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UPDATE PLEASE HELP!
Okay just confronted my wife and followed your advice. Her response was not surprising. To fully understand I will provide a little insight to her state of mind since this has began.
3 months ago she came to me and told me she wasn't happy and I immediately have made dramatic changes to fulfill her emotional needs and we agreed to counseling. Within 1 week of her informing me of her unhappiness she contacted her old boyfriend from 20 years ago via email "just to say hi". This email communication started innocently enough, but quickly progressed into marginally inappropriate email compliments from the OM. Although she didn't immediately respond to his charm it eventually began to have a dramatic effect on her due to her vulnerability.
He was supposedly unhappily married for 15 years and has a 6 year old child. He told my wife that his wife and he had been sleeping in separate rooms for the last 6 years and this opened the door for my WS and the OM to begin an emotional affair via email and text.
We then began counseling for our issues that we were going to work on and this is when I came clean in our 2nd counseling session about 2 additional pieces of business debt that I withheld from her. I have done this to her 4 different times and I finally made a decision to come completely clean if we were ever going to make our marriage work. She immediately broke down and stated she wanted a divorce. Over the next few days she backed off this and decided she wanted a legal separation and possibly a year or 2 down the road we would see where we are.
In the meantime, this gave her the perfect out to continue and expand this into what it has become. Over a period of time my wife noticed the red flags and called things off with him and this is when the OM stopped at nothing to try conquer his new true love. He cried, he begged, he told her he would file for divorce (and supposedly did) all the while both of them know that geographically he can not leave the state and she can't either with the child from each of our marriages so this can't possibly go anywhere.
Over the past few weeks each of them have ended the relationshiop for a few days only to fall back into it. Each time it has ended her and I have made a little informal progress in moving towards healing and recovery, yet after the affair resumes we are back to being strangers in our own home.
This is so bizzare because 90 days ago we were both in love and thought we would never be in this position and this downfall has happened so quickly. I desperately love my wife and child and want to save my family from this awful pain that we are all going through, but my wife is becoming completely callous to wanting to even put forth effort to save our marriage.
I confronted my wife today and implemented Plan A and told her I have already made miraculous changes (which she admitted) and am willing to do whatever it takes to work on our marriage, but asked her to end this. She then became completely emotionless and heartless and said let's just end this and get a divorce and not put each other through this and stated since I was dishonest with her about finances that she had every right to see other people and that it wasn't even infidelity what she was doing. She had made it clear to me in our last counseling appointment that she wanted a divorce. Without becoming emotional I said I am not moving out and and regardless whether she decides to move forward with divorce or legal separation I love her very much and am here and willing to discuss reconciliation whenever she is. At this point I have no idea what she is thinking or what to think of her reaction and have no idea how to proceed.
Last edited by ManInNeed; 11/24/07 12:42 PM.
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I am very sorry you find yourself in this situation MIN - many of us have been there and we know how desperate it is for you. Some good news is that you are in the right place here at MB to begin to recover your life and your relationship. One big thing to realise is that short of locking up your WW, you cannot actually STOP her from continuing the affair BUT the affair is likely to end soon anyway. If you DID lock her up this would certainly only temporarily halt the affair until you let her go. Plan A is the most counter-intuitive behaviour on the planet but it has been proven to work in thousands of relationships over the years the Harleys have been counselling. Look at the sig at the bottom of my post for a useful intro. If you're plan a'ing you're already off to a great start !! If all this sounds 'not enough' remember it took a while for your M to hit a spot where an affair happened, you will not fix it by Saturday night. The GOOD news is you have started Plan A'ing right away ! Be calm, and try to choke down the panic and hurt you feel. Then say to your WW something like this I told my FWW : " I want very much to work on our marriage, as I recognize that although I'm not responsible for your infidelity, I played a part in the state of our marriage. However before we can work on our marriage, the affair must end and you must never gain have contact with the man. When you see him or contact him you knowingly twist a knife in my heart AND you deliberately prevent work on our M recovery from beginning. I will not physically stop you from continuing the affair, because I love you and would not have you SHACKLED to our marriage, but instead staying within by choice. Just know that you are deeply and deliberately hurting and humiliating someone who loves you very much by contacting the OM." Then, whatever her response, hunker down to making your home and your life a welcoming place for her to return to. Protect your finances NOW. Do not have SF with your WW until she stops having sex with OM and you have been tested for STDs. Unromantic, but better than a disease. Find out all you can about OM - and expose to his wife. He is almost certainly lying about trying to divorce his wife. All OMs are liars. STUDY, do not just read the case studies on here. I will include a post of my own regarding plan A here to start you off. All blessings to you, and know you CAN RESCUE your marriage using MB ! Bob's cut n' paste new BH summary <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> * Your instinct as a BS is to be angry, indignant, sad, fearful, reactionary etc and no-one could blame you. However actions supporting these emotions will REINFORCE the fantasy in your WS warped mind that you are a worse bet as a life partner than the OP and that the A was justified.
