Are you SERIOUS? What kind of COUNSELOR is this? Do you pay this person money to tell you this CRAP?



That is not a reason to go out with another man at this point and be as adulterous as your HUSBAND. How could this contribute to your self-esteem?



You've got some steps to take before PLAN B, IMO. That's what I was helping you with tonight. He's gotta know that you want the marriage, want to reconcile with him because you LOVE him, he's got to FEEL that love FROM you although he may not FEEL the love that he has for you. Make sense? What will your reconciliation be like? Where will you live, etc.?

So I think he's gotta get comfortable talking to you. I suspected that would happen..that he would eventually begin calling you..that's what my H did....after he left..he started the phone calls...he's missing you, Bracha..YOU ARE HIS HISTORY. She is a PRESENT. HE HAS TO KNOW THAT THERE CAN be a FURTURE with YOU. He only has the PRESENT with her..they are living day to day...he's trying to keep that HIGH going off of her..

Next step is for you two to begin meeting...

Is it too cold to practice FRISBEE?

How about him going with you on WALKS? He'll be helping you out with your WORKOUT. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

You will be NEGOTIATING his RETURN...an important aspect of PLAN A which needs to be implemented.

MAKE SENSE?

I did good then?

Yes, oh what a blessed day indeed. I can't believe he called me to tell me about the snow. And he really liked the fudge.

So, suggestions for tomorrow? Wait, I'll think about it and pray and wait for the lord to answer. Actually JT and I are meeting up north and going shopping. I am really looking forward to meeting her.

I just got home from closing the dueling piano bar place. For the first time I had a really good time. I sang and danced and in my new body and got up on stage.

This was a good day for me. I went and saw hubby early, had a MC counseling session, an IC counseling session, shopped (a little frivously <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />), went exercising, went tanning, got a call from my hubby, called him back and talked to him, and then spent almost a full hour online with him, laughing and talking, told him I loved him, and then went out.

I have a lot to thank G-d for tonight and be grateful. Wow, I am in awe of G-d for the day he gave me. And thank you Mimi. You are such a blessing in my life, please know how much I appreciate the time you are giving me.

Bracha

You "IYHO" is what I an following. You are the captain and I am learning everything I can, so keep me on the path. I'm not sure what I am doing, but all of what you are saying makes sense. I just am not sure HOW to accomplish it or set it up. Yes, I can call him and ask him if he could meet me one day and throw the frisbee around, or maybe when he comes over I could ask him to walk down to the school and we could go throw there? Let me pray for possibilities and ask G-d to let it happen.

I am not sure I understand about the NEGOTIATING HIS RETURN. Can you help me understand it better, please. Also how is it different than what I have been doing for a few weeks now? Can you also help me understand better how he's gotta know I want the marriage. How could he NOT know after all this time I am still doing what I am doing. Does my question make sense or am I missing something here?

BTW - on the dating issue I am NOT listening to the counselor. I am deeply committed to standing for my marriage. She really believes that I am TOO hard on myself and doesn't understand that what my WH is doing is an addiction. She only sees how hurt I am. Her heart is in the right place, but I am also up front with her that I wasn't going to take her up on that idea.

Sounds like you have been busy!! That is good!

The tanning, exercising, and going out - all Great Goddess like activities.

But, I'd like to know more about this -



What did you talk about? It sounds like it went well? How were you interacting with him in a way that was meeting his ENs? How were you engaging him? What seemed to make him responsive during this exchange?

These are all key things to be aware of so that you can continue to use them in the future. Sounds like whatever you were doing was making him feel Good, making him feel Comfortable in engaging with you!!!

Hi Bugs,

How's the snow level over there?

I talked to him about how the rest of his day at work went. And then asking qualifying questions from that. Everytime he has me a question (not very often) I would answer it and then follow it up with a compliment.

I asked him if it was snowing outside, he went and checked for me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I thanked him and told him I was hoping it would snow for him.

I asked him about what was wrong with his ONE friend that still talks to him truck. He told me, and then I asked engaging questions about that. Like how much money it would take to fix it, how long. He said "Mark said", then I asked him about who Mark was, he reminded me and then I told him I was thinking of an old friend of ours and asked him about him. Oh darn, I just thought of how I could have gotten a great memory in. It was Passover Seders at our house which was a huge tradition. I'll have to work that one in somehow. Because not only will OW not know how to pull one off, but HE won't be WELCOME to his friends house with her and then one EN - family commitment won't be met.

Because we are supposed to have some snow I asked him when he was going to work on the car and he told me either tonight, tomorrow or Sunday. I asked about my car and he said he didn't know when, but he would have time this weekend. I made a joke about offering him fudge as a bribe. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


We are extremely comfortable around each other when it is the H. Have been since this whole thing blew up. The challenge is... and this has always been a problem, I am WAY more FULL of LIFE. The other real letting loose and having fun is when he is playing sports. And that doesn't include me on the field.

