One more comment on the trading the addictions. With the alcohol he's not ALLOWING himself to FEEL. He doesn't have to experience your HURT (or his hurt or guilt) because he's numbing himself, emotionally, spiritually and physically. No wonder he can't connect.

(((SL)))

Hi meggy,

That's what I've been told, and what I'm coming to find to be true.

I'm still sort of in a state of disbelief over this. I keep thinking that I'm WRONG, and that it's JUST not working, that's all; that some marriages just don't work out. I know that's scewed thinking, really I do, but it's all so engrained.

Also, since, what, two weeks ago, I've started to feel worse, not better. THAT is to be expected, too, I'm sure. It's discovery, and then all of the confusion and fear that come along with it.

It's really hard to accept that there is nothing I can do. REALLY hard. I so wanted this all to work out, believing it could. It's not going to be what I want (as BR said). He will be who he is.

In my want to FIX and MANAGE (again--BR said spoken like a true ACOA) I desire him to leave. It won't solve what's wrong with me. I'm just so angry and bewildered right now.

SL,

Why do you discount, mitigate, make excuses for others? Because you want to be that powerful, in control...and in part, you already are.

Just before PWC said he still wasn't committed to working on the marriage...you said you knew when you dwelled on his stuff you spiraled.

Then you did.

That's what I see...one part of the last two weeks.

When you read Boundaries, keep your focus on YOU. You have a lot of false payoffs for doing what you do, your habits, negative voice...find those payoffs and free yourself from them. They aren't real.

Each time you begin to dwell on PWC's words, gestures, distance, body language...stop and hand those to God. Lift him up to God...and refocus on you...breathe deeply, exhale...re-center yourself.

Do the O&H drive-bys...to hold yourself to your boundary of O&H...one or two sentences inserted in your day, which shares your lessening love bank, your fears, the DJs you catch yourself doing...like

"I have this assumption in my head each time I come through the door that I know you won't respond to me. It's kicking my butt daily. Do you know where the lid to this bowl went?"

Focus on recognizing all your own power...power of going into his mind, which is fantasy to you, because you don't know his stuff, really...like you said, watch the actions...the FC EN, the DS EN...meeting your EN for conversation...listening...presence...whatever it is you see when you look, dwell there...

And focus on what you're doing, your acts of love for your marriage (even when you aren't feeling loving towards PWC)...control and love are like synomyns in ACOA...finding where all the threads in those run, overlap, appear one way, are another...no wonder it takes us a lifetime...

Have you already learned that we hand down the behaviors, even without the drink? Which is why your struggle is everywhere...millions of us have the same things to learn, apply, understand, accept and grow from.

And why going to Alanon/ACOA meetings are an act of love for yourself, your family, your life. Count it...encourage and kudo yourself...stick with it...because then the buck stops with you...no more handing down, unaware.

One of the the things I learned about my focus being all over DH for the majority of our married life...my focus terrified my sons...understandably...because it was like a spotlight, okay if aimed at the sky...blinding, traumatic, when turned onto them...

Like any addiction, when our focus has been over others...it distracts us from ourself...we fear our own spotlight, as well...until we learn, with help, it's a flashlight for us and train it onto ourselves.

O&H drive-bys include stating your beliefs, btw..."I know you're choosing to not work on our marriage right now. I see _____ as an act of love."

"I" statements center us in reality. Be still in them...doesn't mean silent, doesn't mean distant...means loving presence with detachment from enmeshment. Emotionally aware, honest and sharing...not blaming, criticizing, judging or lost over there, where you have no control.

You can tell when your focus is lost to you...all over someone else...you begin measuring yourself, your actions, your choices by the outcome...which is the anti-boundary...so you'll feel inside out...powerless...because your are pursuing power that cannot be yours...never was...

You know this...controlling the outcome, replaying his words in your head which were said before...not being said right now...Your focus was on you for awhile before, SL...I saw it...so many of us saw it...not back at square one...nothing lost...just old thought habits coming back...choose differently.

LA

SL, I am so sorry for the pain this 'new insight' is creating for you....

