SMB and TST,

I need to ask some questions abour your addiction tst. Were you in recovery or living a dry drunk?

If you are in recovery, are you working the steps to help yourself recover?

Is there anything you can think of that I could do in Plan A before I go into Plan B and completely dark?

I am in such a weird place. I haven't gotten to the place that I wouldn't take him back whoever he was. How did you get to that place. I'm still desparate to just have him come home and that's why it's can't happen. I would still be trying to fix him or DJ him into his journey.

SOMEHOW, I have to remember and truly truly come to terms with the arena or situation that created this A for my H still exists inside of him. And if he were to come home, life would be the same because he hasn't changed in fact become more broken in many ways because he crossed over the line and it would be just that more easier to do it again.

I have done so much work to change not for him but because that is what G-d needs me to do. But I am not completely at hat place where I DESERVE something better than what WH gave me all those years or is capable of giving me today. I still am trying to control this, darn it. I still am thinking if you only give me the chance I can do this and turn him around.

THAT IS A LIE, AND I HAVE TO GET THIS. This is NOT MY WAR. My war with G-d has been WON BY G-D. He does still have his squirmishes with me, like moments like this, BUT THE WAR HAS BEEN WON.

Really and truly, I believe that my understanding of all that I can DO, is to keep praying for my H's heart to soften like Pharaoh. How weird that my children's name are Miriam, Aaron and Moses. Not exactly those, but darn close, whether by Hebrew or American. And I truly believe that it will be the plagues that are the catalyst to softening his heart.

Like Mimi says, somehow, for my survival I have to build up a wall of protection around my heart and just keep walking in FAITH no mattter WHAT.

When I am worried or struggling with the situation, clearly I am NOT accepting it and then I am out of G-ds will. Because it's happening exactly as G-d wants it to.

Doesn't mean it isn't hard. I just need to pray and give it away some more. I like the idea of the writing down on paper, I think I will do that and put it away.

Hope, I can answer that. It seems to be so more obvious when it's someone else. It takes what it takes. Which is G-d. He WILL DO IT we just have to LET HIM HAVE our H completely and totally and live our LIFE they WAY he is DESIGNING for US.

Does that make sense?

Skinsgal - When the affair ends, they usually want to come home.

G-d is working right now as we speak to bring your husband home. We still don't know the outcome, so it makes us feel uneasy.

I thought that G-d had turned his back on me. It was really a crisis of faith for me. I didn't believe that my ex would ever want to come back. It took 4 years, but he did. And that length of time is very unusual. So chin up, have faith, and continue making a good life for yourself and your children. Hopefully hubby will join you.

Believer, you kept the faith for so long. What happened to change inside of you.

How is your visit with your mom going. I knew she was down there with you. I just didn't realize she lived up here close to me. Are you coming for a visit?

I had lots of times when I gave up. In fact I finally really did give up and divorced him.

Visit is going well. My mom loves to walk and be outside. So we have been doing a lot of walking on the different beaches. We also went to a few gardens (she loves gardening) and the local sites.

It was snowing the day she left, so she is happy to be somewhere warm.

I visited for a month in April, a month in August, and a month in November, to help her care for my dad. We really didn't do much because someone always had to be with him.
He died the end of November.

This visit has been good because they were married over 60 years and she misses him.

Oh wow, I'm sorry about your dad. How are you doing? I'm sorry your mom is having a rough time, I understand how hard that must be for her.

I know you had lots of times where you gave up, but what finally became the point where you didn't turn back.

Not once have I given up, I actually get to a point where I just KNOW that he will be HOME one day, I just have to be STILL and learn MY LESSONS.

I have trouble staying in that peaceful place of just FAITH and being STILL.

Ok, this is freaky.... Is it odd or is it G-d.

I bought a new bible that has commentaries on the side pages, I am waiting to get the women's commentary that was just put out.

I have learned to pray before opening the book and asking G-d for what the message or lesson is he wants me to learn. Last night I turned to the part of Esther and read thinking there were no point, so I moved to the psalms and I read, but not really getting the message.

I've been posting on here and went back to sleep. I had just gotten alittle more honest with myself about this and when I am truly honest can see that I still have much to learn about being a proverbs 31 woman. My domestic GODDESS talents are NOT what they should. I am not finding and implementing the consistency of cooking dinners regularly for the boys or cleaning the apt regularly. It's way better, but its' not where I would really like to be at. So I need to think of ways to incorporate that into my life everyday and have it become a part of me.

With that honesty, I crawled into bed to pray and read Torah. This book is almost 1500 pages or more and I turned to almost the same page as last night. Remember this is new so I don't know where I am going at all. It was the story of Esther.

