Hey SG,

I'm here and in pain with you. I, like you, am not sure that my WH will ever be back.

I think that your chances are better than mine though because you have the children, and your OW is definitely more of a loser than mine. I just don't see how your WH's A can survive that kind of environment too long. Your WH's affair has to survive two sets of kids, the financial strain, her addiction and disease. Think about it - that's a whole lot of baggage to overcome.

Hey Chai,

Let's hang together tonight then and help each other through this. I am making dinner back and forth, but would you like to?

OW's children are grown, they aren't a pull at all, except just as sick as their momma.

Thanks for the encouragement. It is a whole lot of baggage to overcome, however WH is one stubborn man. And it's the stubborness and the addiction that scares me so.

BRB

Hey Skins,

Yep, I'll be here tonight. We'll chat.

Even though OW's kids are grown, it sounds like they are all very high maintenance. Any 19 year old that has 3 kids has to be a problem child.

Look at it this way. When you and your H married, you came into the R with no baggage. You had the kids and managed to raise them over 24 years. You made it though a lot of rough times with sickness, school work, house work and all of the stuff that goes with being M. You did this over 24 years. It was only you, your H and the kids to worry about. There were no X spouses, step kids, etc. to worry with. Wasn't M hard enough without all of that stuff?

Now the situation is different. Your WH is in a relationship where there are "step" children (I know, they aren't M, but I don't know what else to call them) with issues, grand kids running around, I assume that she has an X or two somewhere, her addiction issues, her illness, not to mention the financial drain of supporting two families, and who knows what else. I just see no way that a R with all of those issues can survive long term.

Sounds like you have done a wonderful Plan A, and when you go to Plan B, he will realize what you have provided.

Patience is not one of my strong points, but I'm going to advise you to have it. Your chances are very good. I guess the wild card is that your H has prior addiction issues. It is definitely not good for him to be in that environment. But, if he does follow her down that path, it's only going to hasten the demise of that R.

I'll be right back Chai,

Don't go away. Crabs are calling me.

I'll be back too. I'm sewing a round table cover in between posts, so I'll be in and out.

Do you quilt?

What kind are you sewing?

Hi Skins,
I don't do traditional quilting, but I love to crazy quilt. I have a Viking Designer that I love, but don't use very often for embroidery. I guess that makes sense, right? lol Spend all of that money to use it for only straight sewing. Duh.

Anyway, I've been decorating the condo. I have a cathedral ceiling in the LR area with a palladian window over the patio door, then 2 windows on each side of that. I painted that wall a salmon pink (yes, very girlie), so I bought pink and yellow stripe fabric to recover my two loveseats, and a plain pinkish fabric to do a round table cover. I'm having the loveseats recovered, but I'm doing the table cover myself. I can make the slipcovers, but it's a time constraint thing. This was probably TMI, but it is therapy for me to talk about my little condo.

How were the crabs? I just made a batch of chai.

I love hearing about your condo. Did you buy it alone?
Keep the info coming.

The crabs actually were pretty good. I am a lover of blue crabs from MD, actually grew up on them, but Dungeness are better than nothing. My boys enjoyed them.

Have a toast of chai on us and everyone else on here tonight who are recovering, happy and most of all hurting.

Do you think next year at this time we will be able to offer support to the newbies on here who are hurting?

The other piece that keeps getting missed in this is WH has NO relationship with his children. NONE. He sometimes talks to my DD, but she is the ONLY other person sees the complete difference in him. As she says, he's not DAD anymore.

As for the boys, it's my MS's Senior year and he hasn't asked me once about what is going on with graduation. NOTHING. And the YS, he hasn't emailed him since 12-6-07 because he didn't get a response from YS. And yet it is YS's fault.

Do you think that this is also to the better in my sitch or just makes it worse?

I like girlie stuff, in fact the woman who I am very close to at work, who used to have my job and now has my old job and I have her job, told me when I first started almost 9 years ago, We will NEVER be friends. You like cutsy, cutsie and I detest cutsie.

She has been retired for 3 years, but I asked her to come back for a year and work beside me and this year for Christmas she got me a sign that said something like Good Friends are the Gift of Life.

This is a MIRACLE... so maybe there is hope for H and me.

Oh,

When I first worked with this woman, she was so mean to me that I had to figure out a way to survive. One of the smartest things I learned was to take an interest in what she liked and began quilting. She NEVER thought I would keep to it and I have and love it.

Well, yes I bought it alone. Everything happened so fast. Our house had been for sale for two years and wasn't selling. Back in Sept. I found out that WH had lied again and was back in OPs state, so I went into Plan B. At that point we had at least 3 false recoveries and I had had enough. I filed for LS because I knew that he was running up debt and giving her money. At that point, I figured I better go back to work (I own a retail store that couldn't support me) because I wasn't sure what was going to happen. Anyway the house listing contract was due to expire when a last minute offer came in. WH didn't want to sell, but I had been there alone in a very secluded spot for 3 years, so I told him that I would force the sale. He finally agreed but became very hostile after that, blaming me for everything. The buyers wanted us out almost immediately, so when WH told me that he didn't want to be M anymore and never wanted to speak to me again, I bought the condo. I knew that I needed a nice place to come home to at night, and it made sense to buy instead of rent.

