I generally post over on the recovery forum although the deeper my H and I get in to "recovery" the less I think I want to recover.

This past week, OW attempted to contact my H via cell phone on 5 seperate occassions. She did the same thing this time last year, which continuted off and on for about 6 months. All of these attempts were reported to me by my H within a 1/2 hr of occuring.

Just knowing the little biotch is still out there is enough to put me over the edge.

In defense of my H, he is being transparent and states he wants nothing to do with OW. The reoccuring contact, according to him - is simply an annoyance.

So- what is the problem? I appear to have what most BS's would like. A spouse that is out of the fog, home and trying to rebuild.

The problem is - the more time that goes by - the less I feel like I want to rebuild anything with him.

So, my question is, good MBers - does anyone else struggle with feelings like this?

We are 17 months into recovery.

Hi Kim,

I'm sorry I'm not familiar with your sitch, but I see that you registered just after I did.


Can you change all phone numbers? Should you send another hard copy NC letter via snail mail or certified? Our OW thought I had written the emailed NC letter, but when WH wrote it in his handwriting she could recognize, she got the picture and agreed to say 'no' (and inform me) if WH ever got in touch with her in any way ever again. (I learned this when I stupidly tried to be her friend until 3 months after D-Day #4.)

If you need to rebuild your love banks, I suggest you read Dr. Harley's Fall in Love, Stay in Love. As both your love banks fill, your desire to rebuild your R and M will grow, too. At least it has for us and we were virtually strangers under the same roof for years. (Sordid story in my sig line.)

Best wishes,

Ace

EXTRAORDINARY PRECAUTIONS are absolutely necessary during RECOVERY...Dr. Harley even recommends moving away..which is exactly what we are planning on doing..AFTER FOUR YEARS...

She will definitely come looking..is what Steve Harley told me and he was right...

We changed ALL NUMBERS right away...

Just like the DRUG DEALERS... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Hello Ace

Thanks for your reply. I am familiar with your situation here. I tend not to post much myself but Ive been rooting for you for months now. Im glad to see that overall, things are going well for you.

We've read all the Harley books, and counsel with Steve once per week since this past May.

We have completed love bank inventories, emotional need questionaires - you name it.

We've read (mostly me) just about every book out there.

So, whats the problem? I just dont think I want to be in this M anymore. SO much damage has been done. SO much pain, lies. I dont see him the same way anymore. Im not even sure who he is.

I think the real problem, thanks to Frozen's thread about freeloaders v. renters v. buyers is that I am, much to my chagrin a renter. I ask for things from my H often and he promises me the world and delivers... well - alot less. IF he delivers at all.

So, in top of all the A stuff, which is formidable - we are now dealing with our dysfunctional dynamic. and it is not working.
For the first year of our recovery - things were GREAT. Better than they had ever been. Better than we were when we were first together. I realized it was because I was jumping through hoops meeting every EN my H had, and asking for nothing in return . I was just so grateful he hadnt left me and the kids.

I sold myself out. And now I dont think I even want to be here anymore.

And this is because the OW tried to contact him?

Hi Mimi

You are perfectly right, I know. In our situation, a NC conversation took place and I saw an email ( which I didnt approve of as it was somewhat nebulous in meaning but I never said a word in protest). I hadnt yet found MB ( this was April of 06) and was afraid I would push WH away. What a wimp I was!! I loathe what I was back then.

We never did change our cell numbers. In my case, I didnt want to change my cell # as I wanted OWH to be able to contact me if he had info. He used to do this from time to time. Feb of this year was the last I heard from him, as OW was calling my H then and I contacted OWH to let him know his "wife" was calling my H.

I asked my H to change his cell number and he said he would but never did. I have this hoorible pattern of asking for things, he doesnt do it and then I drop it but storm internally. I know that is a big part of our problem.

My H takes the initiative on nothing and promises to do much. No follow through. I think that is why I am just so sick of this whole mess and want out.

Thanks so much for posting.

Peace to you.

Because the OW tried ot contact him? No. I dont think that is entirely why I am at this place Ive come to.

I do think it has a *bit* to do with it. But, it is much deeper than that.

Steve H did tell me every tiem there is contact of any kind it sets you back to day one. I dont know. Perhaps that is true. Do you think so?

SO......YOUR LOVE BANK IS EMPTY. If you've been everywhere that MB goes (books, tapes, SH counseling, etc.) it sounds like your realization that you're a Renter is what might be robbing your love bank.

Yeah, it takes work. One of my fears is that my FWH is working so hard that he will tire like it seems you have...but you're the BS. What's wrong with this picture?

I see one thing different from our sitches. My WH was on strike 5 after 4 D-days. I'm the one who said HE would be leaving if he would/could not respect me. I picture myself OK alone. You feared abandonment. That is a huge difference. (Of course, I have no children at home either so I cannot relate to your fears.)

But I can relate to your pain, and I'm sorry.

Thanks for rooting for me/us and for your kind words. Our IRL MC is helping us overcome our dysfunctional dynamic, as you called it, and it's working for now.