At first I was confused, but then I asked G-d what's the message. It hit me..... Esther was about the little changes not making a difference, but it did and she saved the JEWS.

Who can better help me put into words what the story of Esther is about, I have it on the tip of my tongue. Anyways, sometimes G-d really does hit me with a brick when I am open to receiving it.

WOW....

I love the story of Esther (plus it happens to be my middle name). Everyone knows that Esther was able to turn the heart of the King in favor of her people but I don't know if everyone understands the time and preparation that went into that. She had to go through a long process before she could even be presented to and chosen by the King.

Her whole life was in preparation for "such a time as this".

She was given favor by God as well as the strategies and weapons she needed to turn the King's head and thus save her people.

You could say that by finding MB, you are being given the strategies and weapons you need that also involves preparing and getting ready "for such a time as this."

I had not been working a very solid program for several years. I wouldn't have called it a dry drunk, as I am very familiar with what that looks like. But I was not working the steps either.



I am still in recovery and have maintained, by the grace of God, 25 years of sobriety and clean time. I am also in marital recovery. I dove into the steps immediately, knowing that this is what saved my life once before. I began lists and making amends immediately. I became radically honest (rigorously honest) for the first time in my life. The process of surrendering my life and my will to the care of God, as I understood Him, took on a whole new meaning when I finally surrendered everything to Him. I became sweetly broken.



Fully work step 1, 2, and 3. Remove the word alcohol and replace it with your husband's name. You need to completely surrender him unto God in order for Plan B to be successful.



SMB says:

It was when I completely surrendered tst to God that I got to that place. I purposed in my heart to let him go and live my life as if he were no longer going to be a part of it. I told God to take him and do what he will with him. But that prayer wasn't a "Oh, take Him and do what you will so that he can come home." It was take Him, break Him and do whatever it takes to restore Him to you." This prayer no longer had anything to do with me. It was no longer about my marriage... it was about saving my husband's life.

END OF SMB'S THOUGHTS <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />




This, again, is where steps 1, 2, and 3 come into play. You are powerless over how he feels thinks or acts. Brokenness that I refer to is the brokenness when God had His way with me. I became truly SWEETLY broken so that God could begin building the man He had always called me to be. The brokenness you refer to is the wreckage of his past and present situation, which you have no control over, except in prayer.




SMB says (she keeps interrupting) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />:

You DESERVE a faithful husband who is committed to his marriage for life; a man who is bound in one flesh to you. THAT is what you deserve regardless of your past actions in your marriage.




SMB still here:

Yes, this is a lie. Now, claim the truth I just gave you above.



That is EXACTLY right. The battle is between God and your WS. Your WS is running from God, not from you. BUT you are a prayer warrior in the battle.

END OF SMB'S INTERRUPTION <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />



You SHOULD NOT accept the situation. You are stuggling because your ONE FLESH is being RIPPED apart.



I disagree. This is not exactly what God WANTS. His desire is for you and WS to be in the center of His will...as one...but He allows us the freedom to do otherwise if we choose. But He guarantees we won't like the outcome, either. Being outside of God's will causes destruction.

PM I actually believe this to be true of me right now. I am being prepared and I just need to walk through it day by day until G-d reveals what he wants me to do. True?

TST,

My WH has over 18 years sobriety, and I have over 21 years. We went to AA for many years in the beginning, but I NEVER worked the steps and he only worked them in treatment. I would say that we both hadn't been to an AA meeting in almost 14 years and NEVER worked the program. Given that I bet you can imagine how our life played out.

A few weeks back WH and I were talking about sobriety dates. I asked him what his was and he got very weird, started shuffling papers and said that it wasn't important to him. I found that fascinating actually. I told him it should be important and I was going to find out what the date was. It was Mother's Day in 89. Do you think I should give him that information or just hold on it.

I know this in my head, it's just my heart that isn't completely committed. I should probably start praying to G-d for this. THIS IS HUGE for ME.

Something that I really need to work on.... I am so bold as to think I do and I have to STOP that.

Thanks SMB for saying that I DESERVE a faithful man, regardless of the wreckage of my past. I have owned up to everything and am in the process of working on my amends. I also am working diligently to TRULY believe in myself as a worthwhile person, it's just a very long and hard process for me.

Not accept the situation, but accept that this is happening for a reason. WE were BOTH DYING SPIRITUALLY, I have been so bold as to say it's what I was doing to HIM that caused this, but the truth is, we are BOTH responsible for our own lives and to seek G-d. It wasn't my job to make him happy. It was ONLY my JOB to complete him as G-D saw fit. That's what I mean by acceptance. That my purpose in life is to please G-d, seek his word and guidance and truly understand that what's happening is happening because G-d needed MY ATTENTION as well as WH's ATTENTION. He has MINE...

