I still think this is just another garden variety affair. The only difference is that your wife met OW before she met another man.

Expose the affair, and go by the MB principles. I don't care of wife's parents speak another language, or where they live. And yes, your wife will be furious.

I WOULD talk to an attorney and find out if your wife living in an adulterous relationship will make any difference in custody of your daughter.

Other than that, figure out why your wife fell in love with you in the first place, and start acting like you did then. Affairs always end, and this one will too.

It sounds like you have been a good husband, supporting her in going to school, helping your brother. Hang in there.

Your carrot is working just fine if you have eliminated lovebusters and shown her you are WILLING to meet her needs. Most waywards will not allow you to meet their needs because they are in a state of withdrawal. Plan A is meant to show them that you are WILLING to meet those needs in the future.


I do not know what she does so I don't know if exposure is warranted, but I will say that exposure is effective REGARDLESS of the reaction of the employer. The point of exposure is to EXPOSE, which causes conflict in the affair. Affairs thrive on secrecy, so exposure ruins the secrecy. If the employer does take action is just unexpected GRAVY.


Good, that's a consequence of her affair that she can only blame herself for. It sounds like it might not be in your DD's best interest to even be around her unsupervised anyway.


No one ever said any such thing. Exposure will hasten its death. Some affairs end when they are exposed, more often they don't end immediately. However, exposure is ruinous to affairs and is like chemotherapy to cancer. Most fall apart in under 2 years if exposed.


Get the truth out to them ALL. Her claim that she "made a decision long ago" is irrelevant. The truth is that she is NOW abandoning her marriage and her child for an affair.


This is exactly where you are headed if you DON'T expose. She may get mad and file, but your marriage is much more likely to end in divorce if you don't, because she will get over the anger of your exposure, she won't get over the AFFAIR that you are PROTECTING and ENABLING. Let her file. So what? Doesn't mean you are divorced. Often filing for divorce and seeing how bad it will be is the wake up call many need.


A lawyer knows nothing about saving marriage, they only know how to pursue an amicable divorce. So, if you are looking for an amicable divorce, you should follow a lawyers advice. If you want the best chance of saving your marriage, then take DR HARLEYS advice.

Before I go ahead w/ exposure, I really think I need to talk w/ a lawyer as well as the Harleys to cover all the bases.
Interestingly, all the people I know in my personal life, including my friends and family that knows about my situation, do not recommend exposure b/c of how it will cause further damage to the relationship... These are people I know and trust... They may not know about the MB principles, but does anything my friends and family say mean nothing and are they ALL completely wrong?
In MC, we did talk about why my wife fell in love w/ me. When we first met/started dating, one of the main connections we had was that we were both alone w/o any family in the US. So, we understood how each other felt about being alone. I took good care of her throughout this time when she was alone. I was there for her. The other main reason is because of our mutual love we share for our daughter. As you can see, none of the above has changed. We both still do not have any family in the US (my bro doesn't really count). I am still the father of our daughter and I love her unconditionally. I am still there for my wife and am willing to take care of WW for the rest of my life if she will let me.
The problem is the reasons why she fell in love w/ me in the beginning are no longer enough as the reasons for her to stay in love w/ me...
What she found in OW that is different from me (other than the obvious) is someone who truly understands her from a woman's perspective (similar cultural background, interests, personalities, way of thinking, etc.). OW also showed her the kind of care that I showed my wife when she was still in love w/ me. In her mind, only one person can fill that role in her life at a time. Ironically, she thinks she would be cheating on OW if she lets me take care of her in the same way, but she doesn't think she is cheating on me when she lets OW take care of her in this way. She thinks that b/c she already fell out of love w/ me when she met OW, but she is currently in love w/ OW. The other thing I have against me is that WW says she has had a lot of bad experiences in the past w/ me, which in her mind wipes out any and all good experiences we have had together. This "baggage" (her word) of these bad experiences will stay w/ her forever and she will never be able to get rid of it as long as she is w/ me. By being w/ me, she will be constantly reminded of this "baggage"... Therefore she can never be happy by being w/ me in a romantic way ever again. She wants to start fresh (whether it is w/ someone else or alone) w/o any of this "baggage"... This is the reason why ending the A may not have the same effect on saving the M as in other situations.
I know everyone says that A's always end. But since neither WW nor OW consider their relationship to be an A (perception is reality, right?), does that still apply anymore (I'm not talking about the type of natural death where the relationship will end 8-10 years from now b/c they will be bored w/ each other by then)?