What seemed to make him responsive...other than the WH wasn't as strong, he wasn't tired, or frustrated with her. I don't know, that's the part I haven't been able to figure out. Sometimes he is one word sentences and has to go really quick. Tonight he just kept talking.

I KNOW he loves to talk and have me listen. Making time for him was one of the biggest complaints. He WANTS to be the center of my world. My sense is that OW isn't nearly as "wordly" or able to process things as easily as me. DUH she is a crack addict for gosh sakes, but nonetheless, when he first left he told me she was intelligent. My DD told me that is so not true and she heard an exchange over the phone where he talks down to her.

I am able to talk to him about football, sports in general, Judaism, his work, car stuff, history, politics, drugs and alcohol stuff, actually just about anything and once I ask questions he usually chirps like a bird.

On the phone he is most comfortable talking to me. We have GREAT conversations where I try to meet as many needs as I can.

Where can I improve or do differently do you see?

I decided last night that I wanted to leave him an email when he woke up in the morning. This was a way of conversation that up until about 3 months before D-day we didn't have. We used it quite a lot and when D-day happened, he told me, that she and he didn't communicate that way. He offered to show me on the computer. I probably should have said yes so I could have gotten his password. Oh well, I wasn't thinking clearly. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

So here is the email I sent him, actually one of them.

Good morning WH,

My hope for you is to have a spectacular day and know that all you have done for me is completely appreciated. You are an amazing man.

I don't think you got the snow you were hoping for, but I know how much you love it, as do I and hopefully there will be lots of it this Shabbat.

I look forward to hearing your laughter soon and seeing the smile in your eyes.

B

Here is his response:
Good mourning, no snow yet but I hope later. Have a great day and a good Shabbot
WH

This is the other email that I sent him, but he didn't respond to this one. Which I kinda find interesting.

WH:
It's important to me that you know that I haven't forgotten to send some of Aaron's pictures. I am having a little technical difficulty trying to figure out where the heck I put them. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

My eyes are a little sore and my brain is full from tonight, so I will do that first thing in the morning and take care of it for you.

B

I am looking for feedback on what I could have done better or what I shouldn't have done. Thank you for your help, truly.

Bracha

Here's what I did today.

I brought hubby MORE Fudge and spent appr. 1/2 hour up in his office alone talking with him. Laughing and touching him lovingly. Asking him to show me his job, engaging him in conversations.

Not only did I bring him fudge, but I brought him pictures of our Thanksgiving this year without him, pictures of our cabin and pictures of his neices and great nephews and neices. I also on the caption piece included a picture of us on our cruise with our wedding rings on top of the Tanakh or bible. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I told him I had more pictures for him.

I said I was looking forward to him coming over to help me with the car and he teased me about what car. We teased back and forth and joked for a little while. He said he needed to get back to work and as I went to leave he asked me a question, I closed the door and talked some more, all the while, standing right next to him, hugging him, touching his neck, leaning over his desk, etc.

Then I went to leave two more times and each time he asked me a question, which I came back in and answered. Then, I asked him if he would take me out and play frisbee with me. After teasing and flirting he finally agreed.

He got a call and I finally said, ok cutie, see ya soon. I love you and walked out. He didn't really hear me or respond. Who knows. But it was another blessed day.

JT agrees that I should head up to his game tomorrow regardless if she is there or not.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

His co-workers were thoroughly impressed with my fudge, as I left, I told them I wanted to get my husband back. I asked one if he was a praying man, he kinda laughed. I said if so, I am not above bribes and would bring him his own fudge. He told me I was on. So, now I have two of his employees on board to support me winning him back.

On my way to AA to remember who I am, but I have more to write about one thing we talked about which was very interesteing. Back in two hours.

Shabbat Shalom all,
Bracha

Bracha,

I don't remember if I have posted to you before but I want to tell you that as a Christian, I am helped and inspired when I read of your faith and courage in the God of your understanding.
That's all.

Chrysalis,

Hi there, no I don't believe you have posted before. Thank you for taking time now to. It means a lot. Sometimes when the nights are late and I have trouble going to sleep, it really helps to have someone say this.

I do have FAITH and BELIEVE G-d is grooming me for something very special. Of course I hope and pray and believe it's his will to bring my H home some day hopefully soon. I have to completely TRUST that he is working this whole situation out to the good and I will be blessed no matter what.

My G-d is a very patient one with me, so as James and JT keep reminding me, wait on the Lord. He will provide.

I hope to hear from you soon - Warmly,
Bracha

Well, I am off to watch hubby play soccer. It's 7:30 am and one of the biggest gripes he has was that I wouldn't get up this early to watch him play.

I gotta tell ya, he could be there or not be there. It's a 40 minutes drive for a hope. But he is worth it and G-d wants me to do it.

