Hello, a newbie here. I usually don't post to forums but this one is too important not to give it a try. I've been spending all of my free time here the last few days that I've discovered this site reading and reading everything I can.

My situation is this. My husband and I have been together 19 years next month and married 17 years of that. We married at 22. We have a 19 year old son.

Our lives together have been difficult; we've had many, many circumstances beyond our control to overcome. We always overcame them and went on. We joked that if we didn't have bad luck we would have no luck at all. My husband served in the military until 2001 when he got his current job with the government. Both took/take him away from his family for extended periods of time.

Over the years I've always thanked God for a husband that was so good to me, respected me, loved me, was attracted to me, you get the idea. We were a great team in so many areas and each others biggest cheerleader. The one area we failed was free time spent together. I felt that because he was away so often that he could never spend enough time with his family. He didn't see it that way. He really enjoyed his free time with his friends and I felt his family was getting shortchanged. Was he right that he didn't get enough time or was I right that he had plenty of time and he was being selfish, I have no idea? But it was our area that we just couldn't come to an agreement on.

When my husband first started the new job with the government our first assignment was overseas. It was an extremely stressful time for us (lots of circumstances beyond our control again) as we were trying to handle having to move to this particular part of the world. Our son was having a stressful time of it as well of course. Just before we were to move my husband kind of had a meltdown of some sort and told me he didn't feel love for me anymore and didn't understand why not. How did he get to the point where he didn't look forward to being with me he wanted to know. We got over that with lots and lots of talking and promises from me to meet his emotional needs even before I knew anything about this board. We started fresh in this new location with more outside circumstances affecting our day to day lives but acting like newlyweds again outside of that. We probably could have used some counseling to go along with our new start but the language barrier in the new country prevented that.

Presently we are back living in the States and have so for just over a year. Over Labor Day weekend, out of the blue I got the speech again. The "I love you but am not in love with you" speech. This one shocked me because I was rolling along thinking everything was fine again. September was a hectic month for him; he had to go out of town for work off and on. And my family came for a visit as well. I hid our issues from them while they were here. But the whole month I went above and beyond regarding the things he said were wrong with us again. Namely, what was wrong was with me and me not giving him the freedom again to play with his guy friends. Oh yeah, and I didn't have the same interests he did and we had grown apart. He has a group of friends from work that are all into riding dirt bikes and drinking beer just like he is. By the way I also have a dirt bike and can ride (it was my birthday present a few years ago). I like all of these men and their wives too; I would say none of them are a bad influence on him. That month I was also playing on a coed softball team sponsored through his job that he had signed us up for. Because "we don't have the same interests". Ugh.

October 5th he announced to me that he was moving in with one of the single guys that he works with. Of all the guys he works with this one would be the one that I would want him to stay away from. He did say that we should try counseling but he really wanted a divorce. We found the counselor together and started to go. After the first meeting she said that we should continue the separation and that I shouldn't call my husband so much. She said I needed to wait until he missed me. Now I've never been to marriage counseling before but I didn't expect to be told to stay separated. How do you work on a marriage living separate lives? My husband was happy because he felt like she was telling him he was right. Besides, this man has had numerous deployments and is very self sufficient, it's going to take a long time for him to miss me.

I went into a downward spiral after this. Much like every one else here has described. I will spare you the gory details. My husband and I were trying to have a date night once a week as well. Those only went ok. Then life happened for us again as it always does. Mid-October he received orders to active duty again to continue on to Iraq. He istrying to postpone or even get exempt from these orders through the proper channels but it's not looking very hopeful. With his stressful job, the stress of the orders, and the stress we were going through I think he finally decided which of these stresses can I get rid of. I know let's lose the wife. So he pushed me and pushed me to start the divorce process right away. I even spoke with an attorney. He did not because he is making me all these promises about taking care of me after the divorce. I finally put my foot down at the beginning of this month and said "I don't know what you are going to do but I haven't fought hard enough for this marriage and neither have you for that matter, I don't want to discuss divorce any further." When he started pushing for the divorce he decided to stop seeing the marriage counselor. He said that he was through with them and didn't want to have to cry and tell another stranger what was going on. Which was fine with me because I wasn’t getting anything from her anyway? I just started seeing someone else for myself and I do like her better but the verdict is still out.

Since the separation he has been drinking a lot more than he ever has. He's been very self-centered and acting just like this is a mid-life crisis. Doing what he wants whenever he wants. We rarely see or hear from him. I hear these things through the grapevine. But yesterday we did have a pseudo date-night again. I met him at a sports bar and then convinced him to come to the house to watch some of our favorite programs that I had DVRed. I fed him while he was there to help sober him up. He exchanged vehicles with me because he was going to do some maintenance on mine. The evening went well I thought. I had started reading this site and started to put into action the positive things I learned.

I haven't heard one word from him today and he isn't answering his phone or picking up his voicemails. I have his password so I do know when he gets my messages and I can listen to any other messages he may have, in case there was another woman.

