WOW!! I believe that will ALL MY HEART, too, SL!!

I'm gonna meet up with you one day in the future. We have business in your city. You are such a KINDRED SPIRIT! Your GROWTH is like a breath of fresh air to me!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

((((SL))))

SL,

Just dropping by to let you know i am thinking of you today. Hope you are feeling a little better today.

And also to let you know that you are not alone on the commercial crying LOL!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Hi SL,



...this is a belief that I am also working hard at 'adopting'....

...and just want you to know...although I hate to admit it, even though this A business is an EXTREMELY painful process, and wish it could have been a less painful EXPERIENCE to 'get to it'...it is what got me to a place that made it necessary for me to LOOK INWARD... and surprisingly... find....INSPITE of the fear! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />.... the courage, the strength, the patience, the confidence, the self-care to do what it takes to continue to RESPEST and LOVE myself.... and help me ACCEPT, if the person I WISH I could share my life with IS CHOOSING to do otherwise, to PART ways....and KNOW that I will be...OK inspite of it!

...and I have to honestly say....that I like myself better TODAY than the person I was...YESTERDAY!

..but like MIMI says....I, too, am learning to HOLD BACK...TRUST and have CONFIDENCE that others to be able to TAKE OF THEMSELVES.... stop the habit of wanting to FIX and CONTROL situations, even when asked...which we eventually learned to do automatically even WITHOUT being asked... to PLEASE... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />.... because someone else....wanted to avoid...PAIN...

...this does and is CHANGING the dynamics of all my relationships.... I am finding this particularly helpful in my role as a parent.... what helps me to allow my boys to EXPERIENCE life, the good and the bad, TRUST them to fall and KNOW that they will be able to FIGURE it out.... and just be a 'safety net'... a harbour to come home to...where they can seek comfort when they need it... a place to heal....to get ready for the next challenges LIFE has in store for them..... and as a parent NOT have the sense of responsability we are the CAUSE of all their life experiences... it makes the load lighter to live with....and more true to reality....

...because, in fact, what I see now is... that PAIN is part of the process of growing and changing... and it is NOT being HELPFUL to...help/enable <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />.... someone else...and ourselves...find ways to... AVOID IT!!

....who knew!???? ....when we have been taught the contrary.....to do what it takes..and excel... in AVOIDING...pain! URGHHH! ... and there are sooooo many 'tempting' ways available to do it! ....

...but it does come at a high price ....a sense of powerlessness.... due to the 'disconnection'....within OURSELVES...!

...all the more reason, I think, we need to be patient with ourselves.... seeing that, at so many levels, we are going AGAINST the grain.... trying to change habits that have taken...years and years to learn...!

So..SL....be kind to yourself.... it may mean a step or two backwards... to go three or four forward! ...you know what I mean?

(((((((((((((SL)))))))))))))

Silent:

I stand in awe of you.

So MUCH has been revealed to you in the past couple of weeks.

About You, and About Others.

You can not work on the problem until you know what the problem is.

You have started to peel the onion and have started to get to WHAT you need to be working on.

And that may not include PWC. He needs to unwrap his OWN onion.

Good luck to you.

I believe that is will be a successful journey for you.

(((S/L)))

LG

SL,



I agree 110% with LF!

I see someone who courageously takes the risk to start the cycle....of asking herself some tough questions... inspite of the pain and the fact, that in so doing, some tough decisions may or may not follow....

....SL.... I feel privileged that you allow so many of us to follow you along what must be a very vulnerable and very painful time in your life's journey.... and to learn....by example...as many of us here may be walking the same path....TRYING to do the same thing...but sometimes don't know HOW!

Thank you...as I send you limitless 'cyberhugs'


(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((SL)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

Every morning, I wake up with the nagging thought that I want to ask him to leave. EVERY MORNING! Every morning, I ask God to show me the way, to reveal to me why I'm thinking on this so much. The answer I came up with this morning is that I'm afraid and I need something to do to begin fixing the situation. Unfortunately, that answer didn't stop the desire to want to do it.

I yearn for peace. I almost feel like this is another Dday, for a very different reason. This problem PREDATES any affairs, and in our case now, supersedes them. Luckily, I've let a lot of the affair stuff go. My main concern all of this time has been OUR lack of intimacy. I don't think there is much more I can do in that department, but I'll keep asking, praying and waiting for the answers.

