This surprise me a little. I knew you were broken before and right after your W took you back. Now, you have your family intact and everything is going pretty much as well as it can be. Remorse and regretful...yes. But, why are you still feeling broken and all those emptiness?

I GUARANTEE it's NOT because he misses his adulteress other woman. I'm sure he's realized by now she was just an illusion and a prostitute.

Ooops...no need to offend prostitutes...at least they get paid.

Maybe a bit more like a vacuum that occasionally speaks...only cheaper.

BTW, I have a distinct feeling ba,stillsame, et. al. may just actually go away when TST/Sexymammabear disappear. I'm not suggesting or telling you to go...but you could take your support more private. Email me at the address below if you are unsure with how or what I mean.

Mr. Wondering

Thank you Mr.W. tst has been emailing with MEDC for awhile now.

This place has literally been a life line for me, and I hate the thought of not being able to post here. But, yes, I have considered, and still consider it.

tst and I are hoping the attempted highjack to Skinsgal's thread doesn't happen.

So, I started a new thread addressing StillSame/BA to go away. Now...back to Skinsgal.

I haven't read your latest posts, SG, but please know you continue to be in my thoughts and prayers. You are an amazing woman, and your WS is a true ALIEN!

Hope comes not from faith, but from the source of all hope, in whom we place our faith.

Faith in mankind, faith in ourselves, faith in each other, faith in some process, or even faith in promises come up empty...It is He who made the promise that is the reason for hope. When we place our faith in Him, we can have real hope because He makes no mistakes, rights all wrongs and forgives all errors.

When all is going well it is easy to look at our lot and say "God is in control." But when life is falling apart, we feel like no one, not even God, cares about our situation and we don't even want to face tomorrow..therein lies the true test and the real definition of faith. Believing in Him and His promises because He is trustworthy and righteous and not because He is being a sugar daddy and giving us what we want, that is what real faith is all about.

When we lose hope, it is because we are focusing on the wrong thing. We are looking at where we are and our circumstances instead of who He is.

When we want what He wants, we want what is right. So then we have hope because we can know that He will bring to pass what He wants and that will be right.

But does He promise to save our marriage? Not really...But does he say He wants to save our marriage? God has said, "I hate divorce." Sounds pretty clear to me. But to each of us, BS and WS as well, He gives free will to choose to follow Him or not. And it isn't a choice of two equal options since one way leads to life and one to death. It isn't opinion as to which is better, but simply a matter of one being right and one choice being wrong. His way is always right...our own is always wrong.

"Do not put your trust in princes, in mortal men, who cannot save. When their spirit departs they return to the ground: on that very day their plans come to nothing. Blessed is he whose help comes from the God of Jacob, whose hope is in the Lord his God, the Maker of heaven and earth" (Psalm 146:3-6)

"Those that trust in the Lord are like Mount Zion, which cannot be shaken but endures forever. As the mountains surround Jerusalem, so the Lord surrounds His people both now and forevermore." (Psalm 125:1-2)

So faith is not about believing that what we want to happen will come to pass, but it is choosing to believe that what God wants for us is true and right and that He is in charge. Since He knows the end from the beginning, He knows what is best for each of us and when we trust Him to bring that to pass, we can have hope, not that we can have our own way, but that He will have His own way which is the best since He wants and promises only what is best to those who trust in Him.

Mark

SMB - I understand what you are describing as your "feeling" about this. So let me simply say that you can continue to post regardless of what anyone else says or thinks. There are only two valid reasons for anyone to be on MB anyway. 1)They are seeking information and help that might be relevant to themselves and their marriage, and 2)They are trying to HELP someone else with their struggles and their seeking some help.
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So I do understand your frustration. You can, as others have suggested, put the person on "ignore" or you can simply choose to ignore anything they might say and choose to not let them have the power to "disturb" you.

God bless.

Wow You are right.

Basicaly, everytime I worry about what is going to happen or fret over that my H may not come home etc. I am getting in G-d way of doing his work and need to just out of it? And by me being solely focused that truly the one end result of happiness for me is my H coming home is actually denying G-d or playing G-d as to what is best for me?

What are you suggesting? Where do Plan A and Plan B fall into this?

And thank you for the scripture.

skinsgal - I hope you don't my trying to "take a stab" at your questions.


"Basicaly, everytime I worry about what is going to happen or fret over that my H may not come home etc. I am getting in G-d way of doing his work and need to just out of it?"

Not exactly "getting in God's way. It is impeding God's progress for you in the sense that God has instructed us to NOT "worry" (as in the picture of a dog "worrying" a bone) about the future. God HAS given us today, and today only to "worry" about so that we can choose our reactions and actions for the troubles that are "sufficient unto the day."


