Thanks Orchid,

Yes, I was reading those war of words.

Yes, you are correct. One day before we moved from my house, my WH brought OW over to the house to look through stuff to see what "they" wanted for "their" house. I didn't realize they had gone through my food.

And then to rub my nose in it, just shows how cruel he can be. But then, I have been Plan Aing him pretty good apparently that it would go to show he has to hurt me and see what I do. I didn't get mad, I turned it into a joke.

He just really doesn't get I have changed and how much I love him.

Mimi is working me real hard to Plan B. I like your motto, because where I am totally capable of Plan Aing him in person, I don't like dealing with WH online. It is way too impersonal and my feelings seem to get hurt easier.

What cha having for dinner?

Talk to you soon?

Take care

What method of communication do you feel safe when you have to communicate with the WS?

For me it was e-mails since it had a lower impact on the emotions. I could post, think and revise before I hit send. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

For dinner I had goulash and rice. Oh yea.... and a Hawaiian Harvey Wallbanger. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

L.

Mark explains this well, IMO. IT'S JUST A FACT. That's how I came to accept it. Steve Harley told me that: "If you want to recover your marriage, YOU HAVE GOT TO GET THIS!!"

"Is it possible to do too much at this point."

You say this A LOT. Where does this thinking come from?

You have LIMITED CONTACT with him. It's best to do PLAN A with your WH at home. You are doing this from afar and doing WELL given his limited availability. Your goal is to FILL HIS LOVE BANK. You already have discovered that he limits your access to him. I don't think you have opportunity to do TOO MUCH..whatever that means...

"What am I working towards for Plan B? And when will we know it's TIME?"


Now that he has become comfortable talking with you, the conversation will need to eventually turn towards a PLAN FOR RECONCILIATION...a few or more direct talks with him about how you want to get back together..how that will specifically by accomplished...and for him to tell you HIS REASONS why that cannot happen...and then for you to DIRECTLY tell him that you will get a LSA given his unwillingness to reconcile...

SO: More one-on-one meetings...introduction of specific discussion regarding reconciliation..this is the NEGOTIATION I was speaking of...when/if he says "NO WAY" for whatever FOGGISH REASONS....then you tell him that you will "LET HIM GO" and you will seek a LSA....once that is done, you give him the PLAN B LETTER....

I'm saying that these PRELIMINARY CONVERSATIONS are necessary...you are giving him the HEADS UP prior to PLAN B..you are informing him about the MarriageBuilders POV: "I have changed..we can reconcile and have a new and better marriage..let's work on this TOGETHER....You are saying: "THIS IS WHAT I BELIEVE AND WHAT I WANT..I WANT YOU"...

"Then I think I will pretty much back off. Or should I keep going."

Do you want to BACK OFF because you are TIRED of doing this? Are you losing your love for your H? That's when to back off...when YOUR LOVE BANK starts to dwindle..Remember this is ALL ABOUT YOU...

"Does having a MLC putting more of a wrench into this or just more "typical" WW crud?"


I think my H had a MLC..but it doesn't matter..the MBers PLANS remain the same...and your WH sounds typical..The only thing is: He is a recovering substance abuser. Are you sure he isn't using the other stuff given that she is using...that's what would make your situation different...

Come to think of it, you might want to throw in the idea that he may be ADDICTED to her..just throw it out since a part of him is knowledgeable about addictions...My H finally accepted and acknowledged his addiction..and it was HELPFUL in his understanding of what had happened to him...

About the car...If he puts it in his name though, he is responsible for the payment. The credit bureaus will only know about him. That's what I liked about the stuff that my H bought when he was on his own. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

"How are you doing Mimi, what are you up to?"

I only post when my H is not at home or asleep and he has been off for the holidays. We are going away for a few days early next week so that's how come I may not be around...

You've got a lot to work on...SEE ABOVE... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Keep away from that STINKIN THINKIN...