I like waiting for the answer; it frees me from this huge burden of making these BIG decisions when unsure or uninformed. It's scary, though. I'm so used to making the hard decisions, and then dealing with the consequences.

Anyhoo, I'm glad I got all that out.

I'm fairly bewildered by PWC these days. I've been looking for a nice shoe rack to go beside the door, as you walk in, so that we have a convenient place for our shoes and bags. Went out last week to find something, but nothing really pleased me. Went out yesterday, looking for the same, and nothing pleased me. I finally said that I would go online to see what I could find. We were at Lowes. PWC decided he would just build one. So he did, and it's really nice. He's probably going to stain it the Mohogany that we both liked so much.

I just don't get him. One thing I can say is it got him out of the house for several hours, so maybe it's just another way of avoiding me. I prefer to think of it as a present, a gift, but that nagging little doubter in my head keeps me questioning his motives for everything.

I honestly don't even know why he bothers to sleep in the same bed with me.

Meh, so many random, sad thoughts that drift in and out of my mind all day long, and some pain associated with loss. Just like a dday.

And now it makes sense to me why I couldn't relate to those in recovery here. I still can't.

I believe part of the reason I want to ask PWC to leave is because he's had TWO affairs, we've had now, what, FOUR false recoveries, and I want to be out from underneath this rubble. The load I carry right now feels so heavy. I'm PHYSICALLY tired every day, for more reasons than all of this, but it's a major contributing factor.

THIS is why I want him to be gone. I don't want to deal with the marriage anymore, the anger, the falseness of it all. I don't want to play nice. I want to be mean. I want to berate him, make him feel lower than low. BUT, none of that will solve any of this.

I am trying to see the point of us staying together, beyond the concern for my son and finances. What point is there? I can heal with Alanon without him being present.

I'm struggling, sometimes every minute.

UGH!

Yea..it's was more like a FALSE RECOVERY...

The key is to take PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY for what belongs to YOU..

Why did YOU choose HIM as a HUSBAND?

Could this guy, prone to ADDICTIONS, have felt FAMILIAR..like one of the family?

Do you not have any love left for HIM...the PWC that is NOT SICK?

I say ask the folks at ALANON about this.

I'm not saying that I don't understand you ending it.

I just want to help you to make sure that you're not RUNNING.

You're in some kind of recovery, but it's not the one we all hope for. Still lots of heavy loads to carry. I'm sorry.

(((SL)))

Mimi,
I recognize THIS as false recovery, most definitely.

I also recognize my need to feel like I'm solving the worlds problems, or just PWC's. It wasn't addiction that drew me to him, it was his ATTENTION to me. I basked in it. I began to EXIST IN IT. All else before that meant nothing. I thought everybody felt like that; that without this person, I was not be complete, WHOLE. As a child, I felt insignificant, ignored. Well, now I'm being ignored again, and feel insignificant to PWC. I don't feel insignificant, though, just TO PWC.

Now, I know that not to be true, that as an individual I'm whole.

I have lots of love left for my husband; the one I miss a great deal. This person before me is alien to me. The question is, is this who he's been all along, or has he changed. If I were to go by his actions now, and in the past, I'd say his actions have changed, but his fair-weather attitude has NOT. If I were to bo by conventional wisdom, this IS who he is NOW. Can I accept him as he is now? Hmmmm, tough one. I'd have to say NO. A touchless marriage. YEUCH! I cringe thinking of continuing like this.

I want to make sure I'm not running, either. I'm having a hard time seeing what the point of staying together is. I want MORE from my spouse. Maybe that's attainable, over MORE time. Am I willing to wait it out, to woo him back, to bend over backwards, to turn inside out, or whatever it requires? I can't say that I am.

I'm pretty tired. Maybe I haven't done enough. If you were to ask me today, I'd say I've done MORE than enough for the M. I can't speak for how PWC feels. From what he's said, he CAN'T love me, chooses not to (because he doesn't FEEL it). Is this the disease or how he really thinks? Do I care to stick it out longer to get the SAME answer over and over again.

As far as being ACOA, and also a spouse of an alcoholic, can't I heal outside of this marriage? Is it really worth trying to save beyond what I have done?

This last two weeks, I haven't attended to him at all. I have done for him when I want to, which is not often. More often than not, I cook when *I* want to, when I want to laze around, I do. I don't want to be around him. I haven't learned to happily exist in his presence. I let it affect me too much. I played pool by myself and with my son. Anger is real, and present. Not necessarily directed to him, but he situation that I find myself in, that I chose.