"And by me being solely focused that truly the one end result of happiness for me is my H coming home is actually denying G-d or playing G-d as to what is best for me?"

Not at all. TODAY is what God has given any of us to "deal with." Now IF his "coming home" IS the only source of happiness, then I'd say you are right. That's because our "source" of happiness should be God alone and not in anyone else as if some other person, not matter how much we love them, is our "god." It is, I guess the best way to describe it, a matter of priorities and falls under the "heading" of "Thou shall have no other gods before me."





Plan A is focused on YOUR walk. In the context of God, it is your own walk with Him in humble obedience to His commands, regardless of how our emotions might be making us feel.

Plan B is intended to make the WS think about everything and how it relates to the choices that they are making.

In that respect it is similar to God removing His protection from the nation of Israel when they were being "stiff-necked" and following after things that were not "Godly."

God bless.

Happy New Year FH,

Please jump right in. ")

I don't think that my H is my only source of happiness.

And if there is ONE THING I have gotten through this it is my continue to strengthen relationship with G-d. Quite honestly, I am seeking to live my life for G-d and in his will for me and no one else.

I completely messed my life up on my own will, and I am not willing to go back there to that awful dark place. Not even if it meant for my H to come home.

Can you please elaborate on what you mean by how our emotions might be making us feel. I kinda get it, but not truly.

And thank you

SG,

I think there are a couple of scriptural ideas at work in Plan A and Plan B.

From New Testament concepts we can see that before we can even begin to make a judgment of someone else's actions, we must first examine our own actions and intentions as well. Thus, in Plan A we are removing ourselves as an obstacle to God doing His work in the WS by removing any excuse for them to reject what He is telling them to do.

When I look at myself and compare me to someone else, I might stack up pretty good. In the case of a BS comparing themselves to a WS, the BS looks all righteous and pure. But when my comparison is to the One and Perfect God of the universe...my paltry attempts at goodness turn to so much garbage.

So in Plan A we are given the opportunity to become what God intended us to be all along.

As for Plan B...In the NT Paul tells us to abandon an unrepentant sinner to his/her own ways that God might bring them to the end of themselves. If you look at the promises made by God to the people of Israel when they entered the land after wandering in the wilderness for 40 years, you can see that He promises to defend and protect them, bless their every act and make them the envy of all the nations. But the price to be paid was to obey Him and His commands.

When the people stopped following Him, God removed His blessing from them and His protection fell away. The northern kingdom was overrun and the people dispersed. The southern kingdom remained for a short time but they too refused God's chastisement and eventually God raised up the Babylonians to overthrow Judah and haul the people off to captivity. But even in captivity, God was working behind the scenes for the return to Jerusalem.

Time and again, God has removed His hand of guidance and arms of protection and allowed the people to come to a point of having nothing of themselves to rely on so that He could lift them up when they called out to Him

In Plan B, we stop meeting the ENs of the WS and abandon them to their own ways. At the same time, we begin to build our own life so that we can move forward when a time has passed.

We cry out to God for comfort in all of this, and we want the word to mean "make the pain stop..." But the word comfort actually comes from two words that mean "with" or "from a position of" and "strength" or "power". (You piano players think about what the word "forte" means on a piece of music.) This is also the source of our word fortress. So when we seek His comfort, what He is willing to give us is His strength to get us through. The consequences of living in a fallen world do not go away, but with His power, we can overcome the world.

Think about Joseph. His brothers were jealous of him because he was his father's favorite. They sold him into slavery and faked his death so their father would forget him. Though a slave, God caused all he did to prosper and soon he ran his master's entire household. But he was imprisoned for attempted rape, though falsely accused and while in prison met a man who one day mentioned him to the king. And when asked to interpret a dream by the king, not only knew it's interpretation but the dream itself and ended up second in all the land to only the king himself.

And when he was in charge of all that Egypt had, his brothers came to him for help, though they did not know he was their brother. And because of his place of power and authority, he was able to save his entire family and Israel was saved.

Now if Joseph hadn't always rubbed it in his brother's faces that he was Dad's favorite, and if he had kept to himself his dreams of grandeur, perhaps he'd have avoided being sold as a slave, but then he would not have been a slave in Egypt where he was falsely accused of rape and thrown into prison where he met a man who mentioned him to the king who put him in charge of all the land so that he could save Israel and his sons...