* You may feel 'better' by venting, doing the vengeance dance etc, but this will almost certainly fatally break your relationship.
* Plan A is a carefully calculated response to the fact of an affair that recognises the strengths and weaknesses of the BS position at this time, and who wants to save their M. It is NOT instinctive, in fact it is counter-intuitive, but it works if adhered to. To use MaddyKs analogy :scratching poison ivy rash feels SO GOOD but causes nothing but grief. Instinct does not always help in complex situations.
* FACT a BS cannot directly stop an affair unless they kill or kidnap one or both infidels, and thats not usually recommended by MC
* FACT NEITHER is a BS as helpless as they think they are, and has an armoury of weapons to use. Plan A bundles these for use in a proven strategy.
* Plan A recognises the uncomfortable reality that although the BS is IN NO WAY responsible for the A and that an A is NEVER JUSTIFIED or OK the BS HAS contributed to the marital environment being ripe for an A. This is a major thing to choke down for most BS ( it was for me!) , but its also a major enabler to recovery. Once you know what broke in YOU you can start fixing it.
* Using tools such as exposure the affairs bindings can be exposed to the light. Typically A's only make sense in a by-the-hour highway motel for two hours at a time when only the lying infidels listen to each others fog drivel and 'lets pretend' sex. Exposure to OPs significant other, and carefully targeted family and friends and colleagues forces this shaky, sex-justfying bag of fluff to the scrutiny of the real world. In MOST cases, the bindings disappear like vampires in the sun leaving the infidels 'love affair' looking like the tawdry, cowardly alternative to fixing a flagging marriage that it truly is. And YES exposing is counter intuitive too, but it WORKS !! see now ?
* So when the A is exposed as a shabby thing, Plan A also makes sure that you, the BS have ALREADY and PROACTIVELY recognised the failings in your behaviour and demeanour that led to the marriage flagging and made a start at fixing them. You have also patently disarmed your WS by not being violent, disrespectful, unforgiving nor any of the other things that they expected and FEARED you would be. In fact you raised your game SIGNIFICANTLY as spouse material and they begin to notice it, really.
* WSs fear that with the death of the A, they have no safe place to go, not the OP and certainly not home to face the judgment and wrath of the BS they have hurt do much....except the BS has done everything possible to provide a place of calm safety for the WS to return to. My own FWW thought it was a trick! She couldn't believe the loving and non-judgmental "nest" I'd made for her when she felt she deserved it so little...through Plan A I'm a better Dad than I've been in years, a better listener and more thoughtful of my FWWs needs. Plus MUCH slimmer, fitter and more buff ( GgrrrrOOOWWWLLLLL ! )
* SOME A's bindings are stronger than others and SOME WSs find it harder than others to return home, so plan A may not always work at killing the A and providing a sanctuary for the WS to recover in. Thats when plan B kicks in. Plan B REMOVES the sanctuary , love , forgiveness and support so carefully built and demonstrated in PLAN A from the WS. You do a good plan A and you will be REALLY missed, while OM looks everyday more like the unreliable, lying betrayers they always are.
