.

Mark - what do you think? Is this a Plan A response, more importantly a response how G-d would like me to?

Thanks,
SG

All you expert Plan A'ers,

I leave Monday with my two boys to spend Thanksgiving at my H's sisters house. I have not once asked him if he wanted to go.

He is still with OW. But I was thinking it was worth a try? What do you think? He probably won't say yes, and I am afraid I will get hurt, but as a student of Plan A, what would be the way to go?

SG

SG,

What I meant by not just allowing the WS to remain that way with no consequences was that if you allow him to stay with OW and continue in Plan A indefinitely, with nothing in the way of pressure from you he has no need to change anything. He has you for emotional support and the skank for whatever he needs the skank for.

If you make peace between him and the kids, he has no reason to address his problems relative to the kids.

If you remind him of upcoming birthdays and things of that sort, he has no need to get his head out of his butt and take responsibility for keeping track of his own [email]cr@p.[/email]

And if you are nice to him after he has been nasty to you, you are basically rewarding him for his bad behavior and just like a dog that gets scraps from the table after begging, he is being trained that what he is doing is not only acceptable but the preferred course of action.

I wouldn't waste a lot of time trying to figure out whether something is appropriate as a Plan A reaction to his actions or not. I think you need to be getting your Plan B ducks in a row and figuring out what you are going to need to get into Plan B. You probably need a LSA and LCA in order to guarantee your family finances.

You need to be thinking about all of this because while turning the other cheek is likely to make points with God, it isn't going to ever get your H to change anything. He needs to SUFFER from his choices before he can see them to be bad choices. As long as you are willing to take what he throws your way and expect nothing else, you're going to get what you are getting.

Remember that Plan B is NOT giving up, only stopping the drama so that you don't have to deal with it while you wait to see if he ever gets his poop grouped.

Mark

Mark,

I completely understand with what you are saying. Part of why I am trying to Plan A for a little while is because I went into hiding and never wrote a Plan B letter. Mimi suggested I was never in Plan B.

As for Plan B, I only need a LSA, two of my three kids are adults and the younger one is 14 and wants nothing to do with him. One of the things I have completely done is stayed out of his relationship with the kids and feel the full brunt of not having his family. That's why WH feels like the victim in all this. He told the boys sorry, but they still want nothing to do with him. Imagine that. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

So basically, stay low, don't take his crap or call him on it like I did in that email?

Do you see what I am saying or am I totally missing something? Sorry to be so dunce. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

SG

Ok, I have read pages and pages of Mimi's from the early days and I so parallel to her.

So, I am asking for HELP!!

My WH must be feeling so much pain of not having his kids around for the holidays and no relationship whatsoever. I want to write him an email and let him know he is missed and there is a hole in our family. I am at his sister's house for the holidays and he is with OW.

Everything I hear about him says he isn't happy. Should I keep our of G-ds way and let him keep on doing what he is doing in his life. I'm scared that the "victim" attitude will push him farther away.

Should I do it, what should it say? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Please respond....
SG

Mimi,

I have a question, if I haven't spoken basically to WH for over a month and not once talked about us staying together, how would WH know where things stand between us.

SG

SG

Unfortunately, one of the things that you and I both have to come to acceptance with is that our WS's know -exactly- where things stand between us and them.. they are in the driver's seat of this crazy ride. It's their decisions that put us where we are. Only they can decide when the ride stops. Our choice is whether or not it's worth staying around to see the finish.

Jamesus,

It is so hard to think of it that way, but you are right. And sadly, today I still choose to stay for the finish. I love him that much and believe in him that much.

Do you think they realize what they are doing and are having fun or do you think they are so far gone they don't have a clue about any of this.

How are you doing?

SG

You both have more control than you think. While it seems that WS is in control of the ride, the truth is that YOU can get off when ever you wish. WS has to stay till the end. They are the ones who can't stop the ride.

It will be you who decides to call it an end. And Plan B lets you get off the ride and let it continue without you. No more drama...no more pain...no more dealing with it all the time.

That is the power you have.

You are both more powerful than you think...

Mark

Mark,

I actually hadn't thought of it that way. And I would imagine when are heart and mind are in sync is when we are getting off the ride?

Is this something that you just intuitively feel or know or how do you know when it happens. What was it like for you, if you did Plan B?

SG

SG,

I remember feeling terrified of Plan B. I could think of so many reasons that it would not "work". I was so afraid of how angry it would make him, thinking that it would push him away further.

As weeks passed, I began to see how it could be effective, but not in MY situation. More weeks passed, and I began to contemplate what Plan B would look like for me. Then I started working Plan B out on paper...boundaries, timing, what it would take for me to ALLOW him to come home... it's this kind of thinking change that PUTS you in the driver's seat. Then I started Plan Bing as much as possible without doing the letter. I couldn't officially Plan B because of some timing issues, but I knew at that time it was just a few weeks away. I began really looking forward to Plan B. It seemed like it would be a safe haven. But then, I began to wonder if I just wanted to throw in the towel and be done. I remember Melody telling me I had waited too long to Plan B (because I said I was done and had nothing left for him). Thankfully, although I was very close to that point, there was still something deep inside that I had tucked away. So when he did return, completely broken, it could spark again.

H has told me that it was the "Plan B" kind of stuff that made a big impact on him. It was the CONSEQUENCES of his actions that they feel when we step out of the picture. It was truly feeling like he wasn't a part of our family, without me rescuing him from feeling that way. His parents had a friendly divorce, and they celebrated holidays together and stuff like that. I knew that was what he envisioned. I wanted him to really KNOW what divorce from me would be like. I wanted him to KNOW that he either WAS or WAS NOT my H. He wasn't going to get to PLAY H when he felt like it.

The point I am trying to make is that I was at first very fearful of the consequences of Plan B to me. When I started taking the actions to prepare for Plan B, my thinking began to change. I gradually began embracing the idea of Plan B, and eventually could see it as a blessing to me regardless of how it impacted my H.

Your H is still enjoying his cake walk. If you feel you really need to Plan A longer, perhaps allow yourself only a couple weeks. During that time, PREPARE for Plan B; and your heart and mind may begin to move into sync as you prepare.