What was intended for evil, God intended for good. Joseph suffered, Jacob suffered and all of Joseph's brothers suffered because of the choices they each made, but God used it all to prepare for the salvation of his yet unborn nation. Though none could see it, God had a plan.

Now think about this...If Joseph had not been sold as a slave by his brothers, there would be no Israel in Egypt to become slaves to later kings and Moses would not have led them out of slavery and the Law would not have been given and ...

It was ALL part of God's plan from the very beginning...

It would have been enough...dayenu!

Mark

I can try, skinsgal. If I'm not clear enough or if it prompts other questions, please post them and I'll try to address or clarify further.

All of our emotions are given to us by God. That is how He created us. It is the basis of the most fundamental of all the emotions, LOVE. All of the emotions, created initially in us were "good."

But God also created the angels with the same capacity for emotions and gave both the angels and we humans another gift that we could "control." That gift was "Free Will." The reason God did this was simple, He wanted to create a race of beings, both angels and humans, who COULD choose to love Him, and not simply "obey" as a robot would with NO choice. Robots can't love because they can't choose. We can. That is also why we can choose to endure the pain of adultery and CHOOSE to "love anyway" and attempt to recover our marriages.

Along with Free Will comes the capacity to choose, and HOW we choose is influenced by our LOVE for God and by all the emotional reactions we feel.

What God "asks" from us is "obedience," not disobedience. And it is the APPLICATION of our choices that show our love for God or our love for "self."

That began with Lucifer choosing rebellion and disobedience, founded in Pride of Self. It extended to Mankind with Eve and with Adam when they chose to believe Satan's lies rather than God's command, simply because it "felt right" to them to "be like God."

Love for God is good. Love for money is bad. etc. etc.

The "two sides" to every emotion. Worship and praise and exhaltation God. Worship and praise and exhaltation of Man.

Good and evil. God has continually emplored Mankind to CHOOSE, except for the Flood when God essentially said, "you've made your choices, now I will make mine." WHO has the right and the power to determine that the choices are "right?" Only the one who IS the true Sovereign Lord.

While talking about New Testament Scripture might not be "comfortable," let me just state one other example that relates to this issue of "emotions" controlling behavior and "right and wrong" responses to those emotions.

We are admonished in the NT to "Be angry, but in your anger do not also sin." That is a reference to it being right to feeling "Righteous Anger" about SIN. It is also a warning to not give anger such 'free rein' as to give us an excuse to commit sinful actions in response to that "good anger" over sin that is first and foremost a sin against Holy God.

God IS angry about all sin. Sin HAS consequences. THAT is the message throughout the entire Word of God, both "Old" and "New" Testaments. Forgiveness of sin and restoration of a "right relationship" first with God, and then with our fellow man, IS the goal of God and He determines how it is to "be done." We can "like or dislike" His plan, but our feelings in the matter are "irrelevant" when God has spoken...because He IS God and we are all His servants.

God bless.

So, all of this is G-ds plan and I just have to seek him for comfort, strength, guidance and let his plan play out and know that whatever happens I will be ok?

In other words, my Plan A is still about me becoming who G-d always intended, which has been my goal from the start in November. And Plan B, well it's just what it will be when I get there because I really only need to do what G-d needs to do today?

Am I close yet? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

One thing I am doing is going out on a walk with a friend and taking care of this body that he gave me, that was dying before all this and is now healing itself is SO many ways.

I'll check back to see if I was on target of what you said.

Happy 2008 Mark - thank you

EXACTLY...but how can you stay focused on this? The later it gets in the night..the more you start to DOUBT and have FAITH...

Yes, you are close, but there's a "danger" you need to be aware of.

It relates to "predestination." While God KNOWS all that will happen and allows things to happen, we are NOT to adopt an attitude of "well, it's God's plan therefore I don't have to do anything because God will do what He does regardless of what I do or don't do." In New Testament terms, that is referred to as "hyper Calvinism." That is NOT what God tells us. We are to be Obedient to God's commands and that is what James warns believers about when he says "faith without works is dead."

God IS Sovereign and God will work His will regardless. But we are NOT released from DOING what God has commanded us to do, because it is for our benefit, not God's. God doesn't "need" us, we need God.

Think of it this way. It is NOT "God's plan" that anyone commits adultery. God KNOWS what will be done and God CAN use all of the circumstances in our lives to WORK OUT good results despite the tragic circumstances we do or encounter.

It was NOT God's plan that Job suffer and lose everything. That was Satan's plan. But God used Job's circumstances and his faithfulness through it all to result in GOOD coming after the trial and tribulation.

God bless.

FH:

Queenie is not a Christian and does not follow the New Testament. I wasn't sure if you knew this or not.