((((((((((((SL))))))))))))

PERFECT..I LOVE THIS IDEA!!



Mine, too.

I just loved this post!!

It's AMAZING how we speak the same language and walk in the same shoes!!

Thank you so much LA. I appreciate you dropping your wisdom here. I did have my focus directly on myself for a while there, and FELT good about it. It was within the last month that I started looking AT PWC again, noticing the distance. It's painful. I wanted sooooo much more than this. I'm disappointed, really.

I know that I can only control myself, and that is what I mean when I say MANAGING. I can't seem to even manage myself. I allow the emotions to take over. I still function, but on what level?

To me, this is NEW stuff that I'm learning, and with that comes looking at the past, and recognizing it for it's pitfalls. I'm also recognizing how much MORE flaw I have. More than I had already witnessed and changed. I do feel back at square one in terms of personal recovery. I'm not giving up on myself, I'm just sad right now.

I am at a loss for how to live with my husband day to day. I can be O&H. I have been. The last two weeks, I have been the distancer, for it has been like getting cut.

I'm absolutely positive Alanon won't hurt, it will help me. I do feel tired. I've said that so many times over the last year.

What do you mean by this? You seem to be functioning OK, going to work, taking care of your son and your home.

I think you are learning to deal with the REALITY of this.

What led you to ACCEPT and ACKNOWLEDGE the problems with the drinking?

SL,

I don't see you allowing your emotions to take you over...I see you reacting to them in tiny ways...which is what happens when you dwell in your spouses' beliefs...you allowed your focus to go where it has no control...

And you're grieving a lot of the past...new knowledge and understanding gives rise to grief...sadness is healing and healthy...how we get to real acceptance instead of painful tolerance.

You are functioning, as Mimi says...are you living in fantasy, maybe? In the future? Have you been imagining that right now is forever? Always gonna be this way?

You might be signalling yourself with feelings of emotional exhaustion...we get that when we expend all our energy over there, where we have no control...it's like you chose to distance physically, and pursued harder mentally...not where PWC could see it...and hey, I do this...doesn't mean you are...you can feel deeply and not react to them...develops a great habit...trace those emotions to the beliefs they are really coming from in you, SL. Might find out if you're in the present or not.

Why not dwell on how great you felt before...and nothing really changed...except PWC reiterated what you may have believed he no longer thought...when you immersed yourself in your stuff, owning your half, you felt great...it's as if his words sucked you over into his stuff...

And the drinking gave shape to them...maybe you linked them? Like his weekend drinking now means he's not committed, he's using the bottle, using you, using the marriage? Find that sneaky assumption...worming a hole in your heart and stealing your focus.

I don't see you with flaws at all...I see you with habits...habitual perceptions, perspectives and thoughts...which we change, and so change our lives.

Remember that spiral staircase when you feel back at square one...you are not. Can't be. Sure does feel like it at times, when we face the same pole again...look at the view...it's different...your view...where you stand. Not what PWC is doing or not...making his stuff about you...

That's my main issue, too, SL...taking my DH's distracting, distancing to be about me...distracting from me (I'm his pain)...distancing from me (I'm causing him pain)...when it's not about me...it's his stuff...his choice...his way...about him.

I wanna be the cause so I can be the cure and in control.

My habitual perspective...not real...never was...know that...face that pole again and again...still climbing upward, though.

Aren't we? Together?

LA

EXACTLY!!



again..EXACTLY...



3 times...EXACTLY...




Yes..indeed...

I pulled out one of my bibliotherapy books:

From LITTLE MISS PERFECT: A RECOVERY BOOK FOR ADULT CHILDREN


We had to learn to SUPPRESS OUR FEELINGS in order to manage to function within the HORROR that surrounded us...

Oh, lord, this is my biggest fear right now. THIS is what I fear. I know that it's not so. I know because I have already been in places that I thought would persist, and never change, but I changed, and so did the sitch. I know it's fear, and I know I will walk thru it, and my impatience is showing.



Uh huh.



