My two daughters who have some contact with WXH told me that their father spent Thanxgiving alone... He told them it was 'just another Thursday'...

I responded something like: "Well I wonder if he STILL thinks the OW was worth it?" (OW dumped him before the divorce was even final for an OM she described as 'Mr Wonderful')

Daughters responded that they think he regrets but that it's too late and there's nothing he can do now.

I informed them that even if he believed it were too late to restore the marriage it's never too late to do the right thing by apologizing and taking responsibility for the wrong he did! PLUS I reminded them that I had no assurance that my recovery efforts were going to work either, but I did the right thing and worked to keep my marriage and their fmaily together anyway, exposing myself to further heartbreak despite the unlikeliness of success.

I also pulled the older of the two daughters aside later and reminded her that the ONLY recovery attempts WXH made were attempts by him to make his cake-eating a permanent arrangement, his false recovery just to come home for Christmas and then go back to the OW, and after the OW had dumped him, he wanted me to move in with him BUT not remarry AND wanted to keep it a secret from his family and friends! THAT was the extent of HIS 'work' at recovery - his 'well I tried but your mother rejected me'!

Wise words from StarFish (on a related thread):

"Only "spouses" get to come home for the holidays. Waywards have to stay out in the cold and look through the window like the "Little Matchstick Girl". Make sure what they see....is warm and lovely without them."

words from a NewsBoys song:
"SHINE, make 'em wonder what you've got
make 'em wish that they were not
on the outside lookin' in"

enJOY the holidays!

Had fun doing a teeny bit more Christmas shopping today with youngest daughter: bought some Christmas-themed thanx note cards, a new tablecloth and pretty red/green plaid fabric napkins, some earrings for me from Santa, and a few more little gifts for the Christmas Eve grab bag. We both got our hair cut and went to a fast food restaurant too.

Just a reminder to those in Plan B to not fall for any false recovery attempts from WS.

If the WS has an increased desire to spend time with the spouse and family they left for the OP because it's the holidays, make sure that WS desire works for you instead of against you.

Don't feel guilty that you are not allowing WS to spend the holidays at home. As long as they CHOOSE to remain a WS that's one of the many things they have to give up - their choice. There's absolutely nothing wrong with the BS havin boundaries that the WS doesn't get to cross. The WS certainly has their own boundaries they employ to keep the BS and even their children out of their WS famtasy lifestyle!

bump...

I'm beginning to wonder(worry) that the motive for my WXH recently telling my daughters lies about how HE tried everything to save our marriage but that I refused to give him another chance may be his attempt to convince daughters he deserves to share holidays with us...

My best educated guess as to where WXH is right now is that he still feels very much entitled to spend holidays with us, is feeling sorry for himself that he had to spend Thanxgiving alone, and is hoping by rewriting history and playing on daughters' sympathy he can maybe get invited to share Christmas with us.

Starting to pizz me off too!

OK, I'm going to make a prediction:

Daughters are going to tell me WXH will be coming to pick them up sometime during Christmas break to go spend some time at his place... since WXH lives in another state he will try to hang around the house for a while when he picks them up and drops them off using the long drive, the girls not being totally ready to go yet, having to use the bathroom, etc. as excuses (he did this the last time)... WXH will plop his butt down on the sofa and try to make chit-chat as if nothing happened (tried this last time too - I was sort of rude and either answered as briefly as possible or ignored him, felt really annoyed by his boundary busting by the time he left).

I think I need to somehow get it across to him that's not acceptable. Should I send him sort of a Plan B letter stating why he's not welcome in my home and what he'd have to do to become welcome again? It's literally been years since I've had any hope that he might do a real recovery so it's not that I think he would comply with the MB concepts. I just want to let him know the boundaries are still in place and will remain so forever if he never changes. I mean I know I will probably see him @ our daughters' weddings but I really don't want him feeling he has some right to make himself @ home when he does visitation with daughters.

And it really isn't even the distance he has to drive to get here that has him thinking he's entitled to come in and get comfortable. He tried the same stuff before he moved out of state. Also, I KNOW he wouldn't even appreciate it if I welcomed him into my home because he feels so entitled.

I'd send him a letter asking him to call on his cell phone when he arrives and wait in the car for you to send the girls out. Vice-Versa on his return.

I wouldn't speak to him or let him into the house.

He only breaks your boundaries because you don't enforce them.

You're right BigKahuna,

It took me sooooo long to finally establish that boundary too.