Queenie...how you doing? Did you get some more sleep?

The story about your DD is troubling; does it look like they might be going down the same path as you and you H?
I hope you can get through to them and that your own experience can help them.

Check in please; just want to make sure your doing alright.

Yes Mimi, I am aware. Her use of G-d tells me that she is probably Jewish, but the question she asked transcends both and is included in both. Either way, she obviously believes in God and is seeking to understand God-given emotions and how they impact our actions and reactions.

She, likewise, is probably aware that I am a Christian, but there is nothing that stops us from trying to help one another regardless of our beliefs. That's all I'm trying to do, as I hope she is aware.

Hi Skins,

Just dropped by to say hi and make sure you are doing OK. Happy New Year to you....

Queenie,

Please check in and let us know you're ok.

Chai and TMTS,

I am doing ok. I was out most of the afternoon getting fresh air instead of sitting at home feeling sorry for myself. I was out doing something I had never done before.

Mimi, FH, and Mark

I appreciate you asking FH about knowing if I was Jewish. That was thoughtful of you and so kind. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Rememeber the conversation that I had with my former rabbi. He didn't care how I got through this time as long as I did.

It's funny, I used to be very uncomfortable to talk about the NT teachings. Probably a threat. And as most of you know I even contemplated my walk in Judaism. But the truth is I am Jewish through and through.

I actually think its a good thing for me to be exposed to Christian thoughts, not because I am seeking, but because I am WILLING to go to ANY LENGTHS to become the woman that G-d wants me to be. That is really what this is ultimately about.

I don't know. Got any ideas? I spent all of last night reading your thread about FBW and wrote down a lot of what you said in my diary. Some how I have to develop a wall of protection that is inpenetrable. That is becoming more and more. Because I really do have FAITH that I can make it through this and my M be restored. I just get caught up in the little stuff that confuses me. Like Satan. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

FH,
Is this where both Plan come into being? I'm not sure I understand what you are trying to tell me.

TMTS,

I am actually doing OK, today. I fell asleep finally around 3:30ish, but woke up about an hour later. Then my daughter me and told me she was ok, but she didn't sound like it. I finally woke up around 9 and ended up talking to a friend and we met and went for a long walk. Actually it was very cool, we watched a flying airplane show and then went walking to the geysers. I had never been there.

Before I got there I got a call from our contractor. My house is done and he needed me to call my H and get him to come and sign papers. He asked me if I wanted to call him or leave it to him to call WH. I said, no I would love to call him. So, I first called and left a message that I was thinking of him and wishing him a wonderful day. Then about a 1/2 later I called him back and told him that we needed to hook up and go sign papers for the house to be put up for sale. Guess what, he hasn't called me back, but I checked and he has heard the message. I wonder what the deal is, I would think he would want to get this over as soon as possible.

Anyways, I realized that 14 years ago today, we sold our house in CA to move up here to WA. And here I am signing away to sell my house. I realized that was the best thing that really happened to us and who knows maybe this is just as it should be. We should be able to get out of debt and start over with a nice chunk of change together.

I am VERY worried about my DD. Yes she is in an extremely unhealthy relationship and while I like her BF as a person for the most part, I think their relationship is destructive and not good. I find it appalling that my DD would hit another human being. Never once in our M was any of that ever a part of us. So, she definetly has an anger issue. It's passive-agressive for sure and is causing her much trouble. She is also truly suffering from what is going on with her dad. She misses him so much and he just isn't there to offer any kind of warmth and advice. I EVEN know that. He responses to her are just now what the true H would give. So, I continue to pray to G-d for guidance on what to do or NOT to do and ask him to help her himself through this which is about the best I can do. I keep having this nagging feeling that what I experienced with her last night was a taste of what my H will be like when he finally brakes. And I have to be rock solid strong in my comittment to seek G-d in all things instead of fixing this for him. That would be the OLD ME and she NO LONGER exists.

Just to recap, I think I understand what you are saying Mark and FH. So, I am going to try and recap for my brain to wrap around it.

I am fighting for my M because I love my H, but because G-d blessed our marriage not once, but twice. As long as I seek G-d for guidance on how to accomplish this, then I am walking in his will. No matter what happens, somehow G-d will take this and turn it into good as long as I walk in his will the whole way through. The most important job I have in all this is to become a woman of G-d and serve him to the best of my ability daily.

But this isn't just by faith, it's by my actions. And those actions can be and for me with the help of Mimi and others is Plan A and then Plan B. G-d has the plan for me, but I have to suit up and show up for it to be put into practice. Have I got it?