Yup, doing that right now, definitely. Lotsa stuff in the past, not REAL, not present



and it hurt a great deal to hear that from him, and I let it consume me, inside



and I'm having a hard time believing that he's NOT using me, or that I'm ALLOWING it to happen. Then I think he's so lost in himself, bumping into me now and then. I feel invisible sometimes, and I allow that to invade my perceptions. I'm not invisible. I matter.

I fell like it's one of those dreams where you hear some ruckus upstairs, and run up there, looking down the hallway. You hear cries coming from the other end of the hallway and begin to walk closer, then the hallway extends, lengthens, the cries grow louder and you begin to walk quickly, the hallway lengthens more, then you begin running, sprinting, but never reach the door.

It's good to get this gobbledygook out of my head, let it go.

LA...you sure know how to hit the spot!

...and know that, in addition to helping SL, you are helping soooo many others who are following SL's journey.

Thank you...LA

...and thank you, SL, for being so open about what you are experiencing....

...I am always touched to see how, even though on the outside we are supposedly all 'strangers' to each other, we are able to 'connect' at such deep emotional level.... because at some point or other, many here have been, are, and will be, where you ARE right now....

Hang in there, SL.... and you will be able to dust yourself off...get back on that HORSE...and continue riding forward....

((((((((((((((((((SL))))))))))))))))))

Beautiful post, Luna...you captured my MB experience so well...

And SL, you are helping ME...do you understand? I didn't sit with my fear, hold it, talk to it, listen...I acted from it, too...just these past few months...chose the old perception, old perspective (like the softest old tattered robe I discarded three years ago)...and now I understand better what you meant about experiencing it like the fear was taking you over...

when I react to it, feels that way exactly!!

I hear you...we all do...we all get this...you're not really in that dream where you don't get there...

you really are whole, already know this, and are already "there" right here...you're just not experiencing life as if it is yet...

especially since you're living over there...aren't you? Weren't you? Until today, this morning...when you caught you own attention again? Smile...this is it...right now...right here, toots. You are.

All this love...you are already loved beyond what you can imagine...you will experience and know it...might even lose the experience for a bit and regain it...comes and goes...love remains...constant...real...just our experience of it fades in and out like the sound of tides.

You're not broke, bad, crazy or a doormat. Sure can feel as if you're those things, when you choose to believe you are, eh?

You rock...you've helped so many...continue to...every day...go to TWO meetings a week if you need to...find the group that lights you up...jump on the ephiphany express...which you'll miss if you're focused on your H catching it...LOL

There's a seat with your name already on it, SL.

LA

THIS HAS TO BE YOUR FOCUS..but HE does not validate this for you..cannot validate this for you..No one else can. You have to OWN this for YOURSELF.

I've heard you say that you are not religious but I see GOD working in this.

I'm AWED by HIS WONDERFULNESS...how he provides us with just what we need in order to LEARN and GROW if we open up to receive his BLESSINGS.

Reframe your H's alcohol use as a blessing for YOU..that now you will REALLY begin your ROAD to RECOVERY for YOURSELF and YOUR SON...

Just a drive-by post to let you know that I'm still pulling for you, Amigo. No advice, though. The hatches are all battened down.

Sorry, Mimi, I completely missed this.

It wasn't just one thing, but mainly, it was me looking at the changes I'd made, making a personal INVENTORY, if you will, and seeing that I was feeling better. Then I looked at PWC, and that's when it hit me. He's not ALL IN on marital recovery. WHY?

You can't really ignore his drinking, it starts at about the same time each week, he does the same things, and acts the same way. We don't really have conversations, which I highly crave, UNLESS he's drunk. He USES it to LOOSEN UP.

Then I saw that it was GROSS to me, YUCKY. I recognized how much I didn't want to be around him when he was like that. He's steadily gaining weight, snores very loudly, therefore sleeps on the couch most weekends. It's been since about November that I started noticing this pattern emerging.

Then I acknowledged that he could have a problem and began reading. Then I began looking at how affected I was, and one thing led to another, and I'm still working on ACCEPTANCE.

SL-

I will say this. When me and my EXH were still together, and I was unhappy, I drank more. Did I drink too much? I do not think so. But, I drank to make myself feel number... to not care so much...