* See how it works ? By choosing to lay down your righteous indignation in plan A you are in NO WAY a doormat any more than spying for the Allies made brave intelligence folks in WW2 Nazis. You are bravely and deliberately overruling your primal instinct in support of the marriage God gave you and you gave to God and each other.
* STUDY(not just read) SAA, HN/HN , this site, the old heads stories and become aware of the dynamics of affairs. Deconstruct your own situation and apply the principles to it. Knowledge is power. Understand that affairs are JUST LIKE medical conditions, the symptoms, prognosis and cure are all utterly predictable in most cases. Your sitch feels unique BUT IT AIN'T ! THIS STUFF HAS WORKED FOR THOUSANDS OF COUPLES IN EXACTLY YOUR SITCH !
* Finally I have said before that Plan A is a heroes gig and I still think so. For a 'silverback' like me the easy way is to go crashing around hitting people , suing people and making lives bad. Instinct isn't bravery.
Bravery is doing what is needed, however uncomfortable, frightening and counter-intuitive to rebuild a stable loving platform for all involved in the mess of an affair.
Even if Plan A and Plan B doesn't recover your M , it will leave you a much more "examined" person able to move on in life and not repeat the errors that contributed to the problems in the M. I hope I have helped explain my take on Plan A. And to close, Plan A has worked UP THE WAZOO for us so far so I'm not talking theory.
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GREAT post, BP!
MIN,
Listen to this guy, k?
Mark
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Just talked to the OMW and started to compare notes and confirmed several rendezvous's we already suspected. Need some advice on how to proceed in a team effort with the other spouse on how to end this affair.
Currently the OMW is filing for divorce....should I try and tell her to hold off until we can formulate a game plan?
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You could refer the OM's spouse to this site. Hopefully she will hold off on the divorce, because she is being very hasty in her decision. Affairs hardly ever last.
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Not sure you can TELL OMW to do anything, MIN. Believer is right, refer OMW here - I know that any permanent decision made while temporarily reeling from disaster will likely be regretted.
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Currently the OMW is filing for divorce
Did she tell you why she is filing?
Just this affair?
Serial cheater?
Physically abusive?
Etc.
It is obvious, since she is filing, that she has known about this affair, perhaps for some time. 3 months doesn't seem like enough, but it could be a case of "you cheat on me and I'm out of here!"
I suspect there is more to it on her end though. You need data. Talk to her. OM and WS are talking to each other, so get information because you KNOW that WS's lie to each other and blow up reasons to "justify and rationalize" divorcing.
Listen to BP, could info there for you. Evaluate all of it in light of your situation and "arm yourself for battle."
God bless.
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Apparently the OMW and her WH have had a very good marriage for 17 years up until the few months ago when she became of one other person he was texting and emailing prior to becoming involved with my wife. She did mention that he still tells her he loves her and he doesn't want the divorce, but just a few short weeks ago she was suicidal so she thought she needed to file for divorce to protect herself emotionally.
I will refer her here as well for support, but in her state their is a 90 day waiting period for the divorce to be final which was just filed a few days ago. Thanks for everyone's support. This forum and the people in it are amazing!
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Just talked to the OMW and started to compare notes and confirmed several rendezvous's we already suspected. Need some advice on how to proceed in a team effort with the other spouse on how to end this affair.
Currently the OMW is filing for divorce....should I try and tell her to hold off until we can formulate a game plan? My OWH became my best friend in the early days of discovery. We also proceeded in a team approach. One of the major ways we did this was ongoing sharing of information. We both had access to "compartmentalized" versions of events from our respective WS's and kids. Things continue to happen - not just past events but ongoing events - that can be headed off if only you know about them in time. I would encourage any BS to befriend their OP's spouse as this information is invaluable. As for influencing your OMW's decision to file for divorce, you probably can't make a final decision for him but I'm sure she'd be willing to hold back for a period of time. My OWH and I "timed" our actions according to one another's needs/requests on a number of occassions (and still do as he is currently fighting a custody battle with OW). I was cautioned (here and other places) about getting into a relationship with OWH. It is true that in sharing the same corner of h****, we felt a close bond and often provided each other with support. But we did discuss this upfront and agreed to keep a business-like relationship between us. There has been no problem of that nature as a result.