My WH left town and really doesn't communicate with our DD either. I feel bad for her and your children. Why a lot of men run away from their kids is a mystery to me.

Well, I hope that we can both offer assistance to newbies next year -- one way or the other. I'll be like Believer offering assistance for personal recovery, and I hope that you will be able to offer assistance on marital recovery. I honestly believe that your WH's A has no chance of long term survival. Waaay toooo much baggage.

There is hope for you. I believe that you need to boost your self esteem. I think that as BS's, our self esteem is damaged. But, we are both good women and need to give ourselves credit. Our WH's are missing out on having the most wonderful of M.

Quilt on.....

How do you build your self-esteem.

In all fairness to H, this was never his problem, but clearly mine and I need personal recovery as much as marital recovery. In fact, one won't happen without the other. So, how can someone boost their self-esteem. To most people that seems obvious, to me, its a mountain of the highest proportion. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

My sponsor told me today that I have a huge loving heart, capable of loving a million people. And it's true, and I have SO many people in my life who love me. How can I get stuck on ONE MAN who rejected me. Care to take a shot. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I like what you honestly believe. Care to guess what long term is. They started the affair in April or May of 06 and D-day was May 07? They have been living together ever since, albeit some unbelievable craziness that just amazes me.

In fact, WH always said "our" life was chaotic, however since the day he left, our life has no more chaos in it. Where he is always doing this or that, crisis here or there. And he blames me for it. Among other things.

Ah, addicted mind. I wish I could watch it work on a computer screen. It would help immensely.

What an awesome thing for you to be able to own your own place and decorate it. In a way its healing, isn't it.

What other kinds of plans do you have for it?

Where do you live?

Well skins, building back my self esteem has not been easy. I think the thing that got me on the way was my new job. I owned (still own actually) a retail store, which was supposed to be a retirement thing for us, however sales have been down. Then when this happened, I checked out for a few months. I just couldn't function well, and I let the store go downhill. After WH kept lying, sneaking around, not coming home etc., I realized that I had better get a job back in the corporate world. I called a few people that I worked with, floated my resume, and had an offer within two weeks. And after being out of corporate for almost 4 years, I got an offer making about 30% more than WH. That right there boosted my self esteem by truck loads. Just to know that I was still respected enough to get an offer almost immediately. Also, a circle of friends helped so much. Girlfriends are priceless. Mine were there for me the whole time.

I think that you just have to believe in yourself. You have a job, you have all of those people who love you, you have your wonderful children, you have a talent (quilting), and you sound very loving. I'm not sure why you say that this is about you. It was your WH's choice to do what he did, just as it was my WH's choice. Rejection by anyone is never easy, and I think that the rejection from the person who we believed in the most is the hardest to handle.

I don't know. If I had all of the answers I wouldn't be here posting. All I know is that you can't control the WS or make them do anything. I found that out the hard way. I tried too long and it nearly drove me insane. Honestly, being in Plan B has helped me more than anything. I no longer have to wonder if he is with her - I know he is. I no longer have to snoop - I know what I'll find. I just got to a point that I couldn't fight it anymore.

And don't get too wound up in his blaming you. I found that it is part of the script. When we sold the house, that gave my WH the thing that he needed to turn this all around and blame me. It was my fault that we lost so much money, my fault for this, for that etc. They have to do that so that they can justify what they're doing. Sometimes you don't see it until you step back.

Oh, other plans for my place - painting a couple of rooms, a daybed for the lower level (my guest area), and a bookcase to hold all of my books.

I live in Ohio. Eastern Standard time, which is why I'm headed for bed now.....

See you tomorrow...

You've learned a lot, CL. That was an eloquent post.

Great advice.

Chai,

Wow. You have only been here since October 17. I am impressed by your understanding. What a great post. Thank you.

You know, it's not that I just have a job, I am the head secretary of an elementary school. I run the place and know EVERYONE. And I touch their lives because I care about them. I am PTA President, I sit on a board position at the district level for Women of Reform Judaism, I sit on the lacrosse board and because of my situation and all the years I have put in volunteering they are scholarshiping my two kids to play this year because they care about us. I am OVERWHELMED by the love and support of EVERYONE, in my life. Truly I am blessed.

If you would have asked me a year ago about a divorce, EVERYONE would have thought I was the stronger one and would walk away because I was so unhappy in my M. And yet, when it comes right down to it, I love my H more than words to express it are possible. I just didn't express it to him enough. I believe one day, I will get that chance.