Because his visits now are so infrequent, literally only a few times per year, I guess I let down my guard. I didn't anticipate him trying to cross the boundary again and wasn't prepared to confront him. Actually, I'd much rather avoid any face-to-face discussions with him about this. For a while in the past I even insisted that visitation pick-up and drop-off be done someplace other than my home. I didn't want to have to literally try to stop him at the door each time he came over.

Should I talk to my daughters too to remind them of the boundary and ask them to be ready to go before he arrives and to say their good-byes to their daddy outside?

Should I send my WXH a sort of Plan B letter as a reminder of why I set the boundary and what he'd have to change in order for the boundary to change?

"I'd send him a letter asking him to call on his cell phone when he arrives and wait in the car for you to send the girls out. Vice-Versa on his return."

Actually this was the arrangement we had finally gotten to before he moved out of state: He would call daughters on the cell phone to say when he'd be here. In fact after getting tired of his thinking he had the right to just drop by anytime to see his daughters I insisted he call an hour ahead of time! (Which after all wasn't really unreasonable as he lived almost an hour's drive away even then.) But now he waits to call them until he's just up the street even though he has a much longer drive to get here. And then they aren't ready yet... and he has to use the bathroom...

He can find a bathroom not in your home.

Maybe you should use a designated pick up and drop off spot.

Have a time set when your daughters will be ready.

Don't let the [censored] violate your boundaries and your home.

Use a friend to do the pick-up/drop off thing - don't even BE present yourself.

Time to get creative. This must be maddening for you but you can control what YOU do.

Have a hunky man there- both drinking a glass of wine. Make it like he intruded on a date. Wouldn't that drive him mad ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Really enforce those boundaries- lay the law down- if you don't want him to put a toe in YOUR house don't let him. He is not ENTITLED to this. Respect yourself by following through with what you want.

Here is my personal holiday prediction: The OW will AGAIN attempt contact. It is about time- every 3-4 months (aren't I blessed). She will send another innocent/meaningless email- hope you and the boys have a nice Christmas. UGH! I hate that my husband is unable to change his work email!

Good luck with your situation! At least you can control it - somewhat.
AM

amartini -

I liked your suggestion LOL

But I'm not dating and wouldn't want to upset my daughters with the ugly scene my WXH would probably make if jealous.

It sure would suprise my WXH, be a real 180 for sure though.

"I hate that my husband is unable to change his work email!"

Can he somehow block the OW so if she e-mails him it won't be delivered and she gets an error message saying that it's blocked?

Big Kahuna -

As far as I know neither of the daughters who still have some contact with him have any plans to see him over the holidays. Maybe he's too broke from his trip down to Florida to afford it? He had to ask youngest daughter to pay for gas on the way home from that trip - overdrew her bank account by a few dollars. Then he shorted me on the next two support payments... says he will make it up in January as he gets three paychex then instead of the normal two...

So hopefully he can't afford to drive up here and I won't have to try to re-enforce boundaries. The next time daughters make plans to see him I will send him a Plan B letter reminder of the boundaries via e-mail so I hopefully won't have to try to confront him in the doorway. (I never actually sent him a Plan B letter - just consistently verbalized what needed to be done over an extended period of time before going to Plan B.)

Daughters say he spent Thanxgiving alone - 'it was just another Thursday' for him.

OW's problem not mine IMHO... Not my fault the OW HE CHOSE instead of me dumped him for another man and he is now alone...

Sucks being him....

"Sucks being him...."

Yea, poor baby...

According to comments from youngest daughter apparently he and his family are pretending he's depressed over the divorce... just like when his first wife divorced him (several years before I met him)... I was actually sort of surprised daughter brought up his first wife/divorce and asked her what she knew about it. She said she could 'tell by what Grandma (WXH's mom) said that she divorced him'. I told her that was true: his first wife DID divorce him - because she had grounds for divorce just like I did - his adultery. Then I added that I didn't have to give him another chance or try to save my marriage. I could have just filed for divorce too. But because I loved her daddy, and my daughters, I didn't divorce him. I reminded her that he was the one who divorced me - for the OW. And that the only reason he is alone now is that the OW dumped him for an OM.

It looks like he's doing the same victim routine he was doing when I first met him, pretending his XW broke his heart... and his mom and siblings are playing along even though they know he divorced me for an OW.

One of his brothers had a serious flirting problem, moved out once for two weeks because he had 'fallen in love' with a coworker, moved back home saying the coworker wasn't interested in him and supposedly 'nothing happened'. Then he was fired from a job for sexaul harrassment... Eventually his wife divorced him and became involved with an OM, not necessarily in the proper order. The family pretends it was her infidelity alone which broke up the marriage... they seem to have forgotten all about how he was misbehaving too... And he is supposedly so depressed about it all.