I'm sorry that I have no real answers. The only thing that is prevalent right now, is the question of whether to continue this marriage. My heart tells me to end it, suffer the withdrawal and the loss and move on. My head tells me the same, but then questions my reasons.

It's very frustrating. I don't want to learn to tolerate the disease. I want a full, happy marriage. I don't believe, from what I've read so far, that that is possible with an alcoholic.

This is not very cheery, but it's real, honest, truth. I'm okay, though, folks. I'm not going off the deep end. I'm heavily challenged. What a mess. blech!

People such as PEP live very happily with RECOVERED alcoholics..

I wonder what she would say to you if she chooses to respond if you put out a shout out to her...

I've heard her say that it would be a dealbreaker if her H starts to drink again..

He is very active in AA...

SL - Was your husband ever a good husband to you?

Doing the shelves was a nice thing, and I'm sure you gave him lots of admiration.

How long has he been in NC with the OW? It took my ex about 8 months to come out of the fog.

Hi believer,

Hmmmm, well, in many ways, PWC was a great husband, a great companion, UNTIL we had our son. After that, I believe he resented me for MY CHOICE to have a child and CHANGE his life. It was and still isn't a WE situation, except NOW he says that his son is his HERO. BWAH? Confusion abounds. NOW he's okay with having a kid, but when it was VERY DIFFICULT, and there was much work to be done, he was not there, or reluctantly there.

I did tell him how lovely the shelf was, how well crafted and how much nicer it was than anything I could have bought.

NC has supposedly been in place for 8 months.

Believer, what was it like when the fog cleared for your husband. Being as your end result was still separation and divorce, how did him coming out of the fog make a difference? Was there something that truly changed in him, or was it just that the affair fog wore off? Was he still distant with you then?

Mimi, I should be more specific, I don't think that the sort of relationship I want is possible with an ACTIVE alcoholic, and I don't want to settle, even if that means being alone. I'd RATHER be alone. When I grieve, it's for the loss of what was, not what is. What is is not good. It's sterile; it's what I NEVER wanted.

This IS a loveless marriage, from my POV. Maybe not his, but mine.

My ex just suddenly became himself again. I can't say it was overnight, because I wasn't in contact with him much. But one day he just came over and seemed just like the man I used to love.

He was very regretful, said he wished the affair never happened, told me what a mistake it was. He also said it sure wasn't a match made in heaven! During the affair they were soulmates and God wanted them to be together.

I can't explain it, but I think most women KNOW when they are wanted and admired. It was in his eyes and words.

Before, he always had excuses and talked about what a loser he was.

And now it makes no difference to me at all, other than it DOES prove the MB theory that the real spouse comes out of it after the affair.

I'm trying to figure out how you can have him in the home and still guard your heart. Believe me, when it gets to the point where you are so hurt you lose respect for him as a man, it is just about impossible to turn it around. I don't WANT to work on anything with him.

THAT is a look I haven't seen in years. The hurt is HUGE right now, and feels like it compounds every day that goes by that things remain the SAME.

I'm having a very difficult time being still.

I think you need to set a date in your mind when you will move forward with divorce if things don't change. That way you won't see this going on forever.

Because if it goes on too long, I think a wife develops a hardness in her heart toward her husband.

In the meantime, look for the good things. When you think he is going to be drinking, go do something fun AWAY from him. Get stronger physically too. You've gone through a lot.

Hi SL,

You really have gone through quite a bit. You mentioned that you are having a hard time being still...I know that feeling. Truthfully, you have been still for a long time..and nothing changed. That is probably why you are having a hard time remaining still..I am not saying that you should make any hasty decisions...because clearly, it's not healhty to make decisions when you are unsure or in an emotional state...I just want to ask you, what are your boundaries as it relates to your M? What are you not willing to accept? You don't have to answer that here, it's just something you may want to start defining.

I really feel once you define what your boundaries are and start to live your life from that place, you will know that it is time to do what is best for You and your son. Based on your posts, It is clear that you have done a lot of work on your own personal recovery. You can continue to work on yourself...You don't sound as though you are willing to live with PWC in a loveless marriage where you are not touched and where no affection is shown toward you. Most people couldn't do it for as long as you have. The alcohol issue only compounds the problem moving forward with recovery, because he is not plugged in. There is nothing you can do about that. However, there is much you can do about setting your boundaries and making decisions in accordance with those..