Orchid,
[quote} What method of communication do you feel safe when you have to communicate with the WS? [/quote]

Really any method. The online is most hurtful to me when he does his come and go or real quick short answers that rub in my face what is happening over on that side of the street. Face to face when she isn't around we have a great time and talk very well. Rather he talks and I listen.
I don't like situations where she can be present.

Mimi,


Because I forget that it's just about ME and I am not worried or thinking about how he is going to react. So, I will keep working on dropping this thinking. I am working on getting rid of the stickin thinkin.


So truly the paperwork for the LSA needs to be ready to go before I tell him I am getting an LSA? I don't want him to cut off the money before that, right? Can you give me suggestions on how to approach these negotiations, and when do I know the time is right to do it? Or just go with my heart?

When he gives me those reasons do I just listen and say nothing but thank you for that information or do I hope that I have some RB skills in me to use when it happens?

Specifically how that will be accomplished would include N/C letter to other woman, having him move home, and going back to AA?


How did you specifically introduce these topics?


Ok, I need to really read what you are saying and pray for clarity on this. I'll be back for more help, I am sure. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


Actually I am having fun doing this for the most part when I keep the addiction idea in my brain and I understand that there is NOTHING at this point that I can DO to push him farther away or have him get sick of seeing me. I can keep this up as long as I need to for it to be effective.

The one concern is what the lawyer said, as time goes on and I continue to get shortchanged with the money, then my changes of getting everything are more limited. The judge will look at it as though we have worked things out instead of making him pay for what is rightfully due me. Does that make sense?


Before Friday I would have said absolutely NO WAY or as much as possible. But when we had that discussion about our AA birthdays he got very nervous or weird and said that the date wasn't important to me. He agreed to the years, but absolutely doesn't care for the specific day. I really don't believe he is using, but there is NO WAY for me to truly know. My gut says he is so self-righteous that he wouldn't, but there is NO WAY I can say anything about him for sure. Not anymore.


I actually asked him that this summer when he was really waffling about coming home. He immediately said no, should I ask him again? Did you go into details with your H why you thought it was an addiction?



How nice for you. I am so happy for you and the others who have been blessed enough for their marriages to be restored.


Yes I do. Let me print this off and think and pray about it. You know I'll be back with questions or reassurance. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I realized through reading this, that never in any of the conversations I had with WH was there any substance. He just wants to have fun and all I have been trying to do is meet those needs. He clearly doesn't want to live in reality, but HIS reality. Oh but wait, here's where that tid bit of info he gave me on how to deal with the boys.

Even though he will probably shut down and not respond, I will just say my piece and walk away. I need to have my piece arranged in my head. I wonder, should I have it written down and use it for notes? Or just go with what my heart says knowing that I will be very nervous and not say anything.

So, given that I am ok with keeping with Plan A, should I keep up with just the light stuff until after the holidays and our anniversary on Jan 1, or should I try and get some of this accomplished sooner?

So, so much to remember and do.

Hmmm, the quote boxes didn't work this time.... Do you see why not?

PM, JT, James and Mark,
What prayers can I ask for with G-d to accomplish clarity on how to proceed with my WH.

Thanks,
B

Hi SG, just dropping by to say "Hi". Found out yesterday that I have pneumonia (yuck!) so I've been laying low trying to get a little better before Christmas.

BTW, use lower case "q" in your "quote" commands.

Hi PM,

Tis the season for illnesses, unfortunately. Take care of yourself. Merry Christmas. You and I have a date next week. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Queenie:

You don't actually have to type the words to make a quote. In the reply section, under th INSTANT UBB CODE section, click on the word Quote and the words will appear in the brackets. Paste what you want to quote within the bracketed words.

I really recommend that you get yourself a copy of Surviving an Affair and study it so that you can know the difference between PLAN A and PLAN B. I read (past tense- <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />) that book daily along with my Bible.

So you ask...



Not really. All that I told you in my last post happens over a series of conversations. These are points that you want to make to him: That you want to reconcile with him, how that would look and if he doesn't move in that direction, then you will proceed with obtaining a LSA.