Another of my WXH's brothers cheated on his wife, the OW got pregnant, and they moved in together (don't know whether or not he's divorced from his wife yet). When youngest daughter was visiting WXH's family she saw an argument on their family webpage, and overheard them discussing, that situation. Apparently they were all aghast at a relative objecting to that adulterous union, and calling the child a 'bastrd'. My daughter told me about this and was basically parroting comments that the outlaws had said in front of her about how awful they all think that relative is being, and how he's 'crazy' and 'a jerk'. I tried reminding her who that uncle is, times we've visited that uncle and aunt (WXH's sister) when she was little, how he's not crazy... I also reminded her how she'd also met the BW too and and asked her how she thought the BW might be feeling after learning her WH had an OW and OC who everyone except this particular uncle had welcomed into the family?

My WXH's family can't point to some OM that I supposedly cheated with, but apparently they are pretending that the divorce is all my fault anyway, and that my WXH is the one who is depressed over it. IF my WXH is depressed it is only because he didn't get to keep OW and me both - to cake-eat forever.

Also, I'm sure my WXH has more luck with the ladies by pretending his divorces weren't his fault...

I am sort of surprised though that my daughter, who knows enough of the truth to know better, seems to be going along with the story his family is spinning now! She seems to feel sorry for her dad because he's alone.

Just bumping to remind othes not to fall for fake recovery offers - make sure ALL Plan B requirements are met before allowing WS to talk you into coming home for the holidays...

or that's exactly what it will be - coming home FOR the holidays LITERALLY - ONLY for the holiday... then off WS goes back to OP fantasy life before you've even got all the wrapping paper in the recycling bin.

OK, hopefully there were no WS's who weaseled their way home for the holidays... and are now just waiting for some excuse to go back to the OP...

Yesterday, WXH kept text-messaging two out of three daughters all day... while we opened presents, played games, etc... IMHO his way of trying to spend the day with the family he dumped for the OW without having to apologize.

WXH looking less and less attractive to me each time he does something like that.

Oh and this is the same loser who when he was with OW and her little girl would turn his cell phone off so his daughters couldn't interrupt his time with the OW and her kid...

I didn't say anything about his invasion of our privacy yesterday. Just think it was sort of rude and yet another example of his failure to respect boundaries. Also, very juvenile IMHO - only people I know who text message somebody non-stop are teenagers.

This is just the latest example of my WXH's boundary busting IMHO.

I didn't see it coming, so I wasn't prepared for it.

I just realized at some point during the day that my WXH was getting to sort of spend the day with us because he was text-messaging daughters all day long. They were keeping him informed as we opened each present and basically telling him what we were up too all day long.

Middle daughter was looking at her cell phone at one point, started laughing, and said he kept bumping into things trying to walk around his place cluttered with his guitars (7 of them at last count) and all the presents from his mom. Daughter said he opened all his presents from his mom last week. (I see he still has that problem with delaying gratification... No doubt he spent the day feeling sorry for himself because he had nothing left to open...) As far as I know none of our daughters sent him a present or even a card. (He deposited some money in each daughter's bank account as his Christmas 'present' to them.)

Also, one daughter had her cell phone on the table during dinner and it buzzed a few times. I don't know if it was WXH or her boyfriend calling - didn't ask and she didn't pick up - she just looked to see who it was.

I didn't say anything and was careful to not give any indication that I was bothered by it... But now I wish I had asked daughters to put their cell phones away while we spent family time together. Of course it would have been best if I had already requested that cell phones be put away in general during holiday meals and activites BEFORE this happened... so it wouldn't look like I was objecting to them being in contact with their father... I really should make the dining room a 'no cell phone' zone.

It's sort of bugging me today and I think I should say something to middle daughter about it today? We have a long drive together and are spending the whole week together working up in Lake Placid. But I don't want her to think I'm objecting to her having a relationship with her father. And in general I don't ask them questions about their WXH or bring him up with them.

I just object to his inappropriate insertion of himself into our family gathering for Christmas. IMHO it shows a continued attitude of entitlement and lack of respect. When my daughters are at his place or when he takes them to visit his relatives, I do NOT contact them excessively! I just call or e-mail them once per day or even less. If WXH and daughters were spending the holidays with his family, and I was basically staying in contact with my daughters all throughout the day like that, I'm SURE they would all object to it as an unwelcome interruption (or even 'stalking' behavior)!