Best wishes as you choose your next phase of your life.

Ace

Recovery is uncharted territory, and very, very difficult to ride out. Unwanted contact from OP simply makes a difficult situation even more so.

If you are convinced these calls are unsolicited, and your H is honest about the annoyance, then stay on Harley's MB program to continue your recovery. Make sure you are spending the 15 hours a week together, and doing all you can to meet each other's needs.

Seventeen months is a relatively short time in recovery with the norm being considered as 2 years. In my case it was closer to 3 years. Those days like you are experiencing today become fewer and further between, but it seems to take forever, and both parties need to do their share for the recovery.

Consider getting your H a new cell phone number, or, at least block the OW's number so he cannot receive them. If they are truly annoying to him, this should be a reasonable request of your H.

Thanks, Ace.

I guess you are right. My love bank, while not yet empty, is pretty close to being so.

I cant make my H meet my needs. I can only tell him what they are and meet his. You are also right that I am working so hard that Ive worn myself out.

My H, if you ask him- wil tell you that he works his butt off on us every day. I think that from his persepctive he does. But to me. not so much. What I see? I see him doing just enough to keep me around. I think it feels to him like he is working his butt off because it is way more than what he has ever done.

Case in point:

Painful dialogue last night. The result was H saying that he "would do ABSOLUTELY ANYTHING to help me heal. He would do ANY penance to "make up" for this particularly indefensible act.

I replied that I believed he would do anything, as long as it was within his comfort zone to do so. That I have never asked him to stretch and do something that made him uncomfortable. I used the example of our conversation. I said "What if I asked you to email all your friends, family and co workers and tell them about your A ( they do not know) and this particular incident. That would be outside your comfort zone and I bet you wouldnt do it". My H looked at me blankly - didnt reply and said "What do you want me to do? I do everything for you. You wanted NC - you got NC. You want me to be transparent, honest, open. Im all those things. You wanted me to recommit to you - Ive recommited to you. I do all the things you ask me".

I was f-ing incredulous. He totally sandbagged me and changed the subject. Made it sound as if he should get a prize for being.... well - a husband.

Is it me?

Hey Kim:


I understand from your posts that you feel that your H is not meeting your needs, and that you are frustrated and resentful becuase you believe that you have been working tirelessly to meet his. With all of the Harley counseling that you have done, I would guess that you have already been through this step, but I will ask anyway...What are your top ENs and what attempts has your FWH made to meet those needs?

Have you gone through the Harley exercises recently? What does your FWH describe as his efforts to meet those needs? Is he trying to meet them and missing the mark by not doing the right actions enough, or are his attempts using the wrong actions, or does he agree that he is doing too little to meet your needs and refuses to do more?

You also posted that you are meeting all of your H's ENs...does he agree that you are meeting all of his ENs?



If he believes he is working his butt off, and you are getting little value from his efforts to 'just enough' keep you around, have you both recently detailed in quantifiable terms, how you would like your ENs met?

For example, if your #1 EN is Conversation, did you tell him that you need Conversation every day, or have you said that you need 1 hour of conversation per day? Big difference in perspective btw male and female. Conversation every day to many guys could mean "How was your day, Honey?...Oh, that's nice...Please pass the biscuits."


I can certainly understand that you want a grand gesture from your H for penance, to 'make up' for destroying you, but combined with your frustrations of not feeling that your ENs are being met and the lopsidedness of your M, it seems to me that your idea of confessing the A to everyone way after the fact is more like part punishment-part "how much do you love me."

I ask you this..."What do you believe would be beneficial to your marriage for your H to do the full confession thing now?" Would this gesture just be an uncomfortable thing to your H that by completing it would 'prove' his love for you by stepping outside of his comfort zone?

If, when you really think about it, this confession is mainly a prove your love thing by seeing if your H is willing to suffer negative consequences, then couldn't you come up with another idea that is outside your H's comfort zone and would generate positive benefits for your M? Something like using all of his bonus money this year for a special vacation fo the two of you?, or both you and H getting involved in a new activity together that you really want to do, but would maybe be a little outside of his comfort zone...maybe ballroom dancing...joining a theater group together...etc??

Just some thoughts.

LoBoy

Hi there LoBoy

Thanks so much for posting. I check in on your thread every now and again. Im glad to see you keep fighting the good fight. I admire you for continuing to work on your own personal recovery. It is truly admirable!


I should clarify. I do NOT want my H to admit or "confess" to anything. What I said was purely hypothetical and he knew that. It was meant to illustrate a point which was "You SAY you would do anything but what you really mean is you would do anything inside your comfort zone. Here is a scenario that would be outside your comfort zone. Would you do it?" His response was to deflect everything back to me on all the things he DOES do and never addressed what I just said. Believe me, I have ZERO desire for my H to humiliate himself publically. There is NO benefit in that.

I should also say that the only "penance" I want from my H is for him to work on our M. I want no punishment for him. Does that make more sense? Sorry if I was vague.