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Please tell the OM's wife about this site. Both of these marriages sound very salvageable. The two of you just need a plan to end the affair.
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After confronting my WS the day before Thanksgiving and implementing Plan A, her reaction was callous and stated she wanted to just end things and get a divorce. I confronted her immediately prior to our plans to go out of state to go see her family for the holidays and told her I wasn't going to go, but wanted with all of my heart to work on our marriage together and save our family.
Within a few hours she sent me a couple of text messages from the highway with small talk which indicated she had calmed down. She then called and left a message on the phone later that night letting me know her and the baby arrived safely. The next morning she sent me a text message stating that she realizes I am trying to distance myself, but that things aren't the same without me. She then calls me and says that when she gets home she wants to talk because regardless what happens between us she doesn't want us to be enemies. Over the last couple of days have been more informal text messages and brief light hearted conversations.
In regards to Plan A, she is going to want to talk when she gets home and I need some recommendations on how to handle this conversation. I don't believe she is going to tell me she is ending the affair, but simply try and apologize for the way she reacted so callously and state that she just needs some time. Should I continue a "carrot" Plan A while keeping my feelings guarded OR should I continue with a plan of exposure of this affair? If she states that she is not going to end her affair how should I properly respond in the parameters of keeping with Plan A?
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A very smart, slim, handsome and dapper man with incredible wisdom posted this to you earlier <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Be calm, and try to choke down the panic and hurt you feel. Then say to your WW something like this I told my FWW :
" I want very much to work on our marriage, as I recognize that although I'm not responsible for your infidelity, I played a part in the state of our marriage.
However before we can work on our marriage, the affair must end and you must never gain have contact with the man.
When you see him or contact him you knowingly twist a knife in my heart AND you deliberately prevent work on our M recovery from beginning.
I will not physically stop you from continuing the affair, because I love you and would not have you SHACKLED to our marriage, but instead staying within by choice. Just know that you are deeply and deliberately hurting and humiliating someone who loves you very much by contacting the OM."
Then, whatever her response, hunker down to making your home and your life a welcoming place for her to return to.
Protect your finances NOW. Do not have SF with your WW until she stops having sex with OM and you have been tested for STDs. Unromantic, but better than a disease. Work out what your personal boundaries are and let your WW know using words similar to those above. Do not be needy. Move on in ALL but fidelity. Plan A with loving detachment. Study. No amount of "bumping" your question on here will mean any magic spell will be advised to you MIN. Its takes guts , patience and smarts to end and affair and get your baby back. Read the brilliant advice I got when I was in your position and worse and apply it. Consider counselling with Steve Harley. All blessings.
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Bob....just spent most of the day going over your toolkit and you are an inspiration.
One quick question from a newbie to a vet....considering the circumstances I have outlined in this thread is there anything productive that can come out of contacting OM and what should be said if so? Thanks in advance.
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MIN i am a newbie as well.... and let me tell you contacting the OP is and can be a terrible mistake. It is an emotionally charged state to begin with and in my case the OW has nothing but a trash mouth. SHe started out by saying hun i didn't f your husband he f me......ect... it went on and on and all she wanted me to know was that she thought i was a psycho and unfit mother ( i have a 2 month old at home). No matter what they have to say to you isn't of any help....Their opinion of you is based on your WS info that they have provided to the OP in their converstations. In my recent expierence it just made me mad and more hurt to know that the information my WS told this OP no matter how limited and squed has made someone out there hate me by not having all the facts. It will only give your WS and OM more ammo to talk about and converse about. In my case the OW kinda hung herself by saying what she did and the next day is when he told her to forget he existed that he needed to decided if he wanted to work on his marriage or not and he could not do that while talking to her any more.
i know i'm a vet but i don't think talking to him, as much as you would like will be benificial in the long run
Truth can stand on it's own two feet....A lie needs support....FRM
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After contacting the OMW 3 days ago she told her WS that we had talked and I was planning on relaying the inconsistencys and lies to my WS. He has requested an open marriage from his wife to allow him the freedom to see my WS, but has been telling my WS that he is in love with her and doesn't want his wife anymore. Of course my WS is still giving him the benefit of the doubt although she is seeing some real issues. I also asked my WS if she thought that their marriage would be in the trouble it was in if she was involved with the OM. She then acknowledged that it probably wouldn't be and is doing some real soul searching right now.