Unfortunately, they have no degree in psychology and know nothing about saving marriages. Dr. Harley, on the other hand, has saved thousands of marriages and knows what he is talking about.

Even so, folks have given you great advice here, you are free to take it or leave it.

You have just given yourself EXCELLENT advice!

There are people on these boards who have made errors during exposure, and wound up with serious issues regarding slander and libel, and a lawyer can guide you around those problems. A lawyer can also help you determine whether you are at a point that you need to protect yourself financially.

But best of all, will be to consult the Harleys and have THEM help you devise a plan for you and your wife to reconstruct your love. You are ONE SHARP GUY!

And if you have a circle of friends you can rely on through these difficult times, you will be in strong stead.

Pure bullcrap. NAME ONE.

Move on in for the kill, shark....

"They may not know about the MB principles, but does anything my friends and family say mean nothing and are they ALL completely wrong?"

Yes, they are all completely wrong.

iamlost, even if you don't take Marriage Builders advice here from experienced posters, I would strongly advice against taking the advice of SS, who is a board troll that preys on wounded MEN here. She knows nothing about MB and is only here to harm and encourage you to NOT take MB advice, because she knows you will sink if you don't. She smells your fear....

iamlost, ask SS to name ONE SINGLE case of a person exposing to his MIL that resulted in:


SS, now you are not only misleading this man, you are LYING to him. Why is it so important to you to mislead him?

Dear IAM,

ML personally dislikes me, and regrettably this results in a bit of a threadjack here regarding problematic exposure.

But yes, there is definitely a WRONG way to go about exposure that can in fact weaken your position in the future, and put you at risk. Exposure should not be a sloppy, haphazard tell-one-and-all-whatever-you're-thinking experience. It should be like a strategic air-strike, aimed at targeting those who are most influential in the life of your spouse, with correct information, put the right way.

There are in fact many MBers who have done exposure the wrong way and put themselves in a fix. For instance, here is Ryan's thread, in which badly performed exposure literally became a FEDERAL CASE:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...part=1&vc=1

In this particular situation, all three in the "triangle" had top-level security clearances at government positions in the Washington DC area (if I remember correctly). Ryan followed MBers advice to expose-expose-expose, but without qualified guidance (eg the Harleys), he did it improperly and wound up being contacted by his own employer and warned that his conduct might be construed as extortion/blackmail, with potential negative consequences to HIM.

Subsequently, he continued "exposing" to, and contacting, the OMW -- even after she had asked him to stop. But the boards told him expose-expose-expose. Finally, she was threatening to file some kind of RO I believe ...

The very best thing you can do is get PROFESSIONAL ADVICE, and follow the PROFESSIONAL's PLAN.

It is NEVER good advice to get caught up in the thrall of know-nothings who are total strangers on a board. If you can possibly afford it, call the Harleys. You might get yourself a few good ideas on the boards, but do not use this as a springboard for an entire life plan!

[

I don't know you, so I could not possibly "personally dislike" you. What I dislike is that you prey on new MEN on this forum in an attempt to mislead them by capitalizing on their fears. You know nothing about MB and are a wayward wife yourself. Your recommendations are always counter to MB principles and only benefit the AFFAIREES.

SS, I am still awaiting evidence of ONE CASE of exposure to a MIL, or anyone else that resulted in "serious issues regarding slander and libel." I would like ONE NAME. LETS HAVE IT. YOU ARE LYING TO THIS MAN.

The case above does not make your case because it did not result in "serious issues regarding slander and libel."

Nor does the idle threat of a RO mean anything; most exposures bring threats from the exposees, it is an expectation. But you wouldn't know that, because you know nothing about exposure or about Plan A, for that matter.


Dr. Harley's advice was posted ADVOCATING EXPOSURE and he is a PROFESSIONAL. Dr. Harley ADVOCATES exposure. *YOU* continually advocate against it.

And you have yet to answer my question:

Do you even OWN a Harley book? Have you ever read one?

Just wait a deep fried minute here.

First of all: Mel is not "helping me with my Plan D." I am NOT IN Plan D. I am in Plan A, about to go to B.