RE: the emotional needs? My H and I fill out each others emotional needs questionaires weekly. In short - I fill out his for him, so he can be sure my needs arebeing met from my perspective and vice versa. So, I can safely say I am meeting his needs as it is filled with checks. Every night, we have a conversation to review how the day could have gone. I tell him how my needs could be better met. He agrees and then the next day..... nothing. Nothing gets addressed.

My H basically spends most of his time telling me what he thinks I want to hear instead of being honest. I cant MAKE him do any of this.

And so - Im wasting my time, I fear.

OT- whatever happened to your music thread?? Tried to fid it the other day. More stuff to post.

It SEEMS from what YOU report that he's TRYING though. He's doing a lot that EVEN my H didn't do early on and we've been happily recovered for 4 years...

My H refused further counseling with Steve...never SAID he's do ANYTHING...WOW...filling out the EN Questionnaires WEEKLY...I don't think my H did it ONCE...

Bramblerose just posted something on the Enabling Thread that addresed this first thought.

And I realized that my false expectations were what fueled my insecurities that led to our nasty challenge which led to my Beyond THE BEFORE poem...have you seen it?

I realized that I was expecting too much. Are you expecting too much? I also took his efforts forgranted. Are you praising your H for the efforts he is making? When I praise my DH, it makes him want to make more positive efforts.

Glad you're posting here, Kim. Hope something I or others say can help you with your perspective if indeed it needs to be adjusted.

Ace

"Painful dialogue last night. The result was H saying that he "would do ABSOLUTELY ANYTHING to help me heal. He would do ANY penance to "make up" for this particularly indefensible act."

I'm not sure if this is a fairly common problem with WS's, or just with WH's... or just with certain WH's...?

However it did remind me of my WXH. He would say/promise ANYTHING in order to get me to agree to giving him another chance BUT he rarely did anything he promised he'd do.

And when I finally did start requiring proof from him that he really did or would do what he promised he only did what was promised for recovery with a LOT of resentment and even accusing me of 'forcing' him to say and do things he really didn't want to!

You see the problem at the bottom of this attitude is entitlement. Since he felt entitled to have me in his life minus doing anything for recovery, anything he did have to say or do in order to convince me to stay around felt like too much being required of him. Apparently he even lied to me and made promises he never intended to keep just because I 'made' him... Again, since he felt entitled to me, anything he had to say or do to keep me was in his mind manipulation on my part, so he did not feel like he was doing anything wrong when he lied to me for recovery.

Maybe this is at least partly behind the way some WH's fail to follow through on the promises made for recovery?

Also, I noticed that the effort he would put into the adulteries was usually a lot more than what he would put into our marriage recovery. He would go all out trying to impress the latest adulteress and her family/friends. But he would basically go back into lazy sloucher mode when he'd return for recovery. I honestly started to think that the recoveries between adulteries were just because he was too broke and tired from expending himself on the last adultery so he came back to me for a rest!

IMHO NO WOMAN wants to feel she's been had cheap and/or that the man she's with would give a lot more for an OW than he would for her! Why WH's don't get that and therefore deliver more of what they promise for recovery is something I don't understand.

It apparently is pretty common for the WH to complain that he's already doing ALL he can for recovery... regardless of how little he actually is doing and how much MORE he put into the adultery. They just don't seem to get it and the BW usually just ends up settling for what little the WH does give.

Maybe you should try to discuss this more specifically with your WH during a mc session? I don't mean meeting EN's in general, but about his slacker attitude and only wanting to do the bare minimum he has to, and about not doing what he says he will do?

I'm missing something though, MM. How is he having a SLACKER ATTITUDE? Counseling with Steve Harley is a MAJOR STEP, I think. Does Steve see your H as being this way, Kim?

You asked that he be willing to sacrifice. This is your renter making selfish demands.

This is why you are spinning your wheels.

How about you say to him instead: Honey, it destroys me when she contacts you. It brings back all of my hurt and pain. What I really need is to ensure she can never reach us again. What do you think about changing our cell phone numbers?

Hi Kim:

Sorry that I am just getting back to you, very busy the last couple of days.

Thanks for checking up on my thread. It's not very exciting, but it helps just to write about what's going on in my mind whether or not I get a lot of responses.

From all of the work you have described, it sounds like you guys are following through with a lot of good work to have a successful recovery. When you and H have your daily discussions, I am curious to know what your H says about missing the mark every day in meeting your ENs, and what reason (read - excuse) H says about his lack of effort each day to do the specifics?

I am really surprised that Steve Harley does not seem to be holding H accuntable during your weekely sessions.


OT – I bumped the music thread on the Recovery forum…look forward to listening to your new additions.

Thanks,

LoBoy

Is this true? I thought the whole premise for starting this thread was due to contact by OW.

I would go with BR here. I think contact is killing your LB.

Filling out EN's questionairs WEEKLY, counseling, being open and honest, transparent. These are all good things. I think the contact is negating all that good, for you.