I know her and I would have a very strong chance at recovering if the OM was out of the picture, but he has such a strong hold on her emotionally and is filling her head full of lies. My WS also told me that she asked the OM if there was even a small chance that he thought that he and his wife could reconcile, because she would never talk to him again if she thought was causing the issues between him and his wife. Of course you know what OM said and she is leaning toward believing it. I really believe if I could get her in front of a counselor that an independent 3rd party could educate her on the power of the addictive drug they are both on and get her to see the light.
I know my wife very well and if she knew in her own mind for sure that she was the cause of breaking up someone's family she would run for the hills, but he is telling her that they were going to get divorced anyway and that their marriage was horrible. OMW's story of course is the exact opposite of his.
Need some feedback on what I can continue to do to get my WS out of this fog. I am Plan A'ing like a champion, but everytime I take a step forward get knocked back 2 steps with the OM's lies.
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I would try to scrape the money together for a call to the Harleys. Ask your wife if she would be willing to talk to them on the phone. They can do in one session what other counselors do in ten.
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Bob....just spent most of the day going over your toolkit and you are an inspiration.
One quick question from a newbie to a vet....considering the circumstances I have outlined in this thread is there anything productive that can come out of contacting OM and what should be said if so? Thanks in advance. MIN I investigated OM thoroughly. I discovered he held many sporting charitable positions as for example child protection officer.I discovered he had a sideline in illegal DVD and CD copies, along with chipped cable boxes. I found out names and addresses of a dozen or more senior officers of the agencies her worked with. I contacted OM and told him enough of my evidence and info to be credible and told him if he ever threatened my family again I would unleash all that to the authorities, press and his son. This was in addition to exposure to his GF and some other stuff. I wouldn't bother contacting OM to reason with him or threaten him. He is unable to recognise truth right now. if you can find out dirt on him OTHER than his adultery, do so and then we can talk about using it as a lever.
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Okay as of last Wednesday I began Plan A along with detaching with love. I spoke with the OMW over the weekend and she found out about it and this has now caused turmoil in the affair. She was very mad about me contacting the OMW and ironically enough stated that I had no right to call her. I told her very calmly that why can't I speak to his wife if you are speaking to her husband and continued to tell her I wasn't going to apologize for fighting for our marriage. The rest of the weekend went pretty well with small talk and text messages, but last night when she got home I could tell something was wrong with her as she was once again in a bad mood. Apparently she stewed all night and this morning she got upset all over again for me talking to his wife, snooping, saying that she made it clear in our last counselor's appointment that we could date other people. I then said if that is all true then why are you and the OM continually lying about seeing and talking to each other. Bad move I know....serious LB. She then stated that we need to just get a divorce so I don't feel like I have a right to her anymore. I have a feeling this is just fogspeak trying to rid some of the guilt, but not sure.
Here is the current situation. My WS believes that the OM was going to be divorcing his wife anyway and no longer loves her. After speaking with OMW she states that she is the one who filed and he begs her not to get a divorce and tells her all the time that he loves her, but wants an open marriage. Every time I try to tell this to my WS she believes only what he is telling her and not what he is telling his wife.
Should I continue Plan A with detachment or should I continue to try and convince my WS of the truth. She has stated over and over that if she thought that the OM wanted both her and his wife she would immediately end this and leave their family alone. Thoughts and advice needed.
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Do the OMW and the OM email each other at times?? If so get her to talk about his request to have a open marriage in the email. Then you would have proof. Just a thought!
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