Perhaps this is why your H drinks? He is unhappy, and he thinks that by deadening the pain, he will be able to stay?

Neither of you seem happy in this M... it can't be good for either of you...

What are you going to get out of Alanon meetings? How to deal with your H? Is that what you want to do? That kind of concerns me...

I fear that you will be selling yourself short if you just learn how to deal with HIM... WHY? That is not what the point of a M is...

The fact that he will not touch you, it to me signals resentment...enough is enough already....

I am really pulling for you, I just do not want to see you become one of those women that SETTLE... settle for a man that does not deserve them, settle for a M that is not satisfying for them... settle for CRUMBS.... At one point, it WAS enough that he came back home. But COME ON.... he at this point HAS to do SOMETHING to DESERVE being there....

Are you happier WITH him, or WITHOUT him? Honestly? Not with him how he WAS, but with him how he IS.

Sometimes, part of a growing process is realizing that you DO deserve better... and that you do NOT need to settle...

I really just want you to be in a happy place, you seem like such a wonderful woman... considerate, caring, intelligent... just don't sell yourself short just to 'make it work'.....

SL can answer for herself..but..she grew up in an alcoholic family...and so did her H....

I'm encouraging her to go to Alanon for HERSELF...to deal with her own issues...

And earlier, SL, I said you were BEGINNING your personal recovery. I was in error. I think you are at a point of a real PERSONAL BREAKTHROUGH..an EPIPHANY..whereby when/if you choose to end your marriage, you will do so will a real sense of your own PERSONAL POWER....

It's just so AWESOME when you get to THIS PLACE of being in touch with your PERSONAL POWER...you're not quite there YET...cause you've got to learn to experience the EMOTIONAL PAIN which we learned to SUPPRESS when we were growing up..learned to suppress our own pain and to caretake others out of their pain by FIXING and CONTROLLING...gotta learn to BEAR with it and through it...

Like LA says, it helps me, too, to say all of this out loud...so I'm not preaching to you, I'm continuing with my own healing...

I really just want you to be in a happy place, you seem like such a wonderful woman... considerate, caring, intelligent... just don't sell yourself short just to 'make it work'.....

As Mimi said, Sl can speak for herself. I think we all want her to be in a happy place, and I have confidance in her that she will, whatever that means, when she is ready.

I personally am so proud of her for telling us here more of the problems she is facing and how is she dealing with it. I find it's so hard to admit alot of things EVEN in cyberspace that are so personal.

SL keep up the good work. You ARE making progress, we see it even if you don't. There is light at the end of the tunnel.

Sadmo, I can appreciate your concern. YOu haven't said anything that I haven't or don't say to myself, or haven't posted here for that matter. Rest assured that I will not continue in a marriage where I cannot be happy.

I know that PWC distances himeself, even if alcohol is not involved. I do too, for that matter. THAT is just one of the many reasons that I seek help right now. I have to learn better boundaries and better communication, and to speak of my boundaries without fear. I have major issues GIVING out of guilt or compulsion, not always from love. Since I'm not even close to sure what I need to do or want to do, no decision, by me, will be made, for a set time.

Let's also consider that either one of us can leave at any time. Lately, I've wondered if setting boundaries and being more O&H will give us both the answer we soooo desire. Change in me will, inevitably, create a shift in our situation. I can't "make it work". IT takes both of us, working together. I can't FIX this, I know that, but healing myself and feeling what can be overwhelming loss and sadness needs to be dealt with. I'm not prepared, on top of all of that, to raise a ruckus today, and deal with that TOO.

If one were to ask me if this marriage will work out, knowing what I know TODAY, the outlook is bleak. That's what I know TODAY. I also know that I have a lot to learn before I am sure of the decision to stay or go. I can't, in good conscience, make a flimsy decision.

Today, we are going to see the movie "The Spiderwick Chronicles". I look forward to getting out and doing one of my favorite activities. I just love the movie theatre.

I'm going thru all of this for a purpose. It may not reveal itself for some time, but to everything, there is a purpose.