Working on yourself and your issues is something you can do through Alanon, or counseling...and it only takes your effort to do that..It is not unreasonable that you have been frustrated with the situation in your M, because it takes two people to make that M work..Only you can decide what you are willing to accept in a M...I understand, as ACOA myself, you can heal yourself regardless of your decision to remain in the M or not..If you do not remain in the M, you are not necessarily running away....Once you feel you are completely moving from a place of personal stregnth with your boundaries firmly in place, you will know the difference between making a solid decision that is healthy for you vs. just running away..only you can decide when that will be.

This is only my opinion, so take it for whatever it's worth ..If your boundary is "I will not live with an addicted spouse"...there is nothing wrong with that decision...
Again, this is just my opinion....I hope everything works out for the best for you.

(((SL)))

This really resonated with me, robertswife. I'm not coming from a place of personal strength right now, I'm coming from habits and old behaviors and ways of thinking. Awareness has hit me square between the eyes and I'm dealing with what can only be described as a fight of flight situation. It's much like I felt on Dday.

I'm not calm, I'm not clear, I'm not at peace, and I don't feel strong. So, I'm obviously not ready to throw down the gauntlet, with unclear purpose.

I was reminded by a little birdie, we'll call her BR, for brevity, that I'm in the stage of awareness, and acceptance hasn't even taken place. I KNOW THIS, DANGIT, so why is it so hard to sit still? I know the answer to that one, too. The thought occurred to me, maybe if I issue an ultimatum, he'll get better, he'll come back to me, he'll be okay. Hmmm, well, what about ME? Oh, right, I'm not focused on me.

Oh and BR (the little birdie) reminded me that NOTHING HAS CHANGED since awareness; NADA, ZIP, nothing has changed, not the drinking, not our marriage (actually, PWC seems to have become more engaged, so figure that one out), not my position on not wanting to be in a loveless marriage. What has changed is that I see a major problem, and I want to set about fixing it.

Yesterday was not a good day; I was hyperfocused on getting out. Getting away was my goal. I wasn't clear on how or when or even why, i was just focused on removing THE OBSTACLE; PWC.

After a sort of good nights sleep, I recognized that I feel much better when I do things for myself, like Alanon, and reading, and cooking, and cleaning, and hot tubbing, and talking with friends and so much more. Why my focus was so off is unbeknownst to me right this second, but I'm sure there was a trigger involved.

Today is a new day.

The rollercoaster resumes.

{{SL}}

I don't have much time here, but I just wanted to let you know that I have been following your thread and feeling your pain and pulling for you...

I was in almost the same sitch as you so I do understand how strong a person it requres to be as still as you have been...And don't blame yourself for having the thoughts of escaping it all under this circumstances.

My H went through 8 months of withdrawal also and during those 8 months, there was no touching initiated from him...

I didn't have thoughts of giving up while WH was deep in the fog, I guessed I just wanted to fight and win...but I'm having those thoughts pretty often after he turned a corner. Even now. So be warned that if you stay in this sitch for too long, even if your WH turned back to you, you might have lost too much respect for him and it would be hard to truly let go of the resentments built up along the way...

I'm just thinking aloud: why don't you talk to him about those thoughts of yours? What do you have to lose by telling him your pain? I did that not because I wanted to, I just couldn't hold it longer than two weeks and I was weak so I poured it all out every now and then and WH had it all...I'm sure some of my painful blowouts will stay in his memory for the rest of his life.

Is it possible that your WH seeing your being still, yet always seem availabel for rebuilding, as a ticket for getting away with not putting enough effort to your M?

I'm not sure. I'm just thinking being emotionally honest with your H shouldn't be a bad thing for you, you need to channel your pain in some way and bottle them up would possibly result in your resentment to grow to a point of no return. Just my 2 cents.

Take care.

Snow

Hi Snow,

I have spoken to PWC about my feelings, even about the drinking. I haven't spoken to him in the past two weeks, regarding his drinking. Right now, anything I would say would probably come off as uncaring and angry, or he would just think I was repeating myself, and not hear me. I don't want to do that. He IS aware of how I feel, and I have been honest with him these months since he came home.

I don't like repeating myself, either. I feel like I've done that a lot in the past; something PWC would call HARPING on a subject. Ewwwww.

I don't hold onto the anger and pain for very long these days. I process it as it comes, even if that means posting here, emailing or talking it out, I get it out and work on it.

I appreciate your take on things, Snow. It's always helpful to get another perspective. Today has been a much better day.