Secondly: Yes, I exposed the affair at work. And they took action against Mr. Gray. This is just one reason he is mad at me right now. He is ON NOTICE at work. If he gets fired, it will be because of his affair, not because I let his employers know what was going on. Fact is, even if I hadn't exposed, his coworkers were getting sick and tired of them carrying on at work. It is inevitable that this would have been brought to the attention of HR.

Do I wish I had waited? NO.

Third: All of the kids are extremely upset and disgusted with their father right now for trying to break up our family. They are behind me 100%.

Fourth: I was in Plan A with no stick for a long time. Then Stick entered. I am still working Plan A even though Mr. Gray is not communicating with me right now. I am sending him updates and reports about what is going on in the family. Not every day, but maybe every few days he gets a long email or a short email. It's the best I can do right now and as soon as he comes here for his things he gets the PBL on the way out.

I discussed the MB principles and what I was going to do to try and save my marriage with my attorney the very day we met and I have his full support. He has no problem with delaying as much as possible. I did not want to file. Of course not! But you have to protect yourself from people who are exhibiting absolutely no common sense and taking no responsibility for taking care of the mundane but important things like paying the bills and so forth.

I love my Jonesy. I am going to kill Mr. Gray so Jonesy will be able to live. If I don't, Mr. Gray is going to kill Jonesy.

Sometimes it takes tough love. We had to do that with DS25 and he's turned out to be a mighty fine young man instead of what we feared...that he'd be in and out of jail and in trouble all of the time.

Well, tough love is here for my WS now. And I ain't givin' up!

The only good advice that SS has ever given. [after she told this man not to expose at all] And here is the advice of Dr. Willard Harley, a PROFESSIONAL:

"A two year affair that's been brought out into the open is like cancer that is spreading throughout the body. While some people survive even that form of cancer, the prognosis is very bad. You're in a situation where it may be time to let go.

But remember to expose your husband's affair to the light of day. Don't hide it from anyone, including your children. Transparency is like chemotherapy. Hopefully, there is someone who is talking to your husband about the tragic decisions he's making, and can influence him to change course."

Best wishes
Willard F. Harley, Jr.


"While most affairs die a natural death in less than two years, there are some that take much longer to die. That's one of the primary reasons that my first rule in surviving an affair is to never see or talk to the lover again -- even if the affair seems to have died a natural death. An affair can rekindle after it seems to be over. And to guarantee complete separation between the unfaithful spouse and the lover, extraordinary precautions must be taken, such as providing radical accountability and transparency. In many cases, I've encouraged couples I've counseled to change jobs or even move to another state to help create permanent separation.

Another suggestion I make to a couple struggling to restore their marriage after one of them had an affair is to make the affair public. Everyone should know what happened -- children, relatives, friends, and especially the children and spouse of the lover -- so that the affair is exposed to the light of day. What often makes affairs appealing is that it is done in secret. Most affairs become very unappealing once everyone knows about it.

So whether an affair is a one night stand, or has been going on for years, the basic rule for ending them are the same -- extraordinary precautions to guarantee permanent separation. But I will admit that the precautions used for long-term affairs are usually more extraordinary than those used for short-term affairs. I've helped many spouses overcome affairs that have lasted over ten years, but none of them have been easy."

The very best thing you can do is get PROFESSIONAL ADVICE, and follow the PROFESSIONAL's PLAN. That is what I have posted for you, iam.

You need to listen to Mel, iam. She knows what she is talking about.

IAM-- These statements/advice by SSB about exposure are BS. Below is a letter that Ryan posted TODAY to the OM (this after his supposedly WRONG exposure) (Hope you don't mind Ryan)


IAM- Start exposing now! See an attorney ONLY to protect your financial interest and the interest of your child. If that means filing a divorce action to get "temporary orders" then so be it. As the filer (petitioner) you can always go back and nonsuit. I did.

Sitting back in fear is not helping you. Listening to people like SSB will HARM you. Listen to the vets here -- who have lived, practiced and SEEN good results from following MB! Call the Harleys ASAP and get a plan to SAVE your marriage.

IAM:

All of these people are right. You need to expose this, and I wouldn't wait one day.

The reason why you can't take the advice of your friends and family is because this is not there area of expertise. Most people would not recognize a WS when they saw one in the midst of an A as the same person.

If a nuclear scientist told you to put some thing down because it was was radioactive, would you do it? Take the advice of people that have been through this and know.