I'm scared, but I walk with G-d and he is my Shepherd and will take care of me.

Remember I said there was one other thing to say from yesterday. It was so weird, we were having this awesome time and discussion and then he asked me a question about going to services. I said that I usually went to AA meetings on Friday and we talked about our sobriety dates. I asked him what day his was, and he said I have no clue, it's not important to me. I tried to engage him in conversation and I swear he started shuffling papers and got extremely nervous. He admits to the years, but doesn't care about the date. Hmmm.... I wonder what that was about. Could he be H knows deep inside he is in an addiction and I hit a nerve? Because when I saw him online last night, he was completely back to WH and short abrupt and just left.

What goes on in those minds?

Wish me luck that he even shows up.

Bracha

Bracha,

My posts are usually on the recovery forum, but I come over here to check out a few threads every couple of days, and yours is one I try to follow.

Take care, you really do rock!

Chrisalis, you are too kind. I will wonder over there later.

Ok, here's what I have done for today. I went to his game, he was there playing and shocked to see me. It was raining and his shirt was getting wet, so he took it off and I asked if I could hold it, "Yes, please".

I said good morning in my sweetest voice and smile, he said morning and asked what I was doing there. I said "coming to watch you play".

I am not totally sure, but I think OW was in the car, so I marked "MY TERRITORY" and watched the whole game. I had some music on and I danced while I was there. I kept looking to see if she was in the car, and I was stunned she didn't get out of the car. But since coming home, he received a call on his cell phone from their home phone and I am not sure she was there.

Either way, its a total win win for me. If she wasn't there, I met his recreational companionship need. If she was there, oh if you could see how bold I was about looking straight in the car and strutting my stuff. I was talking to people who were playing. I so tried to find the right opportunity to introduce myself as his wife, but it didn't present itself.

I know they are playing on Monday, I am going up there for sure. Regardless of whether she is there or not. And I know just what to wear. I wore a black sweatshirt that has MY LAST NAME on it. And he was wearing a sweatshirt that he got in Mass a few years back. I haven't been able to weat mine because it was too small. Guess what fits. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> And with any bit of luck she will be there and I WILL be wearing the same shirt as him and SHE WON'T HAVE ONE.

He was not extremely comfortable with me and after the game tried to get away from me really quickly. I made sure to give him a hug, right in front of her if she was there and told him I loved him. He did ask me what I was doing for the weekend. I said baking, he said again? And then I said playing a Monopoly tournament with our son. I told him I was looking forward to him coming over. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

He called me on the way home, didn't leave a message. I called him right back and left a message. Hi sweetie, I see you called and I am returning you call. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

He was just online a few minutes ago, I told him he played good and I really enjoyed watching him. Thanks...

Funny thing.... he didn't respond. The WH is back and bringing out his horrible self.

So, help me. Did I utilize the situation as best as possible? What could I have done better or differently?

I am off to exercise and fake and bake, then come home and bake for real and start that tourney. I'll keep checking in to see what you say and what I should be doing next.

I learned something today, Mimi. I learned that I am the WIFE and I can go anywhere I want and hold my head up high and say I am his wife and talk to the people around him. She CAN'T b/c she is the OW and will be that way for a long time. And while I am around, people won't respect her because I am gracious, friendly, outgoing, and love to meet new people. I can extend my hand in friendship as his wife, she can't. I didn't realize the fun I can have with this until I go dark.

Shabbat Shalom,
Bracha

You know, if you are in the right mind a girl could almost have some fun with this. However, I think WH is a little pissed off right now.
Here's how our online interaction went. For all you experts HELP... did I do something wrong?

me: what cha up to

WH: looking for a car

me: how come

WH: tab expire this month

me: ?

WH: cars arnt registered in name yet and cant afford to

me: I thought that was taken care of. why don't you just drive the Sub

WH: Gas 100 a week I cant afford

me: true
how expensive is it to transfer the name?
are you having any luck

WH: Tax on a 2001 or 1997 are at value because they were both gifts
Some we will see

me: so what do you do with them
that sucks, doesn't it

WH: Sell hopefully

me: how long have you been looking for one

WH: On and off I always look but serious now

me: LOL
I had a fabulous time watching you at soccer. How is your ankle

WH: Fine

me: good
Is it snowing? The sun was out here for awhile, while I was walking around
Its defintely not cold enough here

WH: No to warm and sunny

me: bummer
do you have access to myspace

WH: NO

me: well, DYS did an awesome tribute to Sean Taylor on it with music. I was kinda proud of him

WH: Good thats great

me: Hey you, thanks for talking to me. I want to go irritate the boys for awhile. good luck on your search and let me know if I can help in anyway.

WH: Have a good night got to go start the BBQ

me: ok, you too. I'll miss you

What could I have done differently. Clearly my showing up today shook him. He wasn't as friendly as he was over the last two days or as open to talk. Hmmm. Defintely the WH.