I don't seem to be dealing at this time with an affair. I have people watching him for me. I have snooped and snooped. I also know the password for his email account. I've checked on him to see if he is where he says he is or where he should be. So I'm finally at my question for you all, which is where do I go from here? He just doesn't seem to want to reconcile the marriage especially since the orders arrived.

I apologize for the long background. I left out a lot of details but that's the gist of it.

Even though you don't have proof of an A, your H is displaying the symptoms of it.

Best you get a plan and deal with it as if you are dealing with an A.

Read Surviving an Affair (Harley) & Love must be tough (Dobson).

Secure your finances and document everything.

Call Steve H for a plan AFTER you have read SAA.

L.

I agree with Orchid, my WH started acting very selfish, etc right before he started the A. I wasn't told he didn't love me or that he wanted a D or many of the things you listed. I thought things were great between us really, but I didn't understand the selfish 'stage' he was going through, but I know that many times when a man all of a sudden faces something big like having a baby (in my case I believe) or anything in which he has to face reality and do a lot of growing up they become very selfish, or run away or have affairs. But I say fight with all you've got!!!! Encourage him to see your new counselor with you, keep up the date nights and meet his emotional needs.. really you could do a plan A, even though he's not having an A I don't think it would hurt at all!! I'll say a prayer for you tonight... I hope everything works out for you two! Keep us posted!

He DOES sound like someone engaged in an affair. Our D was final 8/30/07. The speech, the independent behavior, the disdain, all began after he made "bestfriends" with a work colleague (female).

Spy and monitor as much as you can, not letting him know you are doing it. Don't give yourself away.

Dump the counselor. She's an idiot.

And, as Orchid said, secure your finances.

There's a woman somplace in this mess, or my name isn't Bellevue.

Well, I can't tell you whether or not he's having an A (and neither can/should anyone here) and that wasn't your question anyway.

As for what to do next? I personally don't think a marriage can be saved if both people in it don't want it to be saved. It takes TWO to make a marriage work. I would NOT file for divorce if you're not the one who wants it. But I also wouldn't try to drag him back to you if that's not what he wants either.

I would step back from the situation and just wait it out. Go about your daily life as usual and let him know that you're there if he wants to talk, etc. but you're not going to be at his beck and call and you're not going to file for divorce, and you're also not going to beg him to stay married to you.

I used to tell my husband I wanted a divorce all the time. I also told him that I didn't have the same feelings for him as I once did. It wasn't an idle threat on my part. I believed it to be true. And the times that he "begged" me to stay, just made me feel more secure in my convictions to leave. It was only when he said "i'm here if you want to talk" and then left me completely alone for a while, that I really started to think long and hard about whether or not I wanted to be married to him. The answer was yes.

Sometimes giving them space is what they need to realize what they're about to give up so easily.

Good luck!!!!

Ok, thank you for your suggestions. I will look into purchasing those books today. When you say to document everything, please clarify, what exactly should I be documenting. Our state is a no-fault state.

I've tried to get him to see the counselor as well even if it was by himself initially and he seemed to like the idea at first. But when we were together the other night he said he didn't think it would do any good.

The date nights are hard to keep up when we are barely speaking through the week. Like I said whenever he has free time it's all about him. At this point I see him for a few hours once a week. But during the week when I do speak to him I make sure everything is light and easy. I want to be the one area in his life right now that isn't causing him stress. As well when we are together I try to keep it that way. But once he is alone with me he gets in a negative mood saying things like "God hates me."

Should I also get the Four Rules to a Successful Marriage book in order to understand completely Plan A? Thank you for the prayer as well I need them.

Want2believe, I completely disagree with your advice.

First, no one here has said unequivocally that her H is having an affair. Is he? ALMOST CERTAINLY! Not quite 100%, but after you have been through this a few times, the whiff of affair-stench is very recognizable. Which is why I would second Orchid's advice: even if you are unable to verify an A, it looks like it, so treat it the same.

Second. a not-so-wise Advisor said much the same thing as you did, in that a marriage can't be saved if both people don't want to be saved. That is true in a way, but the sad fact is NO ONE in an affair EVER wants to save a marriage. Thus the MB process is invaluable in helping the WS reach the point where they do want to participate in saving the M.

Third, this not-so-wise Advisor, also told another poster to step back from the situation and wait it out. That sounds like a fast track to a divorce to me. "Waiting it out" and "fighting for your marriage" are polar opposites.

Byrd, welcome. Just take your time and start educating yourself about affairs. Time is on your side in this. If your H is having an A, and it really sounds like he is, his chances of responding to your MB-based plan are very good.

I, as with many many of us here, can testify that MB works. For the majority it works to restore the marriage, and for the rest it still works to restore the BS, and to help them heal, knowing they did everything they could to save their marriage.