But HUBBY'S is not my concern.

That was how I WAS living my life and it NEARLY killed me. You are so right, I have to live steps 1, 2 and 3 daily to keep this in front of me at ALL TIMES.

At first I was confused what you meant by working these steps in Plan A as being helpful. DUH!!! Plan A is about ME and making those changes in ME.

TST, what do you do to take care of your spirit each day. Do you read one day at a time, go to meetings, talk to a sponsor? If too personal, just tell me.

You see, I try to talk to my sponsor, but oh darn, I talk about my H as well. I guess SMB what you are saying is I have to stop thinking about him and just let G-d have him.

What was purposeful for you? How did you accomplish this? Constant prayers, writing, what?

I've read a lot of your thread, but it's been awhile.

How many meetings are you going to? And for how long have you been back to AA?

Does your sponsor have a solid program. What I mean by that is has she worked through all the steps? I am assuming your sponsor is a woman. Is that correct?

I guess I'm also curious what you are doing to protect yourself at these meetings? Are you purposefully sitting with and sharing only with other women?

In response to your question about what I do to take care of my spirit each day... I pray with my wife, for my wife, for my children and my family. I make time to meditate on specific verses each day. I continue to remember that I am in a process of recovery and that it's not an "event".

When I first read this, my immediate thought was that perhaps he is no longer maintaining sobriety or had relapse in the past that you were unaware of.

I just mentioned that to tst and he said he had the same thought when he read it.

???

As far as what to do with the information, tst suggested that you give him a gentle, sweet reminder since you are still in Plan A.



You are welcome. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />




Yes to constant prayers and yes to writing.

I am in almost continuous dialog with God throughout the day. Have been talking to Him like that for years. He is ever-present in my daily affairs.

I am a writer by design...meaning I can't NOT write. I have been writing for as long as I can remember...poetry, stories, jounaling, and prayers. I generally write to God when my sorrow is too great to bare. Some call this journaling. But I don't do it daily, just when I feel the desire or need.

What was purposeful???

I remember standing in front of my mirror, staring at all the verses and prayers I had written on it, still feeling the disbelief that the man I knew and loved for 24 years had chosen to leave me for OW.

The verses I had written proved to me that I would be alright. ("I know the plans I have for you, not to harm you, but to prosper you." and "Lean not on your own understanding, but in all your ways acknowledge Him and He will direct your paths.") I knew God would take care of me because I had not chosen this. I realized that no matter what FWH chose to do, God would make my life good again.

I also realized that because of FWH's choices, his life would never be good (unless he returned to his family). I was overwhelmed with sadness to know that the man I called husband for all these years, would spend the rest of his life in agony for his decision once he came out of the fog.


I stood looking in that mirror and prayed: "Do what you will with him Lord, there is nothing I can do. He is yours."

Then I looked at myself and told myself it was time to rise up and move on.

What did I purpose? I finally figured it out. I purposed that he was not coming home. It was his decision, but when I embraced it, I released him.

SMB and TST:

It's so WONDERFUL that you two are reaching out and posting to QUEENIE!

What a BLESSING for HER!!

She is so WORTHY as Miss M would say!!

I got anywhere from 3 to 5 meetings a week sometimes. I have been back in AA since 9 days after D-Day.

Yes, my sponsor has a strong program. She has worked through all the steps. It's kinda an odd or G-d deal. Her walk the last year has been about totally trusting G-d and walking in faith. I met her the first night I walked in those rooms and we connected immediately. She is frustrated with me now because she wants me to stop trying to get my H home. She immediately picked up that my H is a drug to me. Partly because she doesn't understand or buy into the MB principles that my H is in an active addiction.

My home group is a wome's group. I go to mixed meetings. I'm not sure what the concern is, so help me understand, ok?

Ok, sweet gentle reminder I can do. I'll do it by an ecard maybe... I have to do it before I get into Plan B however and that will be LONG before his birthday. I honestly don't know whether he has relapsed or not. He lied about so much for so long it truly is possible. My sense is that he is running from AA because he knows that he is DOING WRONG. But there again, I have NO IDEA TRULY what is going on. Only G-d does and I so need to not go there.

I truly feel I am so close... I KNOW that my H needs to be broked for G-d to work in him. And this isn't for ME, it's for HIM. He is miserable in HIS LIFE with or without me. I love him SO MUCH, I think I can honestly say I JUST WANT him to FIND PEACE in G-d and in his LIFE. And if that means he needs to be away from me, then that's what it needs to be. So, I think I will look to Torah today and really start praying for what G-d really wants me to be praying for. My H's life in his hands so he can work his blessings in him. I am like you SMB. I am saddened that my H could live his life out in misery unless he starts to find G-d and live for him. I'm sure I am not saying that good enough, but it's what's on my heart.