SG,

Just gotta let you know how much you rock at Plan A.

You've got timing, respect and great coaches like Mimi.

You blow me away.

Want to ask about marital property...not that I understood the IM recap well...is he talking about selling cars which maritally are both of yours?

I hope every BW reads your thread. You are the wife...you strut, woman.

I would only suggest saying "I miss my husband" instead of "I miss you".

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Thanks for your inspiration.

LA

LA,

You have no idea how much I needed this tonight. For some reason I am feeling like a failure. Somehow I have to remember I am in a WAR and it's a series of battles I am in.

I really need to hear this encouragement because I don't see it or understand it. So how do I have timing and respect, what is it that I am doing. As for the coaches - I thank G-d everyday that Mimi is coachng me.

As for the marital property. He isn't selling "our" cars. If you can believe this, when he moved in with OW, she was taking care of an old man who was dying. This old man gifted OW and WH with cars. Or at least that is what he says. I am actually a little concerned he is buying a car with her name on the title. Can he do that? Or is it partly mine since there is NO LSA with us yet. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I will definetly change the wording to missing my husband, next chance I get.

Everytime I get now I am talking to him as much and as long as possible. Is that a good thing or should I back off?

Sounds like you had some hidden expectations about going to see WH play today.

Those sure can kick our butts and give us the signal of failing.

Not real, though, are they? You caught the battle vs. the war right away.

We have internal battles, too.

Your great timing is in not deluging WH during the game and not in staying silent. You were right in the middle. And you did what you regreted not doing previously. You amended that act of care, to meet his EN.

Way to go. So you're looking for clarity, reinforcement, assurance...wanna share what the voice in your head is saying about your choices today which is distressing you?

Were you proud of your actions and words today? Did they stand up to the standards you made for yourself?

Hey, where he spends his money while married is an issue. You're married. His debt is your debt...and vice versa, in the majority of states. Up to you to get clarity on the laws pertaining to this...and no, wouldn't have known myself until my marriage was ending.

When you change your wording, you are enforcing your boundary of honesty around yourself. Clarifying. Act of self-care and self-respect, in my book.

Temper keeping him talking. You're keeping it short...I prefer to see it as respect of choice...he chooses to speak or not, IM or not, for how long...from his own whys.

You are saddled with the same responsibility. I remember marking every breath I could hear DWH take on the phone three years ago. I remember.

Key to Plan A is to stay present (don't allow your thoughts to zoom into the past or the future while you speak and listen)...do listen and repeat when he talks about his stuff (his thoughts, feelings, beliefs, perceptions)...so you hand back his stuff to him...and don't swallow it down in judgment about you, pertaining to you...being the cause, control or cure of him and his actions.

You know you aren't. You got AA. You might also want to attend Alanon meetings...your loved one is in an addiction, isn't he?

LA

LA, I don't know how to use the quote thing, can you help me with that.

I was extremely proud of my actions and my words today. It felt good to be there as his wife and feel the love I had for my H.

I think I might be getting caught up in the expectation that it might have made a difference. Partly because the last two days I had a calmer more engaged person than the monster. I really can't stand the WH and when he is around I get more nervous that I am saying or doing something wrong.

I need a little more reinforcement on the debt thing. You see, he can't get a loan, so he won't be in debt on the car. He will just have a insurance bill which has been separated. He absolutely doesn't feel that what he does with his money is any of my business. In fact that's why I am looking to get the LSA.

I don't really get much in the way of beliefs, thoughts, perceptions, or feelings. I really just get fluff most of the time.

I actually have started going to AlAnon.

He is in an addiction and I of all people should really get this. I do when I am talking to someone else, but somehow my mind waters down the significance of it.

Hi Queenie!

You did great today! Something you said in one of your posts struck me-about knowing that you are his wife and you can hold your head high. You do have that bearing in you, it's something I noticed but you put it into words. Absolutely you are the "Queen."

Just wanted you to know.

Looking forward to our next get-together. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Hi JT,

I love my bracelet. Can I keep it on always and take showers or does it need to come off?

Thanks for saying that. You noticed that bearing in me when we were together? I have the worst self-esteem.

I gotta tell you, you are one amazingly beautiful woman. I felt so safe and comfortable with you yesterday, thank you for meeting me.

How late were you at the mall?

Yes, let's get together soon.

Love

Ok all, get the 2 x 4's out.

Here I am getting slaughtered my son, and laughing hysterically. I might add we are watching football as well. I am creating memories and a home for our children. And yet, I think that I am missing out because H isn't here.

WH who prefers to spend his time with crack ho. We really need to come up with a better name. I mean she is after all a child of G-d as well and hurting in her own life or she wouldn't do what she is doing.

I need to get rid of this stinkin thinkin. Please hit me.