I'm trying to absorb all this info. I am going to be away from the computer for a while. I have to do a drive by to see if he is at the guy friends house like he should be, go to church and the book store. Thanks again for listening to my situation.

want2believe, "giving them space" is about the worst thing one can do in these situations. That is the PROBLEM, so it can't be the solution. And yes, we can and do tell people when it is likely their spouse is in an affair. Unfortunately, we are almost always right.

And yes, many marriages have been saved on this forum when only one person wanted the marriage. It might take TWO to save a marriage, it often takes ONE to get them to that point and attract them back into the fold.

Byrd, the biggest problem here seems to be the DETACHMENT that has occured in your marriage because of sporadic seperations. A seperation is devastating to a marriage, as you can see. Your MC is an idiot if she thinks seperation will make you miss each other, that is ludicrous.

Is your H being deployed again? What are your ages? Your post is so long that it is hard to root out pertinent details.

MelodyLane,
I know my first post was so long. I didn't know quite what would be important and what wouldn't be.

In regards to my husband's job he goes out of town on "missions" on occasion. He doesn't work directly with any women, when he goes it's with a small crew of men. Regarding his orders back to active duty we are waiting to hear exactly when that will occur. When and if it does so that is suppose to be 400 days.

My book store only had Dr. Harley's book His Needs Her Needs. I guess I'll have order from online.

And to add to everything else my husband seems to be unaccounted for since I spoke with him yesterday in the am.

Byrd, the travel has been disasterous to your marriage and has led to this state, IMO. I would order Surviving an Affair off this website. The Harleys sell it cheap and ship for cheap. I would also strongly consider phone counseling with Steve Harley. He will assess your situation and give you a PLAN. He understands the dynamics of a marriage and can coach you through this. He will not waste your time with nonsense and is worth every penny. He can often do in 1 session what others can't do in 10.

But the biggest problem I see here is detachment that has been fueled by seperations. That has to be overcome if you are going to save this. I think Steve could help you bring your H back into the fold. If anyone can, he can.

I think a phone counseling session with Dr. Harley would be a wonderful opportunity at this point. I wonder if I could get my husband to sit in on that? That would be awesome. But if not I would consider doing it alone.

He will not want your H in on the initial sessions because doing that just leads to B*TCH SESSIONS. He talks to each spouse individually, though, so he may ask to speak to your H ALONE.

Well, we had a couple phone conversations today. He was going to come over and then changed his mind. I think the best way to describe him now is emotionally divorced. I'm in this alone. It's so sad. I had such a good outlook when this day started too, even though I had come down with some sort of cold/flu bug. I am going to make an appointment to speak to Dr. Harley tomorrow though.

Let us know how it went.

Just a word of encouragement, the fact that he is right now emotionally distant from you does not mean that you can't reconnect. You can. Keep on being not-clingy, happy, and an attractive (in every sense, not just physically) person to be around. Help him remember why he fell in love with you in the first place, and don't be discouraged if you don't see instant results. You can do this.

Oh, I wish I had read your post earlier as a reminder because I had such a melt down today. I've been so sick with this cold/flu thing and feeling crummy with that and NOT looking physically attractive because of it. He came by to discuss some vehicle maintenance issues on my car. Long story short I invited him over for Thanksgiving dinner. He declined because he said he didn't want to lead me on and he absolutely is through with considering reconciliation he wants to be divorced by the time he goes to Iraq. I begged and pleaded and forgot all about the things I should have been doing instead. It just ended very badly.

We think that his having to go to Iraq will be inevitable and will probably happen in January. The other sad thing too is that he is not talking to our 19 year old because he knows the boy is mad at him.

I have scheduled an appointment with Dr. Harley for Wednesday anyway. I will keep it. I'm also talking with a good friend that, has knowledge, about my options for my future financial situation.

Live and learn. It's ok, you will get better at this. I am just coming down with a cold, too, so you have my sympathies.

For future reference, this is how I would see upcoming invitations going:

Byrd: (offhandedly) Hey, DS and I are going to [insert fun event], want to come with us?

WS: How many times do I have to tell you?????? I am done!!!!! I will not reconcile with you!!!!!!!!! If I came, you might get your hopes up.

Byrd: (unconcernedly) Oh, okay. Well, let me know if you decide to come after all. So how is [insert subject he is interested in] going? (smile brightly) Wow! That's great!


Don't worry about today...water under the bridge. Just keep practicing. And it will be really interesting what Dr. H recommends for your specific situation.

I have had my appointment with Steve Harley. He said that my husband's emotions were so strong right now that he couldn't even imagine being in love with me again and that was part of why he didn't want anything to do with trying to heal us. I spoke to my husband shortly after, while things were fresh in my mind. I expressed to him the things that Steve told me to say to him and my husband actually agreed to a phone counseling session.

But then he made my world crash again by saying, "I don't want you to get your hopes up. I am tired of crying about this, and hurting about this, I don't want to be married to you any more".

I simply thanked him for agreeing to talk to him. Inside my heart broke even more.

Glad you are getting counseling from the very best.

I would install a keylogger on your computer and check his phone bills. He might have had someone before you went overseas, and they may have hooked up again.