Then should BEGIN..NOW. This is part of PLAN A. This is why I'm encouraging you to read SURVIVING an AFFAIR. Dr. Harley spells this out in his book.



LOL..I never learned the RB skills..Orchid tried to teach me..but that wouldn't have worked with my WH as I told her then..because part of MY PLAN A was changing from being so cynical and sarcastic...he HATED that about the OLD ME...so I tried to CLEAR AND DIRECT with him..and I DIDN'T LISTEN TO MOST OF WHAT HE HAD TO SAY..In my view, ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS FOR THE WS..a lot of what my WH had to say was BULLCRAP, I learned. So my point is to SAY WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY...if you have him captive, on a walk..at the park..he will have to listen...



There you go..you will need to spell out how YOU want it to look and ASK him HIS OPINION...



No special techniques..other than honestly speaking your truth as LA would say: "I want you to end your affair and to come to be with me"...From the very hour after D-DAY, I told my H that I wanted him to end his affair..my H LIED of course and said he was "ending it" but ..well, he eventually did but it took THE PLANS....



Not to me. It may be the lawyer wanting to get paid. Aren't there laws in your state spelling out what he is required to pay, regardless of how long it takes for you to file the papers?



My H heard this from Steve Harley early on..but I didn't ASK HIM..I just told him that it was AN ADDICTION...it took awhile for HIM to buy what I was saying..or it took awhile for him to ADMIT AND ACKNOWLEDGE what I was saying..there was definitely a point when he wanted to break away from her...knew it was best for him to do..but HE COULDN'T...



Remember this is NOT just ONE CONVERSATION. The INTENT of PLAN A is to negotiate THE END OF THE AFFAIR.



Don't give yourself a timeline. Make sure that it's clear to him what the point is of your interactions with him..not just to be his friend or to be nice to him..MAKE IT CLEAR THAT ALL OF THIS IS AIMED AT HIM COMING HOME TO YOU WHERE HE BELONGS...

What you are doing is NOT LIGHT STUFF, Queenie..IT IS MAJOR...

SG,

You just shifted the bracket behind the first "quote" from a ] to a }. If you edit it I bet it will be OK. It happens, I do it all the time but usually catch it in preview.

Why not just ask that specifically. God doesn't acknowledge a simple cry for help and less that he does an eloquent formal prayer. That's what makes Him so wonderful. He is not only the creator of the entire universe, who is full of great mysteries that can be contemplated by theologians, but is also a personal God. David says, "He is my rock." Not just "a" rock, or even "the" rock, but "my" rock.

Psalm 91 says: "He who dwells in the shelter of the Most High will rest in the shadow of the Almighty." The Hebrew word here for Almighty is Shaddai. El Shaddai...the Lord Almighty.

Habakkuk says, "The Sovereign Lord is my strength; He makes my feet like the feet of a deer, he enables me to go on the heights."

Mark

I did. This is something pretty serious, because I went back to bed, spoke with G-d, with all my heart and asked as simply as I could. I chose G-d and my M over football. If anyone KNEW me, this is HUGE. HUGE. But for me no longer even a choice. If that makes sense.

Like with my sobriety and recovery, I am WILLING TO GO TO ANY LENGTHS.

But G-d is being very quiet, unusually quiet. In all the times I have prayed I have gotten something voices in my head immediately. This morning NOTHING.

I need to go back and somehow pray deeper and get closer to G-d.

My stinkin thinkin is getting in the way here. I have to shut it out. Because the WH wants no part of my M or me and that's really who I am dealing with. I need to find the FAITH and STRENGTH that G-d gives me to accomplish this.

Please pray for me to receive G-ds message and desrire for me.

Could HE have led ME to you TODAY to share my viewpoint based on MY EXPERIENCE with you...

Mimi..sitting here praying for you...

Remembering when I was in your exact same position...

BUT now is the time to ACT...

PRAY THE HARDEST WHEN YOU HAVE DONE ALL THE YOU CAN DO..