This has been a miracle day for me in personal growth. Truly the depth of sadness inside of me is beyond description not to mention the desire for living was going. Earlier today my sponsor was so frustrated with me because I said my relationship with my H is more important than my children. I was so embarrased by what she was saying, but it was the truth. I don't want to LIVE my life WITHOUT him. This goes back to the M my parents had where it was my parents against me and my sister and oh did we suffer from it. So, I made my kids as important as my H. But it has cost me dearly.

Regardless, My boys were very restless tonight so we went to see the Golden Compass. The movie people ask you to turn off cell phones and don't text. I told my YS to not do it during the movie and during it of course he did. I told him to stop, he didn't. He got up and moved to the farthest seat in the row. G-d gave me strength to get up, walk over to him and insist that he give me the cell phone. He wasn't going to, but I stood my ground and he did. I walked back to my seat and watched the rest of the movie. That was a huge step for me.

A little later on it really hit me AGAIN, I am truly in a spiritual battle for my H's soul and spirit right now. I don't want it, and honestly, I don't know if I am strong enough for this. I really don't. But here I am and G-d believes in me, and I am NOT going to let G-d down. But, the pain, oh my g-d is killing me tonight, the sadness is consuming me. And I know you ALL understand it. It's what brings us closer to each other on here and helps us to walk through it because we share it with each other and care.

All the while, CHEST OUT, HEAD UP, and I am fighting for my M and keeping FAITH I will survive this - somehow G-ds way.

When that recommitment happened in my mind, the most amazing blessing happened. Earlier tonight I suggested to my boys as a way of getting them out of here to go and look at Christmas lights. As you can imagine, Jewish boys don't think that's so cool, especially angry ones.

But on the way home, my MS was driving and do you know what he did? He took us around developments to look at the Christmas lights. I can't stop crying from the joy of those boys who were created from the love of my H and me. And they are AMAZING children. Our love gave life to the children, and we nurtured them together, and if WH is so STUPID as to walk out on THEM, I promise G-d, myself, those children and everyone in my life, I will NOT GIVE UP.

I will FIGHT THROUGH FAITH AND BELIEF, that G-d will turn this into good and my children and I will come out of this whole people. I don't know how, but we will. And I will keep the FAITH ALIVE, that my H will come home one day and we will create a new M. One that is created from G-d's foundation and worked with MB principles.

So, please let's all keep praying for G-d to reach my H and bring him home in G-ds time. And let me pray for the stamina, strength, and every other quality that I am going to need to get through this for G-d.

And with that I say AMEN. Merry Christmas to all of you. It seems so stupid to say this, but I love you all deeply and carry your pain in my hearts as my own so that your burden is made just a little lighter.

Bracha

I have family who live in Ohio. How's the weather, are you totally snowed in?

Yes, I will see you tomorrow.

Bracha

Queenie

I hope you get this soon after you awaken. God is here with us today and everyday. You are a ROYAL, WONDEROUS daughter of God.

I love you.

Smartie

I love you too Smartie,

How did last night go?

How are you today? Are you saving me some food?


<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Luna wrote a really long post on her thread for me. Thanks Luna.

Something clicked in my mind that I am working through. Lots of times I struggle with the alienation idea of my H although there CAN BE NO OTHER explanation for what he has become.

In thinking about that, I remembered when my mother was dying. I became her hospice caregiver. She suffered through a VERY LONG and PAINFUL death. At the time I had a very close friend who was suffering through the late stages of alzheimers. Both of these people had become someone not recognizable. And honestly, if my mom and this friend had truly understand what they had become it would have killed them. But THEY DIDN'T. They had no CLUE. The looked somewhat the same, but it wasn't them anymore.

THIS IS THE WAYWARD. Their shell of a body may be the same, but they are NO LONGER OUR SPOUSES. They are someone we can't recognize and it HURTS terribly to watch it happen. BUT IT IS, and for me, the STRENGTH comes from G-d and BELIEVING, that my H inside still lives and will fight it's way through.

Unfortunately when someone is in the advanced stages of Alzheimers, you need to let them go and be put somewhere that they can be taken care of, because you can't handle this person anymore.

There is NO WAY I can take care of or even handle this monster of mine, he is TOO FAR GONE. And I fight to let go and let G-d have him, because even though there may be not cure for Alzheimers, there is a cure or treatment for WS. And that treatment is available to him but in G-ds time and G-ds hands.

Being an addict you would think I would get this concept of the addiction down. Something that is essential to my personal recovery, and once it becomes in sync w/ my heart and my mind, I am on my way. Right Mimi?

I am sure many of you are laughing at how I come to think of things, it just helps to reword it and come to peace with what I am learning so I can move forward on my path to personal recovery.

On a good note and here's where I could take some suggestions. I am designing a quilt for this journey. I am looking for some suggestions on what kinds of blocks I could make. Some of the ideas I have come up with are - a lighthouse, Psalm 23 (for sure), Moses, my children, my Judiasm. Oh, I can make a friendship block in honor of all the friends I am making on here. Suggestions?

I hope everyone is having a nice Christmas morning.