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Star, I hope you don't mind, I really loved this post and didn't want it to get lost amongst the rubble. As a side note here....one of the things I've noticed over the years about the need for SF is that sexuality is almost always what I call a "compound" need. It's not just about pleasure. Most people who have a need for SF....also have other needs bundled together around it that "complete" the need. It can sometimes be different for men and women, but generally....people who have a strong need for SF also have a strong need for other needs that are "connected" to that need....specifically....Admiration, Affection, Communication and Attractive Spouse. For many men....the admiration is almost as important as the SF because it's all tied together with how they feel about themselves. Affairs feed their need for admiration every bit as much as they feed their need for sexuality. In many ways, the admiration and emotional intimacy they get from the A is even more important.
For someone whose spouse is still involved in an active A or post A when health and safety have not yet been established....there are plenty of ways to address the need for SF without creating the kind of risk that sex itself creates for the BS. A betrayed spouse can concentrate on the other bundled needs around it...safely...and with respect for self. Admiration is a really good choice for women whose husband's have cheated. Many men see sex as an expression of admiration for them. If a BS combines that with affection and works harder at being attractive....it's not the same as SF, but it does many of the same things without creating so much risk.
And here's another thing....What's almost import as the act itself is the desire to engage in it. I'm not talking about the BS here...but the WS. Enticing the WS to <want> to have sex with the BS (whether they get it or not) is very motivating. Many times, pre-A...A and post-A, the desire for sex has waned. The WS no longer finds their spouse attractive. It's possible to work on building desire without putting the BS at risk by "jumping the gun" so to speak.
I don't know if I'm being clear or not, but what I'm trying to say is that what is derived from SF is not just SF. SF creates physical connectivity, good feelings and confidence about self and your spouse, as well as affection and physical pleasure. With the exception of intercourse, all of those things can be achieved outside of SF until it's safe to be physically intimate again. You can create closeness and desire, you can even physically satisfy someone without throwing self protection to the wind.
Finally, the most obvious (or fastest) solution is not always the best solution. In this case, that's especially true because the most obvious solution is fraught with danger. But let's say that a poster has been ignoring their spouse's need for SF, witholding it, and now their spouse has cheated. The fastest way to get their attention might be to start providing SF....but that isn't necessarily the best way. Here's why:
a) It's sacrificial and doesn't protect the BS. Ultimately, that can cause problems later on of resentment or healthy issues.
b) It creates more power and entitlement for the WS. He/she now knows that in order to get what they want....their BS may need to feel threatened and scared....or desperate to keep them.
c) It can create disrespect for the BS. The WS can look on their efforts as pathetic and desperate.
d) It rewards horrible behavior.
e) It's a shortcut that can prevent the WS from understanding that dealing with the lack of SF CANNOT be addressed in such a destructive way. They learn to get what they want through negative means....and it reinforces bad behavior.
f) It's a temporary fix. It reinforces the idea that the needs of the WS are more important than the needs of the BS. It creates a false intimacy without the WS having to make restitution or compensation for the great ills they've done to the BS.
g) And finally, it can most definitely make a BS feel like a prostitute which in the long run will hurt their ability to continue to provide SF.
I'm glad it worked so well for you Mimi, and I'm sure it would work well for others too. But I think as an <early> recommendation it's far too dangerous to advise (to me) without laying the groundwork for real intimacy first: testing, honesty, end to the affair, compensation, regret, etc. Even if a BS is successful at turning their WS's head.....there's no guarantee at ALL that they will feel good about it within themselves. Real recovery has to take BOTH spouses into account....this strategy doesn't do that for me.
None are more unjust in their judgments of others than those who have a high opinion of themselves.
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None are more unjust in their judgments of others than those who have a high opinion of themselves.
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Can I ask you to keep the discussion on the other thread?
Thanks, Daze...
I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
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That's fine Mimi. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I really just wanted to make sure more people saw this individual post. Wasn't really looking to start a whole new discussion.
None are more unjust in their judgments of others than those who have a high opinion of themselves.
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"It creates more power and entitlement for the WS. He/she now knows that in order to get what they want....their BS may need to feel threatened and scared....or desperate to keep them."
I might add that reinforcing this line of thinking in the WS is very dangerous. In my case this attitude was very much present in my WH. I think once the WS gets like this it can be addictive for them, and maybe after that having sex with somebody they respect and love will just not be enough of a 'fix' for them; they crave the high from the emotional dominance/abuse as much as or maybe even more than the physical sex.
I remember one of his false recovery attempts when he invited me out for dinner on Valentine's Day... He and the OW had been fighting a lot and had spent more time apart than together in the past several months. When he asked me out it was late in the day so I suspected he had tried getting back with OW first but things had not worked out for him... He said he wanted to get back together with me and we could go out on a date and talk about it... But as soon as I got in his car he drove straight to the nearest hotel! He claimed he wanted to eat in the hotel's restaurant... Of course they were all booked up because they were having a special Valentine's dinner/dance there. So he drove to another hotel! I told him the name of a nearby restaurant that I wanted to go to instead. We had a nice meal, he made all the right promises, he seemed remorseful - apologized and even cried, we discussed what to say to the kids, going to counseling, etc. But when he dropped me off his tone of voice and mood SUDDENLY changed! He snarled at me the if I told his mother or the OW that we had gone out together that it would be the last time he took me out! He even started cussing and screaming at me to 'GET OUT' of his car! I burst into tears and informed him that it WAS indeed our 'last date'! IMHO he was just looking for a booty call that night, had probably already been turned down by the OW, and then when things didn't pay off with me either (PLUS he had bought me dinner at an expensive restaurant) he was absolutely livid with rage.
IF the things he said during that dinner were sincere at the moment he was also enraged because he had allowed himself to be briefly humane and sane, vulnerable and apologetic. IMHO it's too demeaning and threatening for him to love and respect a woman. Whenever he starts to feel that way maybe he projects/assumes the woman's motive for 'making' him feel that way is to be able to emotionally dominate and abuse him?
Whatever... Anyway I was certainly glad that I had NOT gone to a hotel with him!
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