But since I am still in Plan A, this is what was accomplished today. I went to his lacrosse practice and there was NO OW. I find that interesting actually. Not going to figure it out, don't know what's what. He came over and said hi, asked me what I was doing here and I told him I came down to watch him play. I was taking pictures with my little new camera, he commented on it being fancy. I agreed. Said it wasn't as good our OURS.

He showed me where he got bruised yesterday, I immediately reached down and rubbed it with my hands....Gave him some comfort. He was off playing.

At one point I called out to him as sweetie and he responded, came over to see if he had his phone in his backpack. He didn't, but he did have a new wallet.

Of course I did. I took it out and walked away. He went to DMV and got his new license with different address. And he doesn't have the picture of me from about 14 years ago, but he does have the picture of me and my son that I gave him back in early December. I was shocked at that. Why would he keep that in his wallet? That was purposeful. His wallet is full of pictures of his children, one of me and none of HER.

I had to leave early to get home and give my son the car for lacrosse practice. I didn't want to interrupt H again, he was having fun, commented that these kids were young, I go yes, but you are young at heart. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I called him on cell phone and told him how much I loved watching him, that he was really improving and the he could see it himself. I also told him that I hated to leave and explained about our son having a college coach visiting practice, but that I really wanted to stay and watch him more. I told him I would talk to him later tonight or tomorrow about the car.

I have to say it... I wonder if he notices that I left? Would he even care. I am still shocked that she wasn't there with him.

Oh yeah, I was dressed so gorgeous, slim looking and wore my tennis shoes, I walked around the track a little and even ran for him to see. That was fun. Because I can run.

I am EXTREMELY FORTUNATE TO HAVE YOU ALL IN MY LIFE....

G-d is very gracious and understanding to me.

Ok, are you sitting down for this....

I figured out my H's AA birthday - it is May 14, 1989.

18 years later May 14, 2007 was my D-Day.

What is the message there?

That's very good to hear. It's impossible to work the program on your own.....Lean on her experience.


This is one area I have a beef with people in the program, many have the notion that they are qualified to act as marriage counselors. The only qualification we in AA have in common is our ability to help people recover from the throws of alcoholism and drug addiction.
Alcoholics should not come to MB'ers to learn how not to drink, anymore than someone in the throws of an affair shouldn't go to AA to recover their marriage.


The concern is that you need to have extraordinary precautions in place to protect yourself emotionally. Whether you feel it or not, you are vulnerable right now. It is important that you do not allow yourself to be in a position to develop an emotional connection with someone of the opposite sex.





Your instincts serve you well, young Jedi. (says Yoda) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />




I know for myself that I would never find peace outside of God's will, which included being home with my wife.

TST, did you see the earlier post I just made?

No one would want me. I'm still fat, though getting way better. Actually, ok, I am looking really good and I am mending very nicely. I probably would be attractive to someone out there. I do understand what you mean, and I can honestly see the need to be VERY CAREFUL.

You are so right, I am EXTREMELY VULNERABLE and know that I have a need to feel desirable. So, I will just be more careful.

He is completely in the throws of an addiction with her and a dry drunk. He is so capable of lying to himself. That's why I KNOW that only G-d can help him. It's NOT MY PLACE and truly never was. I just love him.

I really do hope that G-d's will is for us to be together. When I was with him today, we just are so matched. We have so much together. Oh well, not going there.

I CAUGHT YA with this STINKIN' THINKIN'...

STOP IT!!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

EDITED to say that this post is from SMB. TST was logged on my laptop. Oops!


I have to stop you hear, SG.

A WS cannot have peace until they do the right thing. The right thing is never going to be leaving your BS for OP.

But as the BS, you cannot make him do the right thing. But his choosing to leave the family God gave to him, will not bring him peace. Do you understand what I am saying?

He can choose to continue in his sin, which will never lead to peace. OR he can choose to repent (turn away from his sin), do the right thing, and peace will come.


It is OK to recognize this as truth and still release him to God. God may choose to body slam him over and over until he "gets it". Or God may choose to leave him in his sin for reasons we cannot understand. Or God may have 1001 other options we cannot see. That is HOW it is in God's hands. That does NOT mean the same thing as everything that is happening is God's will.

It is never God's will for someone to commit adultry. It is never God's will for someone to leave their family for OP. Those people are choosing to be outside God's will. What God does with them...well, that's up to Him.

This is why the battle is between WS and God. It is about WS choosing to sin.