PRAY THE HARDEST WHEN YOU HAVE TURNED YOUR WH OVER TO GOD...

(((((QUEEN BRACHA)))))

Get up out of your bed and look at your football.

Do not give in to your sadness.

That's a TACTIC of the ENEMY..to STEAL your JOY...

OMG, Praying the hardest was what I was doing. And the MOST AMAZING thing happened.

When all else fails and there is nothing, I have turned to TORAH. I prayed for G-d to lead me to what my lesson is and where he wants to lead me. I turned to Joshua 23. And really read it. I am still procesing all that is written, however, it led me to Exodus and Moses.

Remember, my children are named after Miriam, Aaron and Moses.

The ENEMY didn't win or steal my joy. G-d won, he steered me to the story of Exodus and I'm truly in awe and shaking. Oh g-d this next stuff you want me to do with WH is exactly what Moses needed to do with the people. Hansel is Pharoah right now and his heart is hardened and I have to just have faith that no matter what I am about to do, it will hardened his heart even more.

I just have to be honest and speak from my heart about how G-d is my life now and what I have learned and continue to learn each and every moment inclduing the MB principles. And leave it in his lap. NO EXPECTATIONS, IT WILL HARDEN HIS HEART FURTHER. And then the plagues will be LSA and Plan B. And then I have to wait for the hardened heart to let my H go. and KEEP PRAYING that Hansel will turn back to G-d and hear his word. WOW!!!!!

I am heading out the door to go exercise and take care of this body that G-d has given me, fake and bake, get dinner and come back and be a mommy to my Aaron and Moses. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Oh my g-d, I can't stop crying. Do you know what a miracle this is? It was you that started this by giving me all the instructions and me being scared and asking G-d for help. And it was Mark, just writing anything that made me go to Torah and then it was G-d who gave me, when I thought he was silent. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />


I am ACTING AND PRAYING.... and GAINING FAITH. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


Who can give into sadness and let the enemy steal my joy, when it's so CLEAR, that G-d is on MY SIDE. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I just need to keep praying for direction, strength and opportunity now - TO ACT. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Oh Mimi, Thank you so much. Thank you so much Mark... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I'll be back in awhile......

And my Skins are on tonight... If you can, watch with me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Ok,

This is what Plan A I did today. I called and left a message on H's vm. Hi, I am calling to talk to my hubby, and tell him that I am thinking about him and miss my husband very much and I wish my H a good day.

He called back a few minutes later, but I didnt take it. I knew he would be distracted because he was working on my friends car and I didn't want to interrupt that. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I just wanted my H to know I was THINKING about HIM.

I went shopping and came home and made my boys a snack - tacos. We are having crab tonight after MS gets home from rainy cold lacrosse practice.

Orchid,

Here's a couple RB that I need help with.

WH: We don't live a healthy lifestyle.
ME: Yes, living with a crack addict with hep c is certainly a healthier lifestyle.

If I ask him if he is addicted to OW and he responds no, how can I answer?

ME:How's your relationship with G-d.
WH: I have a great relationship with G-d.

How can I answer that.

I am trying to really prepare myself for what WH will say when I start to lay the framework for reconciliation.

Thanks,

I consider this to be disrespectful. I don't recommend that you talk this way to your WH, Queenie.

Plan A includes NO LOVEBUSTING..no DJs...

Secondly, don't criticize the OW..

It brings him to her defense.

THIS IS ALL ABOUT YOU BEING THE BEST YOU POSSIBLE....

LOL, ok.

I am trying to prepare myself with the RB that he spews when I talk about more serious things.

How would you suggest I prepare?

What is the point of asking HIM questions...

This is about communicating YOUR MESSAGE to HIM..

EXPECT ALL OF HIS ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS TO BE FOGGY...

For a WS, remember, ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS...

He obviously is having difficulty with his relationship with GOD..you don't have to ask him...

OH wait,

You are right, we didn't live a healthy lifestyle. But I have created a healthy lifestyle at home for us.

Is that better?